The tawdry female bosses are tiresome, and we could do with more male fanservice.

Randomly found this and thought it was hilarious. Maybe they can make him a boss if they ever do a VII crossover:
https://i.imgur.com/g2n1Bf5.jpg

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Originally Posted by Joven

Randomly found this and thought it was hilarious. Maybe they can make him a boss if they ever do a VII crossover:
https://i.imgur.com/g2n1Bf5.jpg

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I have no objections.. Though I worry his junk is unnaturally and literally steamy.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I have no objections.. Though I worry his junk is unnaturally and literally steamy.

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I kinda thought it was a lens flare or something

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Originally Posted by Joven

I kinda thought it was a lens flare or something

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Beware the shining crotch of Bee-Sephiroth!

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Beware the shining crotch of Bee-Sephiroth!

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Its brilliance will leave you dazed and open for attack.

https://i.imgur.com/eHp7d2I.jpg

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Originally Posted by Joven

...

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I know some people ask a butt slider (and since it has been asked for women it would be unfair that men don't have) but... here it is a very weird big butt :p

Though the antennae are the most disturbing part :D

I always did find it funny that all of the female Primals/Auspices/Lightwardens are basically just "Human woman, but with slightly different features" while the males are all inhuman monsters.

The biggest exceptions would be Garuda, who is based on a human woman anyway, and Tesleen I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

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Not really surprising, it is all a metamphore.

Goddesses are a metaphore of the Nature, beautiful and dangerous when men beasts are a metaphore for primitive bestiality.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Randomly found this and thought it was hilarious. Maybe they can make him a boss if they ever do a VII crossover:
https://i.imgur.com/g2n1Bf5.jpg

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Finally this thread is going somewhere!

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

I know some people ask a butt slider (and since it has been asked for women it would be unfair that men don't have) but... here it is a very weird big butt :p

Though the antennae are the most disturbing part :D

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Instead of a bubble butt he's got a bumble butt.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

And tell me, how can you be certain that you are not the one indoctrinated by our current culture?

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Thousands and thousands of years of documented Patriarchy in 99% of all society.

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

What a joke. Neo-feminists are the first who clame genders exist when it is time to attack feminity or masculinity as soon as it serves their purpose.

Women must do more craftmanships!
Women must have access to scientific studies!

The problem is... Sweden case do the demonstration that when they have a "free" choice, in cultures where women are the less influenced by stereotypes, they will choose this kind of activities neo-feminist accuse "patricarchy" to call feminine and to "lock" women in.
In Asia, it is the whole opposite. Many women who have access to studies at high level will choose sciences and to be engineer.

Based on neo-feminist claming, this kind of thing is just totally impossible and shouldn't exist/happen.

What you call "objectivity" against "patriarchal" construction IS a construction too and it's not even half objective. It is just another biais, a non assumed misandrie. Neo-feminists just want to play some kind of amazon game but don't assume it.

You are just playing with words to protect your unobjective militancy.

There is nothing to construct or to deconstruct, just to let people choose what they want based on their tastes (as soon as they respect laws, of course). Nothing more, nothing less.

The worst, in fine, they clame they want to imitate men in what they have worst : these damn stupid ego games. These games, as a man, I've always despised since they are most of time only utterly plain stupid.

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I think you are conflating Neo-Feminism with modern Feminism. Neo-Feminism is a small counter-movement that believes Women are superior to Men, and that Women should conform to gender roles, rather than seeking equality.

Look, Women can do whatever they like, if they want to do historically "feminine" things then that's their choice. My issue is when society tells you what a Woman should do. If a Woman wants to stay home and be a housewife and cook and clean, it should be because it's something she chooses to do, not because society dictates that it's something she should do, as a Woman.

There is no inherent Masculine or Feminine activities, or interests. Only thousands of years of men, the ruling class, the church, telling women what they can and can't do.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Technically the burden of proof lies with you to disprove me.

On what exactly are calling drivel though? The idea that men and women are different and therefore interested in different things? The ideology believing otherwise?

Look up David Reimer as an example of how someone is raised doesn't change their nature.

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Sorry but that's just BS. You can't just say something and then say the burden of proof is on other to disprove you, that's not how the world works at all. Otherwise I could make any insane claim I wanted and say the burden is on you to prove me wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joven

Randomly found this and thought it was hilarious. Maybe they can make him a boss if they ever do a VII crossover:
https://i.imgur.com/g2n1Bf5.jpg

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Sephiroth, Cloud and Zack as the Magus Sisters is something I would love to see.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Thousands and thousands of years of documented Patriarchy in 99% of all society.

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Like the Unicorn Kingdom and other mythical places.

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Sorry but that's just BS. You can't just say something and then say the burden of proof is on other to disprove you, that's not how the world works at all. Otherwise I could make any insane claim I wanted and say the burden is on you to prove me wrong.

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Not different than trying to state something as "the truth" and just giving a vague (and generic) argument. And when asked for more solid stuff is responded with "is not my job to educate you".

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There is no inherent Masculine or Feminine activities, or interests

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Then how you explain the overrepresentation of women/men in certain sectors that still happens today even a myriad of measures has been put in place?

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

I always did find it funny that all of the female Primals/Auspices/Lightwardens are basically just "Human woman, but with slightly different features" while the males are all inhuman monsters.

The biggest exceptions would be Garuda, who is based on a human woman anyway, and Tesleen I suppose.

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Poor Tesleen got the short end of the stick. I could be very wrong, but it seems like most of the other female sin eaters use the succubus-style body while Tesleen went full beast-mode.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

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I get your point about the free choice. I have nothing against that.

But the matter of patriarchy is far more and subtile than that and sometimes, the "documented" patriarchy is often just the view from the XIX/XXth bourgeoisie (or what mainstrem journalism or school teachers keep as "historical truth") . For many people from low classes they were just doing what they can in order to survive. Women were helping in the fields too. It's just it was more easy to give the activity that require the most strenght to men and to keep someone to take care of the children and to deal with the farmyard. We can't be in two place in the same time.

This said, I agree monotheisms are pretty patriarchals.

About feminism and neo-feminism. Maybe. The thing that makes me sad is when women clame they want to act the same way than men, despising courteousness. It is even worst when they talk a way that lets think they would prefer to be one on these primitive brainless proud arm rather than both feminine and wise...

When you haven't been pandered to in five minutes and REALLY want to complain about it.

No one. Not one single female beauty in this game compares to my lord, Zenos.

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Originally Posted by Ammokkx

I don't really give a shit about Fanservice in most cases, but what grinds my gears is when they strip away parts of a perfectly good outfit for the female variant. As a man of culture, and one who is using a female avatar, I can't count you the amount of times where I thought a piece of gear would've just been good if it didn't have a dumb belly, chest or shoulder spot.

I think men should be able to run around in thongs and women in bikinis all they like, but when the male level 50 dragoon gear is kickass as shit(infamous example, yes, I know), and then the female variant has more holes than a swiss cheese, I get more than a bit irate. That being said, when both outfits are equally revealing for both genders, I'm all for it, too.

Point is, while I don't really care if the bosses are all scantily clad women, I really hate having to wear a dumber, less cool-looking variant of a piece of gear simply because I'm playing with a female character. It's why you'll see me run around in the only suits of armor and robes that cover my whole body, since I like that aesthetic much more than whatever the hell this was meant to accomplish.

It looks dumb.

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For the most part I agree with you, but I'm willing to give Halone's Mail a pass because it's clearly aiming for a classical "war goddess" look rather than functional armour - seeing as Halone is the war goddess of the Eorzean pantheon, and it's consistent with in-game statues of her.

I'm also guessing you may not have looked too closely at the male version beyond noting that it doesn't have an exposed chest, because what it has instead is far more ridiculous-looking. That's not just a pattern on the metal, it's a whole 3D bust of Halone that juts out of the chest armour. Probably-unintended visual pun aside, I have no idea what they might have been thinking when they did that. It looks awful.

The dragoon mail is a different thing entirely, since that is designed as functional battle armour in conservative (and cold!) Ishgard. Everything about it goes against design sense.

Re: dragoon armor
Apart from agreeing on the hate of the chest window on females, I'd add the ninja one. Perfectly nice and functional on males, miniskirt and fishnet stockings on females. What?

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

Re: dragoon armor
Apart from agreeing on the hate of the chest window on females, I'd add the ninja one. Perfectly nice and functional on males, miniskirt and fishnet stockings on females. What?

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Oh yes, that too. Doubly ironic when Tsubame wears it after she remarks on how she finds it strange that Eorzean women seem so comfortable about exposing themselves - admittedly in relation to a much skimpier bikini, but still.

Well... Athena or Ares are not especially heavy armored as war gods...

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

miniskirt and fishnet stockings on females.

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Also known as the best legs gear of the game.

To address the "Fridge Armor Males" vs the "Bikini Plate Females":

It is incorrect to suggest that the bikini plate on females is done to accentuate the female form (ie show of lady figures for maximum appeal), but then assume that male armor is all about functionality.

Most armors in teh game are extremely non functional (and if anything would be dangerous to the wearer). When comparing male armors that are bulky and large, theyre actually more akin to a codpiece than armor. The goal of the armor is to accentuate the male figure - Broad big powerful shoulders, bulky strong bodies, tough, imposing, solid, etc. This is whether or not the male character is that or not is irrelevant.

Both armors suit a gendered purpose that accentuates the form of the sex that is generally associated with it. Now if we want to say "Why cant women have big bulky armor too?", thats fine. That should be an option available to female players, as well as having more loose/tight/effeminate armors available for men. More options is better for everyone.

I just take exception, however, when people claim "Well only female armors that show skin are non functional and make no sense, where the guys get these cool big armors!" When most male armors are overly built, bulky, and accomplish the same thought process of trying to make 'men look more manlier'. The issue cuts both ways, but were selectively defining what is acceptable by pointing out that male and female glamour armors vary because they accomplish emphasizing different aesthetics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

To address the "Fridge Armor Males" vs the "Bikini Plate Females":

It is incorrect to suggest that the bikini plate on females is done to accentuate the female form (ie show of lady figures for maximum appeal), but then assume that male armor is all about functionality.

Most armors in teh game are extremely non functional (and if anything would be dangerous to the wearer). When comparing male armors that are bulky and large, theyre actually more akin to a codpiece than armor. The goal of the armor is to accentuate the male figure - Broad big powerful shoulders, bulky strong bodies, tough, imposing, solid, etc. This is whether or not the male character is that or not is irrelevant.

Both armors suit a gendered purpose that accentuates the form of the sex that is generally associated with it. Now if we want to say "Why cant women have big bulky armor too?", thats fine. That should be an option available to female players, as well as having more loose/tight/effeminate armors available for men. More options is better for everyone.

I just take exception, however, when people claim "Well only female armors that show skin are non functional and make no sense, where the guys get these cool big armors!" When most male armors are overly built, bulky, and accomplish the same thought process of trying to make 'men look more manlier'. The issue cuts both ways, but were selectively defining what is acceptable by pointing out that male and female glamour armors vary because they accomplish emphasizing different aesthetics.

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I'm not really trying to claim the men's variant isn't about making them look manlier, or that the outfits are functional.

I just want my non-functional full suits of armor to be consistent across both genders, as I really hate when the men's variant looks better because it doesn't have random exposed skin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

To address the "Fridge Armor Males" vs the "Bikini Plate Females":

It is incorrect to suggest that the bikini plate on females is done to accentuate the female form (ie show of lady figures for maximum appeal), but then assume that male armor is all about functionality.

Most armors in teh game are extremely non functional (and if anything would be dangerous to the wearer). When comparing male armors that are bulky and large, theyre actually more akin to a codpiece than armor. The goal of the armor is to accentuate the male figure - Broad big powerful shoulders, bulky strong bodies, tough, imposing, solid, etc. This is whether or not the male character is that or not is irrelevant.

Both armors suit a gendered purpose that accentuates the form of the sex that is generally associated with it. Now if we want to say "Why cant women have big bulky armor too?", thats fine. That should be an option available to female players, as well as having more loose/tight/effeminate armors available for men. More options is better for everyone.

I just take exception, however, when people claim "Well only female armors that show skin are non functional and make no sense, where the guys get these cool big armors!" When most male armors are overly built, bulky, and accomplish the same thought process of trying to make 'men look more manlier'. The issue cuts both ways, but were selectively defining what is acceptable by pointing out that male and female glamour armors vary because they accomplish emphasizing different aesthetics.

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Well said. Many of the plate armors or armors in general would largely be non-functional in reality like you say. Many of them are over-designed, or simply ornamental. Ironically, "bikini" armor, or skirts, would add a lot more freedom of movement and would seriously help with some of the fighting styles utilized by some of our classes. That isn't to say that plate armor in reality, didn't allow freedom of movement however, but plate armor in reality is not the equivalent to much of the plate armor we get in-game.

Also, if we are going to speak of glamour or general cosmetics, females have plenty of bulky armor to choose from, and that's all down to player choice. I just don't like how SE is always claiming their lack of resources, how difficult it is to fit armors to bodies, then adding and fitting wedding dresses to all our males, or panties, whatever. We still don't even have a single hairstyle for viera, or face for hrothgar released yet, and even if they released it with this coming update that would be over a year of an extremely limited race with no updates, for example.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ammokkx

I'm not really trying to claim the men's variant isn't about making them look manlier, or that the outfits are functional.

I just want my non-functional full suits of armor to be consistent across both genders, as I really hate when the men's variant looks better because it doesn't have random exposed skin.

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What about when people think the female variant looks better? Which becomes the preferred style? Who decides which look is the preferred? Do we just have one look for both female and male? Which one, more bulky, less bulky? Take turns?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

What about when people think the female variant looks better? Which becomes the preferred style? Who decides which look is the preferred? Do we just have one look for both female and male? Which one, more bulky, less bulky? Take turns?

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I'm not exactly pawning off my opinion as anyone's other than my own.

I want the male variant on my female, because I think it looks better. The option would be nice, but since I don't get it, I instead look for glams that give me what I want.

Just because I'd like the male variant and think the female one looks butt-ugly, doesn't mean others can't think otherwise. Kinda the magic of having disagreements on the internet, I just put my own front and center.

I get what Ammokkx, Iscah amd Tlamila are saying. FFXIV is very inconsisten with male/female variations and this can be very annoying. I personally had the same problem with WoW and how some plate armors showed the belly on females because of pototo.

And it's not me having a problem with eye candy, I prefer it (as long its styled too), is a matter of consistency and letting your players know what they are going to get from your game.

all armor and outfits should be unisex anyway. ESO does it in a good way. no need for huge changes between genders. it's literally double the work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

I think you are conflating Neo-Feminism with modern Feminism. Neo-Feminism is a small counter-movement that believes Women are superior to Men, and that Women should conform to gender roles, rather than seeking equality.

Look, Women can do whatever they like, if they want to do historically "feminine" things then that's their choice. My issue is when society tells you what a Woman should do. If a Woman wants to stay home and be a housewife and cook and clean, it should be because it's something she chooses to do, not because society dictates that it's something she should do, as a Woman.

There is no inherent Masculine or Feminine activities, or interests. Only thousands of years of men, the ruling class, the church, telling women what they can and can't do.

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Feminism once was about equality. Now women have equal rights, but this new wave of feminism wants more than that and as such they're the only ones I've seen shaming women into not following their proposed doctrine.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Sorry but that's just BS. You can't just say something and then say the burden of proof is on other to disprove you, that's not how the world works at all. Otherwise I could make any insane claim I wanted and say the burden is on you to prove me wrong.

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If I make a statement and you say that I'm wrong then it is entirely your responsibility to provide proof to the contrary. If it wasn't then all you would have to do to end an argument is to just say "you're wrong".

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Originally Posted by Joven

Feminism once was about equality. Now women have equal rights, but this new wave of feminism wants more than that and as such they're the only ones I've seen shaming women into not following their proposed doctrine.



If I make a statement and you say that I'm wrong then it is entirely your responsibility to provide proof to the contrary. If it wasn't then all you would have to do to end an argument is to just say "you're wrong".

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If I followed the conversation, the burden of proof lies with the person who made the original claim.

Attempting to shift burden of proof to those who should disprove you is in fact a fallacy within itself.

So, no, it is not the burden of proof for others to disprove the original claim.

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

If I followed the conversation, the burden of proof lies with the person who made the original claim.

Attempting to shift burden of proof to those who should disprove you is in fact a fallacy within itself.

So, no, it is not the burden of proof for others to disprove the original claim.

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If that were the case it wouldn't matter how many sources someone could site to make their claim, the opposing side could just dismiss them with "you're wrong" without having to show any evidence.

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Originally Posted by Joven

If that were the case it wouldn't matter how many sources someone could site to make their claim, the opposing side could just dismiss them with "you're wrong" without having to show any evidence.

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But women don't have equal rights, they're still institutionally discriminated against

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Originally Posted by Joven

If that were the case it wouldn't matter how many sources someone could site to make their claim, the opposing side could just dismiss them with "you're wrong" without having to show any evidence.

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This is where types of sources come in handy.
We accept and respect scholarly and peer reviewed sources.

Just remember, anyone can make an argumentative claim. But to say a claim is true until disproven ? No, rather you present your claim and its value stands atop the proof you provide for it.

Edit : I'm one hasty poster. In a public forum such as this, you're right. Even with all the reputable proof someone could say what they want without providing evidence for refuting. Something we just have to accept in daily life outside of official debates. Providing good proof can make for a valid argument. Those who refute without evidence are often not taken seriously. So, there's that peace of mind ahahaha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

This is where types of sources come in handy.
We accept and respect scholarly and peer reviewed sources.

Just remember, anyone can make an argumentative claim. But to say a claim is true until disproven ? No, rather you present your claim and its value stands atop the proof you provide for it.

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Tell that to those who keep making statements like this:

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

But women don't have equal rights, they're still institutionally discriminated against

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and the other person I was replying to earlier.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Tell that to those who keep making statements like this:



and the other person I was replying to earlier.

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-exclude-women there's an example, this kinda thing keeps happening of varying scale

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Originally Posted by Joven

Tell that to those who keep making statements like this:



and the other person I was replying to earlier.

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Apologies, I slammed that post button faster than a Google Lucky search.
I edited my post to respond to the rest of your comment.

Basically, you're right. People can simply so no to you despite what proof you bring. Have you seen the world today ? It's laughable. But then again, you hold a valid argument with a good foundation of sources. Those who refute with nothing ? Eh.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-exclude-women there's an example, this kinda thing keeps happening of varying scale

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You miss the part where that university was caught and called out on their actions. This shows that those actions are not tolerated. Unfortunately the article didn't say what penalties the university accrued due to their actions. Hopefully a hefty fine at the least and a loss of their accreditation at best. This also isn't proof of widespread discrimination on either a national or global scale.

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Originally Posted by Joven

You miss the part where that university was caught and called out on their actions. This shows that those actions are not tolerated. Unfortunately the article didn't say what penalties the university accrued due to their actions. Hopefully a hefty fine at the least and a loss of their accreditation at best. This also isn't proof of widespread discrimination on either a national or global scale.

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Dude, women is not at all in equal rights now in so many parts of modern life, and that is true even in modern countries. We're not even talking about underdeveloped / poor countries around the world too.

I have no idea where you got this idea of true male-female equality is something that is happening right now. Heck just a casual look on the video game industry, where FFXIV is a part of, is more than enough to dismiss such a notion. To claim otherwise is just simply being ignorant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LaughingBanana

Dude, women is not at all in equal rights now in so many parts of modern life, and that is true even in modern countries. We're not even talking about underdeveloped / poor countries around the world too.

I have no idea where you got this idea of true male-female equality is something that is happening right now. Heck just a casual look on the video game industry, where FFXIV is a part of, is more than enough to dismiss such a notion. To claim otherwise is just simply being ignorant.

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All I can account for is the US so I can't make any claims for any other country, but, in the US women have equal rights. Period. They can vote, get an education and hold a job of their choosing. It is illegal to deny this based on gender, race, sexuality or religion.

What you're thinking of is the disparity between men and women in certain fields. The idea that there has to be a 50/50 split of men and women in all things which is both wrong and if enforced is discrimination, which is illegal.