Dancer is a DPS

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Originally Posted by Lubu_Mykono

at least we know we will get a healer in 6.0 now. still so disappointed.

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To reach parity, we need another ranged physical DPS and another caster.

6.0 could potentially be 4 tanks, 4 melee, 4 casters, 4 ranged physical, 3 healers, if we're following the current logic in prioritization and we only get two jobs.

I'm partly joking, but if sub-roles have as much prioritization as roles, it's possible.

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Originally Posted by ZaleraPraxis

Why would you? Why should you? There is not enough of a dichotomy between the two to warrant you needing six healers. There is enough of one to warrant balancing rpdps to match current options for every other subset.

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I mean I don't think that is actually the players' fault. The ones who decided to make a half/half healer job (AST) then spend the last 4 years dart boarding buffs/nerfs are not the players and as far as I can tell we still haven't gotten anywhere. Maybe they should bite the bullet and add a 3rd healing discipline instead of trying to balance regen + shield comp or just overhaul and open the comp up to more variety. Or, you know just add another regen/shielder if they are really out of ideas and won't budge.

If they dare to use BLU as an excuse to not add a third job, which should potentially be a new healer, I swear I will always s/h/i/t on the existence of Blue Mage in XIV. :mad:

I'm not really mad that Dancer is a DPS. I'm mad that the second job reveal is not a healer role. If they follow SB instead of HW, which is my fear, then this really is it for us. When they showed Gunbreaker as a tank role, I thought they really get it. I was waiting for a healer reveal follow by maybe a DPS reveal later.

Ever since HW, I kept waiting for a 3rd job reveal for SB until we were told only two will be added and the worst was that they are both DPS role. They are fun jobs, but I don't get why the other role can't join the fun like HW's DRK/MCH/AST trio addition.

I'm not disappointed that Dancer is a DPS, I'm disappointed that there is no new healer - and frankly if they add GEO in 6.0 it sounds so much like the CNJ part of WHM mixed with a bit of AST that it feels like healer identity will be even more blurred.

All I can hope is that with DNC hopefully being more support DPS like BRD there might be a bit more variety in team builds.

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Originally Posted by Levy9

To reach parity, we need another ranged physical DPS and another caster.

6.0 could potentially be 4 tanks, 4 melee, 4 casters, 4 ranged physical, 3 healers, if we're following the current logic in prioritization and we only get two jobs.

I'm partly joking, but if sub-roles have as much prioritization as roles, it's possible.

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But we have 3 casting healers while having 0 ranged physical healers and 0 melee healers :0

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Originally Posted by Niroken

But we have 3 casting healers while having 0 ranged physical healers and 0 melee healers :0

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I've always found the "sub" role thing to be a bit of an odd argument. I don't really see the sub role as BRD to be phys ranged but rather support dps, and by those standards we only really have one support dps. I'm not really sure that MCH counts as a support DPS, they certainly don't compete for the same slot in groups as BRDs.

And by those standards we absolutely could use a few more healers though I think the sub roles might be more like pro-active and reactive. I'd love to see more things like a skill in another game I played ages ago "reversal of fortune" damage done to target heals some and reflects some back to caster/attacker. (AST currently being a hybrid is a bit of a weird one that fits both catagories.)

I know the poster Levy9 was partially joking, but I think the character interface does the whole sub roles thing a disservice.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

But we have 3 casting healers while having 0 ranged physical healers and 0 melee healers :0

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You could also say we only have 1 HoT healer, 1 Shield healer, and 1 hybrid! Which means we need 2 more HoT and 2 more Shield, and 2 more hybrid to equal the DPS subs! :P

As much as I too wanted a new healer to play, I am fine with Dancer being a DPS. There actually aren't very DPS that interest me, so I will definitely be trying it out. Since I love Bard a lot, I may very well love Dancer as well. I love ranged jobs anyway (aside from MCH sadly). Either way the current healers still have a chance to get something new in their toolkit for Shadowbringers that will make them fun again and there is still chance for something to be announced later. I will wait on that.

Just my 2 cents anyway.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

But we have 3 casting healers while having 0 ranged physical healers and 0 melee healers :0

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True. It's another inconsistency.

People were saying that we needed another DPS sub-role instead of a healer in 5.0 because physical ranged DPS lacks parity with other roles.

I'm just pointing out that a new healer in 6.0 isn't necessarily guaranteed following that logic. After 5.0, we'd still have, healers, casters and physical ranged at a lower number than tanks and melee DPS.

If DPS sub-roles are being treated as roles when it comes to prioritization, there is a chance that the two job slots in 6.0 could be used to bump physical ranged and casters up to 4.
I don't agree with it, i'm just pointing out that there is no principle here that suggests healers should be prioritized in 6.0 if DPS sub-roles are being counted as roles.

I thought there should have been a new healer build, and I know dancer has been in-demand, but speaking honestly I don't mind dancer not being a healer. I do think dancer as range DPS maybe could have been implemented at a later point in the interest of a new healer since there is so much DPS already.

I do hope either Necromancer or a dark variant on Chemist winds up being the next healer, completing the circle of goth with tanks and DPS. :P

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Originally Posted by Niroken

But we have 3 casting healers while having 0 ranged physical healers and 0 melee healers :0

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We have 3 healing specialist DPSes, 4 tanking specialist DPSes, 4 melee specialist DPSes, 3 warlock specialist DPSes, and 3 ranger specialist DPSes.

Given our game's environment, tank and healer are just blue/green DPS. The line can be drawn anywhere lol

If you separate the roles into their main stat, we'll have 3 str, 4 agility, 4 vit (tanks), 3/4 int, and 3 Mind. So we need another Str (dps), Int. (Dps) and Mind (Healer).

Making up categories is fun!

But yeah, introducing a new tank and ranged dps actually unbalanced the classes based on main stat.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

If you separate the roles into their main stat, we'll have 3 str, 4 agility, 4 vit (tanks), 3/4 int, and 3 Mind. So we need another Str (dps), Int. (Dps) and Mind (Healer).

Making up categories is fun!

But yeah, introducing a new tank and ranged dps actually unbalanced the classes based on main stat.

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Also worth noting mine is closer to the same ruler that Yoshi P measures it by:
https://i.imgur.com/goE8gxb.png
https://translate.google.com/transla...01903240006%2F

Dualgunner, I feel the ranged dps negates the fact that MCH and BRD don't compete for spots on teams, since MCH really isn't a support dps. Assuming dancer is a support dps I agree that another one was needed.

I think it is fine for dancer to be a dps. Why did people think dancer was going to be a healer? For the most part dancer was a debuffer in the Final Fantasy series but in FFXI the only mmo its been in it was a support dps that had buffs/debuffs with some healing dances but it wasn't the main point of the job. It falls in line to with what ranged physical dps do in FFXIV.

I think it makes sense being a physical ranged dps in FFXIV since BRD and MCH fill the support dps role in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Lozza

Dualgunner, I feel the ranged dps negates the fact that MCH and BRD don't compete for spots on teams, since MCH really isn't a support dps. Assuming dancer is a support dps I agree that another one was needed.

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Machinist draws from the same role action pool; it's the "BLM of the Ranger DPS" right now, which is a weird spot for it to be in. To be honest, I'd have preferred DNC be healer too so we could have gotten a different ranger-type class later down the line, but I see the logic behind the dev team's decision.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Machinist draws from the same role action pool; it's the "BLM of the Ranger DPS" right now, which is a weird spot for it to be in. To be honest, I'd have preferred DNC be healer too so we could have gotten a different ranger-type class later down the line, but I see the logic behind the dev team's decision.

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I realise they draw from the same pool but they don't compete for the same spots on teams (a la tanks) - hence why I think the distinction is a bit odd. Frankly I feel that MCH belongs more in the ranged dps along with all the magic dps - though it might be more interesting if with SHB they (MCH) get some more support like skills outside of their role skills. Either way I agree another support dps was needed and I don't personally mind that dancer was it (though they could have made an interesting and distinct healer too) - I just don't like that as a healer main I am missing out on new toys yet again.

I am all for SE coming out with a range/melee 'DPS-damage'=heals dancer. It would be wonderful to see RNG determining whether or not the tank/party gets healed during the 'kill the party' phase, and it would work soooooo well during those 'invulnerable to damage' boss phases.

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Originally Posted by Lozza

I realise they draw from the same pool but they don't compete for the same spots on teams (a la tanks) - hence why I think the distinction is a bit odd. Frankly I feel that MCH belongs more in the ranged dps along with all the magic dps - though it might be more interesting if with SHB they (MCH) get some more support like skills outside of their role skills. Either way I agree another support dps was needed and I don't personally mind that dancer was it (though they could have made an interesting and distinct healer too) - I just don't like that as a healer main I am missing out on new toys yet again.

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In the same vein that you're saying MCH and BRD don't fight for the same role, the tanks don't compete for the same spot either. Just like how Bard is the lock in spot for second DPS (after DRG), you have the WAR tank and the not-WAR tank that PLD/DRK fight over. Same with healers: you have the SCH healer, and the not-SCH healer that the AST and WHM compete for.

MCH and BRD are meant to compete for the same spot. It's just that MCH is woefully unprepared to compete for that spot.

Preach! SE knew that people wouldn't want healers at the start of the storm bringers expansion, so they made Trusts to alleviate this problem. Makes sense.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

If you separate the roles into their main stat, we'll have 3 str, 4 agility, 4 vit (tanks), 3/4 int, and 3 Mind. So we need another Str (dps), Int. (Dps) and Mind (Healer).

Making up categories is fun!

But yeah, introducing a new tank and ranged dps actually unbalanced the classes based on main stat.

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The official categories on FFXIV's job guide website are Tank Healer, and DPS, with the latter being officially split into three sub-categories: the Melee, Physical Ranged and Magical Ranged (Caster) DPS categories.

As a DPS, your limit break and your role actions are dependent on your sub-role (Caster AoE, Melee single-target, Ranged Line-AoE). A Melee DPS can't AoE limit break or use Caster role actions.

The DPS sub-category split actually isn't arbitrary or fan-made.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

In the same vein that you're saying MCH and BRD don't fight for the same role, the tanks don't compete for the same spot either. Just like how Bard is the lock in spot for second DPS (after DRG), you have the WAR tank and the not-WAR tank that PLD/DRK fight over. Same with healers: you have the SCH healer, and the not-SCH healer that the AST and WHM compete for.

MCH and BRD are meant to compete for the same spot. It's just that MCH is woefully unprepared to compete for that spot.

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We're pretty much coming at the same point from two different angles. I find the dev quote you posted interesting precisely because it suggests something of a blindness to how the players treat MCH, that is not as a support dps but as a pure dps. If the devs truly mean for it to be competing for a spot they will need to change the job significantly in SHB. Either way though a new support dps was needed. And as I said earlier in this thread it would be nice perhaps if they added another healer to fit maybe a pro-active (shields) & reactive (stronger heals/regen) model.

It will be interesting to see if GNB does shake up the tank model at all.

FF XIV need a new healer. If make dancer a dps... they should not to give us a BLU but a new healer job ( if give only 3 new jobs). I think BLU could wait later. New Healer job was more important :/

I was pretty bummed that Dancer wasn't a healer for 2 reasons.

1. Dancer Melee Healer would have been Awesome and something different to what we currently have.
2. They haven't offered another healer since HW.

After thinking more on it though, I am happy that Ranged DPS got another addition and Dancer was implemented. It makes sense why they did what they did. It does suck that we didn't get another healer, however, I love AST and don't think I would have changed mains even if Dancer was a Healer. With all the battle system changes in 5.0 it is going to be interesting to see what they do with every job, especially healers. I'm praying for a bit more diversity and that the 3 healers we have will have more of an individual identity. I'm very excited for 5.0 because there is just so much that they can do and I can't wait to see.

I was disappointed by not having a healer added this expansion as well. I feel like at this point if they were feeling ambitious they could fiddle with a few jobs like bard and astrologian maybe with dancer and make them support classes. But that would take a lot of dev work and there would definitely be a real rough patch in the beginning trying to figure out how that would play in the current system, so probably not going to happen.

I liked the job in FFXI and wish it would have been more close to that.
I didn't really want it to be a healer.
Maybe it will be cool as a ranged, I will have to wait and see.
I heard someone say as long as it is not a bard with a Chakram and I agree with that.