Scholar 5.0 Discussion

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Originally Posted by Naychan

Even with them knocking her down 50 potency on her new spaz heal?

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They literally do that every expansion. Seriously. They did it in Heavensward, they did it again in Stormsblood, and once more in Shadowbringers, and it's never buffed. Embrace scales very well with party ilvl increase, so they keep knocking it down at the start of every expansion to compensate.

Don't expect them to stop until embrace deals -50 potency so that the fairy can kill itself.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

Don't expect them to stop until embrace deals -50 potency so that the fairy can kill itself.

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Wasn't that basically the start of Stormblood when they took out Sustain and somehow also removed whatever damage reduction effect pets had at the same time?

As long as Embrace plays an important role in maintaining Scholar's "best near-mandatory healer" title, it's probably getting nerfed every expansion. Not that it's necessarily the right move, but I wouldn't be surprised by it.

Embrace should stay same potency but they should rework some of the math in there... but I guess that is a bit too much work perhaps.

I feel like Embrace is fine as it is personally, you can’t rely on it as your main source of healing now but with Seraph and Consolation / Seraphic Veil as well as all the buffs to our healing (Sacred Soil regen, Recitation, Illumination, Dissipation) I’ve never thought to myself ‘wow I wish Embrace was stronger’.

As an aside, would it be too OP if they made Chain Stratagem use Aetherflow on a shorter cooldown like 60s?

Alternatively I saw someone in another thread suggesting aetherflow abilities that give a small buff to the target for dumping unwanted stacks. Like a small damage increase or damage reduction.

Does pretty much the exact same as Energy Drain (converts unused Aetherflow into DPS) but without causing us to have more MP/DPS than the devs want us to have.

As for MP itself, I’ll sometimes hit like 20-25% but I still haven’t reached a situation where I literally had no MP, so I’m honestly a bit unsure about this complaint. Especially now that you can use Recitation to make the next Adloquium and Succor free.

I get that White Mage has like, infinite MP, but that’s kind of it’s thing lol. It wouldn’t be part of the classes identity as the powerful, safe healer with more MP economy if Scholar was the exact same, I think

This just runs counter to every MMO I’ve played in the past 20 years. I get it but it just blows my mind. I’m having some serious WTF moments here.

Just give us back Energy Drain or something similar. We're never going to use all of our Aetherflow for healing without overhealing. Maybe get someone who actually plays Healer on the dev team. The fact that these changes even went live is baffling. Just like with the start of Stormblood, I have to wonder, who actually approves of these changes? They suck. Completely. YoshiP should drop BLM and go play a Healer with the same dedication for a month. Maybe we'd actually have an expansion launch where the healers (or some of them) aren't total trash in comparison to last expansion.

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Originally Posted by Connor

I get that White Mage has like, infinite MP, but that’s kind of it’s thing lol. It wouldn’t be part of the classes identity as the powerful, safe healer with more MP economy if Scholar was the exact same, I think

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You know it's funny how you say that, as it used to be SCH's thing in ARR and early HW. Aetherflow used to be the bee's knees alongside optional energy drains, and was quite key in Manipulator nisi-cheese strategies. Of course a lot of that was the efficiency of its DPS kit in its off-healing role. WHM on the other hand had to watch their refresh timings and plan bard ballad usage.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

WHM on the other hand had to watch their refresh timings and plan bard ballad usage.

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so much this. and it was barely impossible to find a bard/mch who would agree to do that, since at this time it was for them a DPS loss. so much good memories...


Squix, please, give us back some real complexity. i miss the cleric stance dancing so much !

To be fair, WHM's MP economy was it's downfall even at the end of HW, you had to hold back so much even in A12S, meanwhile AST had the tools to self sustain at the cost of the occasional card and some cooldown alignment. SB fixed that massively with Thin Air.

This expansion has been amazing in term of story, but as a healer, it's felt like a slap in the face.

My main issues with SCH:

1. The fairy is sooo buggy. She sometimes despawns when changing locations and also puts skills on CD without actually casting them. I've experienced both of these bugs several times, and it's incredibly aggravating.

2. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give us energy drain back. Aetherflow design feels terrible. It's so clunky now. We need a way to spend it that ISN'T overhealing for easy content. Also having to be in combat to use is frustrating. It feels awful in dungeons when it comes off CD a second after the last mob dies, and you can't pop it.

3. Art of war costs too much mana. Even with piety melds and being overleveled, I still find myself out of mana on back to back trash pulls, and then I just stand there feeling useless....

None of this is anything that hasn't already been stated dozens of times, but I just wanted to add my own voice in the hopes that Square Enix addresses some of our concerns quickly.

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Originally Posted by Connor

I get that White Mage has like, infinite MP, but that’s kind of it’s thing lol. It wouldn’t be part of the classes identity as the powerful, safe healer with more MP economy if Scholar was the exact same, I think

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It's interesting you say that. Back in 2.x, SCH had infinite MP and WHM was the one that struggled with MP/needed Mage's Ballad from bards.

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Originally Posted by Jaegerin92

2. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give us energy drain back. Aetherflow design feels terrible. It's so clunky now. We need a way to spend it that ISN'T overhealing for easy content.

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Are you needing to use Aetherflow everytime it comes off cd in order not to run out of MP?

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3. Art of war costs too much mana. Even with piety melds and being overleveled, I still find myself out of mana on back to back trash pulls, and then I just stand there feeling useless....

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That's always been the case for spamming an aoe spell on healers, whether it's Gravity, Holy, or even Miasma II back in SB. It's supposed to be the trade off for doing so much damage by hitting everything around you.

Since we lost Fey Wind and Chain Stratagem got nerfed I'm not sure what the high point of Scholar is? The Cooldown on Chain Strat seems too high for it to be less powerful now if it's the only utility we bring. We definitely don't bring enough raid utility to match Astrologian and our personal DPS is abysmal compared to White Mage. Are we just a powerhouse healer now? I wanna be great at something because I'm playing MY healer and I'm not sure what that thing is as Scholar. I'm having a lot more fun being powerful as White Mage right now.

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Originally Posted by YanderePrincess

That's always been the case for spamming an aoe spell on healers, whether it's Gravity, Holy, or even Miasma II back in SB. It's supposed to be the trade off for doing so much damage by hitting everything around you.

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At least on white mage you can spam holy without any care for mana.

Hi everyone, I would like to put in my own two cents about Scholar. As a preface, I have been a Scholar since Coil and have cleared every savage except Ultimates. (No time unfortunately.)

I'll try to be succinct, so here are my points:
- My most annoying problem right now is that I have a phantom limb situation with Energy Drain. When I am unable to drop stacks in order to refresh my stacks, I feel like I'm solely wasting perfectly good stacks. I either heal, or I don't, and refresh the stacks. It's mostly very unfulfilling.

- Art of War costs a lot of MP. It is nice to use, but I do think it can be adjusted.

- The inability to reset aetherflow stacks before a tank finishes a pull and establishing aggro means you have to create the situation of being in combat first before you can quick heal the tank. This isn't a problem if you think ahead in the previous battle to save a stack, but I prefer to use my stacks and not keep them sitting around. Unfortunately, I do feel a sense of panic now in between pulls. I know this change was mostly to stop pre-pull waiting, but not having your toolkit ready at the start of a fight is a little stressful.

- The main problem I'm encountering is that in normal raids and 24-man dungeons, there isn't much to do. If your tank isn't tanking, if your party isn't taking damage, you can only use two buttons, three if you want to sacred soil on cooldown. While I understand that these changes were brought in to balance the classes out, I feel there is a lingering dissatisfaction with playing a healer. You really can't do much when you're not needed, and a good group should do their best to minimize their own input of damage. It sort of makes you feel... unhappy to heal. If that makes sense?

- I quite like recitation, I think it's neat and fun to use. Much needed for the class.


I'll be honest, I did not level Scholar first this time around because I wanted to finish the Bard Job Quest before the Scholar one, but in doing so I've noticed (for multiple reasons -- no new healers, the new changes) that healers are almost always in need, because healing at times just... feels like a chore. I feel as if I'm not contributing enough and can not keep my hands busy enough during encounters besides broiling and the occasional single dot.

Currently, I truly feel that the general healer changes have made healing un-fun and a lot of people unhappy, but I hope we can see some changes in the future to recoup the thrill of the battle.

Thank you very much for your time.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

At least on white mage you can spam holy without any care for mana.

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I've honestly never understood why they gave us Thin Air in the first place.

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Originally Posted by charmwitch

- My most annoying problem right now is that I have a phantom limb situation with Energy Drain. When I am unable to drop stacks in order to refresh my stacks, I feel like I'm solely wasting perfectly good stacks. I either heal, or I don't, and refresh the stacks. It's mostly very unfulfilling.

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I think the most important thing here is whether or not you need to be using Aetherflow every 60 seconds to avoid running out of mp. If your MP isn't requiring the 10% restore every 60 seconds, then there's not really a reason why you should be trying to use Aetherflow as soon as it comes off cd instead of waiting until you've used up your stacks. This is what we tended to do back in 2.x where we had 0 mp problems. I know in stormblood there was much more need to aetherflow every 45 seconds for the mp, so dumping stacks around 40 seconds to drop the cooldown all the way to 45 seconds and then aetherflow again was really good, especially since your AF dump was both damage and additional mp restore. It might just be the mindset needs to shift again, but that depends heavily on how mp efficiency is atm.

Honestly, If we're supposed to heal so much, wouldn't Miasma II fit that model a lot better than Art of War? Hit Miasma 2, heal for a bit, hit it again. Repeat.

Aren't the Devs contradicting themselves a bit with that ability?

The more I have played Sch in Shadowbringers, the more apparent the aetherflow charges feast/famine has become. The famine, due to not being able to enter a dungeon with them, and not refresh them out of combat, combined with the nature of some pulls. The feast... when everything is going good, not a ton of things to spend them on outside of over healing.

Something I just remembered were the Helix spells Sch had in FFXI. This is something that could potentially be adapted for XIV's Sch. For those not familar with them, they were an elemental nuke that also applied a DoT that ticked for the same amount that they landed for initially. How they could be adapted could be 1 Aetherflow Stack, maybe with a CD on it, and have it do some up front damage, with the added effect of either applying a DoT or debuff to the target, or maybe an AoE Regen or other buff to allies around the target. The main thing, would be to have something else to use Aetherflow stacks on when the healing aetherflow abilities are not needed or the others that could dump with are on CD or need to be saved for specific timings in a fight.

I do feel hurt when they remove some of Scholar DPS skills because all I can do to do damage is Broil and Biolysis. I want Shadow Flare, Energy Drain, and Miasma back.
But most of all, I want SE to do something with the health bar where when players get additional shield or health we see something other than neon yellow (you know, when you cast adlo or succour and see party's health have bright yellow bar). It just hurts my eyes

Some posted their suggestions on how it could change so wanted to try my hand aswell. The orginal thoughts spanned four pages so I'll try to condensate it:

1. Bring back mortal and buffable Lily, and restore their fairy skills to the pet Hotbar including Embrace. Joy of scholar was feeling I worked in tandom with the fairy. They seemed to make Silence a big thing in regular content which could mean Selene's skill a chance to shine more.
2. Restore ACN skills. Reason I felt SCH was engaging was combining abilities with all the different things you could do that stemmed from Arcanist skills like Energy Drain, Bane, Sustain, Virus, Shadowflare, E4E, Rouse, the Dots on different durations and especially Miasma 2.
3. I feel I take as long to kill an overworld mob as I do on PLD. Only difference is on pld I use 10 skills, on SCH I use 3. I would like to see damage on Broil III, Ruin 2 and Biolysis reduced and it's potencies spread over 3 more dots to manage to make combat more engaging. Then maybe have Ruin 2 as some kind of finisher based on how many dots you have up.
4. I feel Fey Union could now be replaced by a stronger Rouse. And instead, with fairy skills restored, have our own "Dark Arts". Call it "Fey Exhiliration", and the next non-Embrace Fairy skill you use costs Fairy gauge and gets an additional effect.
5. Instead of Lucid Dreamning, let AF restore 20% mana again (and give each healer an interesting way to restore their mana).
6. Quickend Aetherflow was fun. I would like to see it restored.
7. Recitation. This is like the skill scholars should always want, but never get. I say remove it and Catalyse. The few times you manage to spread a critical adlo was such a thrill without equal.
Edit: 8. How could I forget. A Cleric Stance that still comes with a risk. Like +20% damage -50% healing and a 5 sec cooldown before you can leave the stance.
Bonus. Flavored Esunas once again in the form of Leeches.

In short:
I'd like to have more buttons to achieve the same effect we have now, having to wrangle the fairy to do so, do same amount of damage with more effort and instead of being a healing powerhouse achieve less damage going to the party through buffs and debuffs.

Anyone got a good grip on Seraph use yet? I have only done the optional dungeons, not the new EX trials yet, and have only used it just to try it out, I haven't had an actual use for it. It seems clunky and weird, because the actual seraph CD is 2minutes and lasts 20s, but it doesn't last long enough to put two Consolations(CD is 20s but effect lasts 30s...) without them overlapping(it's not as if we can cast consolation right after due to the GCD on literally everything now)

IDK, I'm gonna need to play with Seraph a lot to figure out optimal use... I'm increasingly confused behind the design idea behind 5.0 Scholar.

I like the new SCH tbh

I'm happy that Shadowflare is gone, that Skill was just annoying af
DPS Rotation is a bit boring, that's true. But it was never rly entertaining anyway. Just the same as AST had it, and i'm fine with that.

SCH has the best healing kit now (again)
Soil OP, the new Skills are all good

Only Dissipation is a bit useless until now, maybe this will change in savage & ultimates.

For Atherflow it would be good, to have an extra Skill which give us Mana back, if we don't need the Stacks and Atherflow is already back on CD.
A Dmg Skill is not needed for the Stacks, just something that give either Mana or a small healing Buff

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Originally Posted by Campi

I like the new SCH tbh

I'm happy that Shadowflare is gone, that Skill was just annoying af
DPS Rotation is a bit boring, that's true. But it was never rly entertaining anyway. Just the same as AST had it, and i'm fine with that.

SCH has the best healing kit now (again)
Soil OP, the new Skills are all good

Only Dissipation is a bit useless until now, maybe this will change in savage & ultimates.

For Atherflow it would be good, to have an extra Skill which give us Mana back, if we don't need the Stacks and Atherflow is already back on CD.
A Dmg Skill is not needed for the Stacks, just something that give either Mana or a small healing Buff

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I disagree that SCH has the best healing kit. Unless you mean for Ex Trials where damage isn't that severe, then I agree. I was told by a tank that Akademia Anyder first 3 mob pull in the dungeon could be easily done with a WHM. If you try it on a SCH you'll just be in for a bad time once you run out of aetherflow usage. I haven't tried it with a geared tank, healer, and DPS yet. My first time ever into that dungeon, the tank pulled 3 mobs and died. He didn't wait for me to respawn, and he went and pulled 3 mobs again then bitched at me that the WHM he had last time was able to handle that pull. I ended up just feeling bad and left the group to have a 30 min wait timer.

This was the only time in any content that I felt my heals were lacking. Not on Ex Trials, not on any normal bosses, and not on any of the other pulls in a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Ftail

I disagree that SCH has the best healing kit. Unless you mean for Ex Trials where damage isn't that severe, then I agree. I was told by a tank that Akademia Anyder first 3 mob pull in the dungeon could be easily done with a WHM. If you try it on a SCH you'll just be in for a bad time once you run out of aetherflow usage. I haven't tried it with a geared tank, healer, and DPS yet. My first time ever into that dungeon, the tank pulled 3 mobs and died. He didn't wait for me to respawn, and he went and pulled 3 mobs again then bitched at me that the WHM he had last time was able to handle that pull. I ended up just feeling bad and left the group to have a 30 min wait timer.

This was the only time in any content that I felt my heals were lacking. Not on Ex Trials, not on any normal bosses, and not on any of the other pulls in a dungeon.

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SCH does have the strongest and most flexible healing kit.

Your anecdote is irrelevant because there's a completely different set of variables - different players, different dps, possibly different tank cd usage. Additionally, Holy carries hard in big pulls. The second pull is just tank stupidity.

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Originally Posted by Ftail

I disagree that SCH has the best healing kit. Unless you mean for Ex Trials where damage isn't that severe, then I agree. I was told by a tank that Akademia Anyder first 3 mob pull in the dungeon could be easily done with a WHM. If you try it on a SCH you'll just be in for a bad time once you run out of aetherflow usage. I haven't tried it with a geared tank, healer, and DPS yet. My first time ever into that dungeon, the tank pulled 3 mobs and died. He didn't wait for me to respawn, and he went and pulled 3 mobs again then bitched at me that the WHM he had last time was able to handle that pull. I ended up just feeling bad and left the group to have a 30 min wait timer.

This was the only time in any content that I felt my heals were lacking. Not on Ex Trials, not on any normal bosses, and not on any of the other pulls in a dungeon.

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I didn't have Problems with any Masspull in all ShB Dungeons.
Sure Holy carries Masspulls easier with its Stun, but how smooth this goes also depends on Playerskill from you, the Tank and the Dmg of the DPS.

So what Laria said :3

doing solo duties or fates is so boring now ... spam broil or AoW :/

in group it feels less that way for now coz I still need to heal a lot (learning mechanics, undergeared)


but to me SCH has a great healing kit.

2 GCD ST heals, 1 strong oGCD ST heals, embrace, fey union and one strong delayed oGCD heal

1 AoE heal + shield GCD
2 AoE heal oGCD (fey blessing and indom)
2 AoE regen (WD and soil)

2 ways to make healing bigger through recitation and emergency tactics. and dissipation for more burst heal
and spreadlo

and I don't count seraph yet coz i'm only 79 so haven't tried

our kit is way more versatile than WHM. But less straight forward and maybe less potency overall on heals ? idk ... but we have something for every situation

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

Anyone got a good grip on Seraph use yet? I have only done the optional dungeons, not the new EX trials yet, and have only used it just to try it out, I haven't had an actual use for it. It seems clunky and weird, because the actual seraph CD is 2minutes and lasts 20s, but it doesn't last long enough to put two Consolations(CD is 20s but effect lasts 30s...) without them overlapping(it's not as if we can cast consolation right after due to the GCD on literally everything now)

IDK, I'm gonna need to play with Seraph a lot to figure out optimal use... I'm increasingly confused behind the design idea behind 5.0 Scholar.

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Consolation can stack with your other shields so it's good in that regard. Basically you want to Consol when you summon seraph and right before she goes away.

My SCH is only lvl71 (almost lvl72 but that's not relevant because the lvl72 skill is Biolysis and a potency upgrade to Broil and Ruin II) but one thing that I found really annoying was not being able to see my fairy's nameplate in combat anymore. The fairies are small and sometimes it's really hard to see where they're standing so seeing their name and mine helped, but now sometimes I forget where I placed her and it's hard to know unless I place her again or use heel. Even if I choose "always" in the settings to show her name, it disappears as soon as the battle starts. I know they mentioned in the patch notes that we wouldn't be able to target them anymore and I don't really care about that but it also means we can't really see them easily in battle. I don't know if that was mentioned before but the thread is 23 pages long so...

To see fairy's name:

Settings -> Character -> Control -> Target -> Untick "Disable targetting of pets and minions when in battle".

After getting my Sch to 80, I got a bit more insight into things. Lv 80 feels great to me in comparison to lv70-73. I think the big difference is mostly from Recitation, Sacred Soil Regen and Seraph providing reliable tools for the first large pulls, as well as general use and crisis situations. While I still think Sch could use something to burn an extra aetherflow stack here and there during low healing demand situations, I really think Sch needs a non-crit version of Recitation for the lower levels first, since Aetherflow is wiped on dungeon entrance and can't be gained out of combat now. It might not be as bad at lower levels, but I know that was the biggest pain point for me from 70-73.

I know that this might not be the most important thing for some people, but Broil 3 looks really weird imo lol.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I know that this might not be the most important thing for some people, but Broil 3 looks really weird imo lol.

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I think it's pretty neat, you summon a pair of magic glyphs and launch a magic missile volley, it's my personal favorite of the new healer nukes. But yeah...

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

I think the big difference is mostly from Recitation...

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I have to agree with this right here. Recitation made a HUGE difference in my comfort level once I picked it up. Though I really only use it for Adloquium and Excogitation, it's still amazingly useful and helps me feel like my old SCH self again.

I have to ask in general, though. Does anyone feel like the out of combat MP regen is tuned a little low?

So I main SMN, not SCH but since I have access to it at 80 here are some of my thoughts...


-Summon Seraph has an additional effect that reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time, spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay of self and nearby party members by 3%. Basically the 4.0 Fey Wind effect
-Reduce potency of Art of War but add DoT?
-Add Mialysis that inflicts the target with (20s potency over 30s)?

As for Energy Drain, do you need it for DPS or mana restoration?

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

As for Energy Drain, do you need it for DPS or mana restoration?

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I mostly used it for MP management, and a spot to dump excess aetherflow stacks prior to re-using aetherflow. Sometimes I actually used it to heal up from incidental damage. But rarely if ever did I use it just for its damage. If I was using it for damage, it often was because an insta-wipe mechanic dps check was looking pretty borderline on if would succeed or fail.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

So I main SMN, not SCH but since I have access to it at 80 here are some of my thoughts...


-Summon Seraph has an additional effect that reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time, spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay of self and nearby party members by 3%. Basically the 4.0 Fey Wind effect
-Reduce potency of Art of War but add DoT?
-Add Mialysis that inflicts the target with (20s potency over 30s)?

As for Energy Drain, do you need it for DPS or mana restoration?

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While it is true SCH got a huge potency increase to their healing capacity, it doesn't really change the underlying issues that many of our skills burn mana without a real means to recover it. Aetherflow is 1k every 60 seconds, and Lucid Dreaming is not viable due to the 2 minute CD. Energy Drain, or whichever alternative they would choose to give us, is almost mandatory for our mana upkeep. Every other job has an 'ebb and flow' system built into their resources, but healers were stripped of their mechanics to regain mana consistently.

Scholar, in my opinion, needs a skill that burns one stack of Aetherflow for another 10% of MP. Considering we need to balance that resource with our more potent heal spells and damage mitigation I think that would be fairly balanced.

For Astrologian I think the best way to deal with it is to play into their card system. Let's say that rather than using 3 different colors, if you match 3 of the same it restores 30-40% of MP in one swoop. This reduces frustration if you accidentally burn a card you didn't want to match and gives them an intuitive way to recycle mana in a pinch.

While White Mage is mostly fine from what the overall consensus is, after getting Assize nerfed I don't think they would be hurting for a spell that perhaps in trade of a Blood Lily grants everyone some regen, though less potent than their other options, and restores a chunk of MP.

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Originally Posted by Kyumimi

...and Lucid Dreaming is not viable due to the 2 minute CD...

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Have you...Tried using it? Lucid isn't a 2 minute cooldown anymore.

in my experience so far
WHM is really strong and fun to play. Not really much to comment on than maybe a damage lily spender just for the sake of sometimes you need to spend one but don't really need the heal
SCH feels bad leveling but at 80 it's a healing machine way beyond the other two healers. They actually have so many tools giving them energy drain back just to burn unused aetherflow when the timer comes back would be good. Maybe a shift in level learned for some skills might make the leveling less awful feeling?
AST feels about the same as before but it is really weak by comparison to the other two. Some of the potencies are just just way off the mark and the cards don't even make up for it's personal dps compared to the other two it seems like