This is why this game should'nt get a parse

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

A lot of people in this thread target me, despite I didn't say anything to anyone, talking bullshit about me because yes. So, that's not toxicity, that's perfectly fine and aceptable. Then we have a lot of thread s with "this community is great, is not toxic as WoW or Whatever!!!"

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I replied to your first comment in the thread because it was obvious that you did not bother to read any farther than the opening post. Which, if you had, you would have realized that this wasn’t another “someone was mean to me on the Internet and used parsers to do it” thread, but a thread in which the OP fabricated supposed parser usage/griefing on behalf of the WAR to try and defend their (the OP’s) poor performance/dismissal from the group (both the WAR from the party and the AST came to this thread to say that parsing wasn’t even mentioned, nor was individual DPS). In no way was I “attacking you”. I was merely pointing out how poor it is to jump into a discussion without bothering to even read it, and how DPS should be held accountable for their performance in end-game, Savage content, since everyone is so quick to hold tanks and healers accountable for theirs. That’s only fair.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

). In no way was I “attacking you”. I was merely pointing out how poor it is to jump into a discussion without bothering to even read

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They never even read what was really going on either in that group, so they start attacking others, including myself and you and then they have the balls to say this:

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

A lot of people in this thread target me, despite I didn't say anything to anyone, talking bullshit about me because yes. So, that's not toxicity, that's perfectly fine and aceptable. Then we have a lot of thread s with "this community is great, is not toxic as WoW or Whatever!!!"

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

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What? I didn't attack you or anyone. What the are you saying? I just put a comment and immediately assume things, like before.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

What? I didn't attack you or anyone. What the are you saying? I just put a comment and immediately assume things, like before.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Report them. They're not allowed to talk about parser in game, specially if it is used to harass others. Also, I think is a bit worrying a tank more concern about DPS than tanking.

The best way to stop that is not having any mercy with that people.

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Attacking the warrior and he never mentioned parser in the chat, so you are just asuming here.
Then you attack me because you say I'm wrong and call people toxic because we agreed with the tank? The tank never mentioned parsers or anything and he played with his friends. Is he obligated to only play with certain people? He mentioned he went to play with his friends. So you are the one asuming here.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

A lot of people in this thread target me, despite I didn't say anything to anyone, talking bullshit about me because yes. So, that's not toxicity, that's perfectly fine and aceptable. Then we have a lot of thread s with "this community is great, is not toxic as WoW or Whatever!!!"

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What bullshit? You ignored most what people said and go in a thread and only respons to what Op said, what bullshit are you talking about? I just posted everything you said, so don't tell us we saying bullshit you never said.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Report them. They're not allowed to talk about parser in game, specially if it is used to harass others. Also, I think is a bit worrying a tank more concern about DPS than tanking.
The best way to stop that is not having any mercy with that people.

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Your first post, is this not a definition of attacking in your dictionary? Im the problem, I should be shown no mercy and I worry about DPSing more than tanking. Count me clueless, I'd like an explanation what the definition of attacking is in your world.

The MCH said that "everything was going smooth" referring to us killing it, not getting kicked, then getting replaced when 3 friends came later on in the evening. If I was a DPS internet bully, wouldn't I have kicked him/her/it after the first kill of low DPS?
Try to read, reason, speak. Any other combination will lead to you looking like a fool. Know what Mr T says about those? I pity the fool!

Here, have a sample of Mr T's advice for public speaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eisa5AZ20W0

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

An how the hell you know how I play my tank? For you information, I stand 99% without tank stance, performing DPS as "everyone expect".

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Tried to check your logs to verify the above unsubstantiated claim and I see they're hidden.

Interesting that you've waded into a thread made by someone raging about parsers, proceeded to attack people based on the assumptions from OP's post without actually reading the thread (skimming or otherwise) and then gone on the defensive when shown evidence to the contrary.

I'm guessing the reasoning behind your logs being hidden and the way you entered the thread is that you don't approve of parsers and are trying to ram your opinion down other people's throats.

A little life tip for you: You're entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else. Don't be a dick about it when you don't like someone's opinion because it won't get you very far.

It's a useful tool for people that want to use them for testing
S-E doesn't care about botting, cheating, modding, or anything else so anyone that wants one will get it anyways

What's the problem of having it if you want it right in the game?

Can i go offtopic, is there is any way to check my performance on fflogs if i am playing on ps4? Could the site just "screen" my gameplay without third party app included?

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Can i go offtopic, is there is any way to check my performance on fflogs if i am playing on ps4? Could the site just "screen" my gameplay without third party app included?

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If someone parsed you in a fight and you are in it and it was uploaded, you can go to your profile (make an account btw, you should) and there is every detail what you did step by step. You can see when you used the buffs, etc

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Can i go offtopic, is there is any way to check my performance on fflogs if i am playing on ps4? Could the site just "screen" my gameplay without third party app included?

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The site that Akaneakki said can give you exact information, but if you're curious on just numbers, it's not bad to just ask if anyone's parsing since you're curious and you're PS4. Usually when people ask, the person parsing will give the number, as they've basically gotten the okay. Helpful if you're ever just curious when doing things.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Oh crap, my bad. I am a toxic elitist who is the Scourge of Eorzea, trash talking every non-orange player in even the most casual content. I tell everyone I raise to uninstall the game and force my cohealer to carry the brunt of the healing so that I can have my own orange parses.

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You'll be the final boss of the next expansion and can only be damaged by healer DPS spells? :D

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I mean, that last part is actually a little true, but yeah...

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Does that make me the forum princess healer to your elitist healer? ;)

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

A lot of people in this thread target me, despite I didn't say anything to anyone, talking bullshit about me because yes. So, that's not toxicity, that's perfectly fine and aceptable. Then we have a lot of thread s with "this community is great, is not toxic as WoW or Whatever!!!"

Yeah, I see it. What I did to you to attack me like this? Do you feel great, big, powerful?

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You replied without reading the thread, posting something that had already been disproven. What did you think was going to happen?

It's basic etiquette to read first and post second. If you can't adhere to that, it's on you. Nobody else is obligated to pretend that your're not wrong.

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Originally Posted by Tangster85

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Omg...do I really have to spell out what I'm getting at? Apparently I do, otherwise this post wouldn't have spawned. Ok...lemme break this down some for the New Year. If you don't know your basic rotation by level 50 (if you don't use a jump potion), you as a player are ...not a good player. Honestly. By level 60, yes, you'll gain some new skills, but you still have your basic rotation, which you should've learned. If by level 70, you still cannot figure out your rotation, assuming you've been sticking with the same class/job since level 1 (or 30 for the HW jobs), then you have no business even worrying about being parsed, let alone being in Omega Savage of all places. Even RDM, which has probably the easiest rotation of all jobs - if you can't figure out to start with Jolt, then rotate between your white/black magics, then go in for melee once you hit a certain level on the gauge, then you are playing badly.

Insofar as the other post you made, my question is - why the hell is your friend even going in O1S with a new class they have very little knowledge of? Or even their level 70 class quest?

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Originally Posted by Eylirria

I get what you are saying... but by level 50 most people are missing at least 3-4 key abilities and mechanics... so, no, they won't know their level cap rotations by then.. or, if you're doing your level 50 rotation @ 70... theyll be doing 2.5k in 330 gear.

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Not quite what I was getting at. Obviously, at level 50, you have your foundations, and as you pick up skills, skills which the game does provide tooltips for if one were to look at them, one has to actually incorporate those into their rotation. I didn't mean doing a level 50 rotation in Omega Savage - I meant that by the time you hit level 50, you should already have a pretty decent knowledge of what your basic rotation should be. By 70, you should know most of your skills and what they do. One should not be trying to get parsed and going into Omega Savage if they don't know the majority, if not all, of their skills.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Report them. They're not allowed to talk about parser in game, specially if it is used to harass others. Also, I think is a bit worrying a tank more concern about DPS than tanking.

The best way to stop that is not having any mercy with that people.

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Also, while I'm catching up on all the discussion I missed, while tanking is the main job of the class, the tanks...hell, really, even healers, should be doing what they can to contribute to DPS too if they have the opportunity. No reason why a tank can't learn to switch to their DPS stance while MT - that's part of learning a fight. Also, say if I asked for my parse after a particular run, since I'm on PS4 and can't do my own numbers - should I automatically be reported because I'm curious how I did?

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Originally Posted by Tridus

Does that make me the forum princess healer to your elitist healer? ;)

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I don't know, you seem awfully good at not dying/keeping others alive to be a forum princess healer. Those guys are usually total crap.

See? Elitist. ;D

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

If by level 70, you still cannot figure out your rotation, assuming you've been sticking with the same class/job since level 1 (or 30 for the HW jobs), then you have no business even worrying about being parsed, let alone being in Omega Savage of all places.

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Kavia, you elitist you >.>

But for real very well said. If people understood this then perhaps this thread wouldn't have to exist.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Kavia, you elitist you >.>

But for real very well said. If people understood this then perhaps this thread wouldn't have to exist.

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Ahaha, we elitists are the source of all evils in Eorzea. Not even the Ascians get this kind of hate haha.

I've seen some bad plays going on in Omega Savage. It's one thing if you're not fully comfortable with everything that starts happening in O3S (and let's be honest, the first two are a cakewalk compared to 3 and 4). But somebody can't complain if they are using their class right - I love the arguments that this game isn't a job. My response? This is a MMO. In team-based games like Call of Duty, if I said that you needed to actually shoot your gun, would you (not you Moro) complain that I'm making it seem like a job if you're just running around a multiplayer map and...not really doing anything else?

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

As for my dps even if i know that i am not the best MCH out there and i can indeed improve, 3,5k-4k is way more than enough for o2s,

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I know I sense bs when I read this.
11% enrage? 3.5k dps is enough? lol . I just got enrage at 11% o2s with dps being 3.5k, 3.4k, 3.2k and 2.5k and me as tank 3.5k and second tank 1.2k.

Oh snap, this thread got interesting all of a sudden. /popcorn

After reading a bunch of these replies I guess I don't really have that much of an issue with parsing, so long as it doesn't become the way we judge players in this game (yes, it's in my profile blurb as a negative, but only because I can't handle brospeak). For personal improvement, group improvement, performance breakdown etc, it is an effective tool because its faster than trying to watch what everyone is doing. However, it should never be used to shame or justify shitty behavior--and if becomes a thing on console then yes, it's going to get abused that way. And most of the ppl who do so won't even be 'elitists', they'll just be assholes. As they always were.

On the whole, I think elitists usually hang with other elitists and I encourage this behavior.

(Otherwise I'll get them in an ARR leveling dungeon and they'll leave at spawn because ALL MY SKILLS ARE GONE AND I CANNOT MAR THE PERFECTION THAT IS MY HOTBAR. --This used to happen pretty regularly before SB.)

Also, I don't think PF with set iLvls are really that elitist. It's pretty much just a stopgap to ensure a base level of DPS. You can grind some fairly easy content for the tomes needed for the gear. -And regular Exdeath is a joke. Get them Crystalloids.

I've always been torn between wanting an ingame parser, and not wanting one.

On one hand, when I was in a static, I asked for my numbers. I wanted that information.

On the other hand, that information is something that I personally believe should never actually be seen by players for reasons I see here. Talking about having a certain dps amount, clipping cooldowns, and other fine details that bring people into wanting pretty much perfect play. Or "My job does 0.01 dps less than another one, its unbalanced!"

Yes, dps checks / enrage is a thing but you shouldn't need this info to see where you may need work. If you need to squeeze every single possible point out of every player just to clear, then you think maybe you are a tad undergeared? "But Adeacia, what about world first groups?" Yeah, what about them? You act as if they actually matter overall. People who take time off from work just to play this have other issues to think about.

When I was doing Lakshmi EX (a stupidly easy fight, as we all know) when it just came out, the party I was in kept hitting enrage. It didn't take a parser to figure out who was lagging behind on dps. To fix it, I simply went to town with my own dps (I'm a healer) every chance I got and we cleared from then on. Now healers should not be required to dps at all to make up for lack of dps from actual dps, but I like doing it and wanted to actually start getting clears.

To summarize, in my experience (even in savage) it's pretty clear who is lagging and what they need to work on making a parser not needed to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

Yes, dps checks / enrage is a thing but you shouldn't need this info to see where you may need work. If you need to squeeze every single possible point out of every player just to clear, then you think maybe you are a tad undergeared? ".

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When we progged first week and I died I did more dps than those who never die as ilvl 340 and they should still do more than what I did when they die 1 time too. Gear isn't going to magicaly make you a great dps.
https://imgur.com/rrl6vRk Look at the link.
This was today and the dps died once.. ONCE!!!! and look at the top, the warrior was doing most of the damage and this was a group of full 340. Explain to me why this is happening.
This was also an enrage btw.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

When we progged first week and I died I did more dps than those who never die as ilvl 340 and they should still do more than what I did when they die 1 time too. Gear isn't going to magicaly make you a great dps.
https://imgur.com/rrl6vRk Look at the link.
This was today and the dps died once.. ONCE!!!! and look at the top, the warrior was doing most of the damage and this was a group of full 340. Explain to me why this is happening.

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I was specifically talking about expecting perfect play on every person in the party. My fault for not making that clear enough. I agree that people with lower gear can outdamage people with better gear. It happens all the time. You just shouldn't need a parser to realize someone is lagging behind is what I mean. I know when I mess up my rotation on BRD or let a dot fall off for example. Don't need a parser to tell me that I messed up and my dps is lower than it should have been.

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

I was specifically talking about expecting perfect play on every person in the party. My fault for not making that clear enough. I agree that people with lower gear can outdamage people with better gear. It happens all the time. You just shouldn't need a parser to realize someone is lagging behind is what I mean. I know when I mess up my rotation on BRD or let a dot fall off for example. Don't need a parser to tell me that I messed up and my dps is lower than it should have been.

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Yeah that's np. But honestly if you do as low as OP or those guys did at ilvl 340, you dont even have the basic rotation even going on, you are legit spamming buttons all day without know whats going on.
A parser doesn't only tell you the damage, there is so much more than that :)

I have to strongly disagree with you, Adeacia, and here’s why (not trying to argue, but I want you to know why I disagree with your post and its points):

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

On the other hand, that information is something that I personally believe should never actually be seen by players for reasons I see here. Talking about having a certain dps amount, clipping cooldowns, and other fine details that bring people into wanting pretty much perfect play.

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This is false. If you read a lot of the parser discussions that go on around here, you would see that a lot of people that want an in-game parser (or who already parse) do not expect 95th percentile play out of random players; I don’t even think they expect 75th percentile play out of them They expect for DPS to do more DPS than a tank, yes, but they do not expect perfection.

The OP is being singled out for their poor DPS because, as a 340 MCH with zero deaths in most of their previous Savage fights, they are pulling below average numbers compared to other MCHs at the same, or even a lower, ilvl; in the fight that is the main complaint of this thread, they were pulling less damage than the tanks. Sure, they died, but one death should not send a DPS below a tank in terms of outgoing damage; it usually takes 2~3 deaths. That, and because they came here looking for sympathy over supposed griefing via parsers that never actually happened (the WAR and AST from that party chimed in to say that there was no harassment over DPS or parsers).

That being said, if a group does not have a certain amount of collective DPS, they will hit enrage. How do players figure out how much rDPS is needed to clear a fight before enrage? With a parser. Because there is no other way to figure that out.

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"But Adeacia, what about world first groups?" Yeah, what about them? You act as if they actually matter overall. People who take time off from work just to play this have other issues to think about.

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I’m...not really clear on how your comment about world-first raiders comes into play here, but...what world first raiders do is entirely up to them. They enjoy raiding and progging 15~16 hours a day. If they choose to take time off from work or other real-life obligations to win a world-first race, then that’s what they want to do. But don’t say they don’t matter, since some of them are ones who make guides to help more casual/midcore raiders progress (e.g., Xeno), or guides to help with job optimization (e.g., Miyuri gives out a lot of wonderful information about BRD gameplay and optimization).

That being said, since this game does absolutely nothing to teach players a proper endgame or optimized rotation, players that want to push themselves have to turn to outside sources. They don’t have a choice. There’s no accurate way to analyze your performance outside of trial and error with a parser; that’s one way theorycrafters figure out the most optimized rotations and stat weights for certain jobs.

Yeah, the game has SSS, but SSS is not an accurate representation of DPS, because it doesn’t account for things like party buffs (or some self-buffs; I believe Dragon Sight is not accounted for in SSS dummy tests, but would need a DRG to confirm this since I don’t play the job at a Savage level) or mechanics, and the fight is based around a 3-minute target dummy. Not a good representation of an actual fight. A person may be able to clear the dummy, but may not be able to clear the fight.

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Yes, dps checks / enrage is a thing but you shouldn't need this info to see where you may need work. If you need to squeeze every single possible point out of every player just to clear, then you think maybe you are a tad undergeared?

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If you “have to squeeze out every point” from a player in order to clear a piece of content, then that player is not ready for said content. And it doesn’t even have anything to do with their gear, really (Omega Savage is clearable without full i340). It could be raid awareness (do they die a lot to failed mechanics?), rotation (are they using an old HW rotation, or a suboptimal one that ignores core aspects of the job?), anything really. A player can be i340 and have no idea how to actually play the job they’re rolling (I ran into such a player today in my Expert Roulette—a BRD that used their songs maybe 5 times the entirety of Skalla, and they have cleared V3S).

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When I was doing Lakshmi EX (a stupidly easy fight, as we all know) when it just came out, the party I was in kept hitting enrage. It didn't take a parser to figure out who was lagging behind on dps. To fix it, I simply went to town with my own dps (I'm a healer) every chance I got and we cleared from then on. Now healers should not be required to dps at all to make up for lack of dps from actual dps, but I like doing it and wanted to actually start getting clears.

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But, could you point out which DPS was specifically lacking? With no numbers to go off of, how would you know which DPS you had to pick up the slack on as a healer to clear? You can’t really unless it’s glaringly obvious. Which brings me to my next point:

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To summarize, in my experience (even in savage) it's pretty clear who is lagging and what they need to work on making a parser not needed to begin with.

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Not always. Take a ShinEx group I was in. We had such low DPS that we were seeing a second Tidal Wave in first phase. The DPS were: me on RDM (i339), a MCH (in mostly 340 with some 330 pieces), a MNK (crafted 320), and I think the other was a DRG or SAM...another melee DPS (mostly in 330~340). At first glance, who do you think would have such low DPS that we were seeing a second Tidal Wave in first phase? Just going off of things like gear and weapons?

Most people would probably assume the MNK in the crafted 320 gear, but that is incorrect. It was actually the MCH. The MCH was doing less damage than our tanks with no deaths. The MNK had to die twice for them to finally dip below the MCH, and the only reason they died was due to healer neglect (they were targeted for Earth Breath and died to the Sludge DoT, and then just weren’t topped off enough after being raised and died to Ice Storm).

Bottom line is, you can’t always tell who is lagging behind without a parser unless it’s something glaringly obvious, like a BRD that doesn’t use their songs (lack of the critical up buff is the telltale sign there) or a caster where you can actively watch their cast bar to see what they’re doing. To imply that a parser isn’t needed to see performance is incorrect.

(As an aside to this post, another Expert Roulette I was doing, we had a WAR that was just astounded that the DPS was so high on the trash packs [DPS was me on BRD and a random SMN who was just killing it, even with an i320 weapon; their damage was astounding] because they were under the impression that both SMN and BRD were considered “weak DPS”. After informing them that SMN is wiping the floor with just about every DPS job out there, and BRD is nothing to really scoff at, even if it’s near the bottom, they were absolutely shocked, because they had never heard of SMN or BRD being considered strong DPS jobs. This is just another example of you can’t always tell who is “weak” or “falling behind”, and who is “a god” in terms of DPS/performance without a tool showing you raw, numerical data.)

I don't think expecting people to hit higher than some ilvl320 tanks is elitist. Literally the kill time would have been at least 2 minutes faster every run with average level dps, thats 20 minutes wasted after 10 kills. I probably would have just wasted my time and tolerated it, but you can't expect everyone to waste their time carrying people who don't know their basic rotation or don't realize they need to press buttons (even wrong buttons) while running for mechanics. You don't need a parser to see that op never used flamethrower, big gun with flames coming out is pretty hard to miss which means no overheat for wildfires.
Also I've met more people in this game that have bigger elitist egos thinking their good at the game that don't parse than the same type who parse.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Those should all be done with the consent of those involved, or names need to be hidden.

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I didn't consent to you quoting my post. By your argument, you should have asked for consent.

Well that was an interesting read...



My stance on parsers in general.
I was neutral on the issue, until I was swayed by the arguments of the anti parser crowd.

Their arguments lead me to be pro parser.





I have no FFlogs.
At least, not as of the last time I checked.

I just don't get around to doing stuff when it's relevant.
My sister and I haven't managed to get much time together to progress, so we haven't even started in on Stormblood yet.

The only people who are against logs, are in my limited experience, players that are garbage and don't want to have proof of it.
There was some feelcraft WHM earlier who "knew whos sucking because its obvious" short of a person dying 24/7 you can't know whos lacking without any data. You're saying the $ will dive in February 2018 its obvious to anyone - Oh yeah? What data have you got for this assumption?

Problem is people don't know how to use logs, they tell you a lot more than who does what DPS.

Why are you wiping? Look at deathlogs
Why did that tank just die? Check logs for shields/cooldowns
Why did the raid just die to that flare on o4s? Check logs where they were placed
Why is your DPS low? Check logs on management

Or my personal favorites;
Why the hell is that Scholar using Emergency Tactics, like, ever?
Why did that WHM cast 40 Cure 2 on o1s?
Why is that DRK casting 10 dark passenger on a raid boss? Or why did he use 4 Carve and Spit on a 9.30 fight? Better yet, why didnt he use Dark Arts for them?
WHY IS THAT SCHOLAR USING EMERGENCY TACTICS, LEGIT WHAT THE ACTUAL F

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Queue pity party and toxic being overused in 3...2...1...

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if the shoe fits...

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Originally Posted by Tangster85

The only people who are against logs, are in my limited experience, players that are garbage and don't want to have proof of it.

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This statement is garbage in and of itself; I'm not a great player, I'm not a bad player, just average and I don't need logs to prove that to me. You won't hurt my feelings by saying I'm not good because its true. But there are many reasons to dislike logs outside of a fragile ego such as it seems to bring out the more toxic individuals and give them another bat to use against other people. I've never played a game where parsers improved my experience playing it and I've played many where it made it worse. That is why I don't want it; because my experience tells me it will make this game worse.

But that is my opinion and everyone else is welcome to theirs. I know there are people that won't abuse parsers and I know parsers don't have an exclusive hold on the asshats in the game. It doesn't change that I don't want them in the game.

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

I'm not a bad player, just average and I don't need logs to prove that to me. You won't hurt my feelings by saying I'm not good because its true.

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It's poorly worded (An unfortunate trend that arguably spawned this thread in the first place), I'll definitely give you that. But there's definitely truth in there as well.

Look at it this way, if you were to embrace the data that parsers and logs offer, do you not think you could use that to become more than just 'average'?

I put a power meter on my pushbike, it doesn't automatically make me 3 mph faster everywhere, but by taking the time to learn how to understand and apply the numbers it's telling me, it can arguably do even more. This is what logs are really about.

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

But there are many reasons to dislike logs outside of a fragile ego such as it seems to bring out the more toxic individuals and give them another bat to use against other people.

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And yet, the point that gets missed and brushed over again and again here, is that for every petulant child with a parse window (and likely still going to be an petulant child without said parse window) that's needlessly kicking up a fuss, there's an order of magnitude more quietly getting on with their thing because they just don't care. It's bordering on a discriminatory stance. Bigoted and hopelessly out of touch with reality imho.

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

I've never played a game where parsers improved my experience playing it and I've played many where it made it worse. That is why I don't want it; because my experience tells me it will make this game worse.

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How would parsers make your experience worse? Surely, the whole point of parsing, just from the perspective that it is simply a tool, is to figure out how to improve?

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

it seems to bring out the more toxic individuals

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You miss the point again and trying to make people improve doesnt make people toxic. What is toxic to me is I go in a farm, expect people to know how to do dps and mechanics but far too many players fails that, so why are you going to be a-hole and waste 7 peoples time? Because you had fun? Think a little bit what you said there. There are far too many players who leech of others and how is that not toxic at all? Or is it because you fell for their ''I have fun, damn you all If i can't, because it doesnt matter if we wipe or not as long I HAVE FUN''.

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

But there are many reasons to dislike logs outside of a fragile ego such as it seems to bring out the more toxic individuals and give them another bat to use against other people.

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You don’t need parsers to bring out toxicity. I’m really tired of the misconception that parsers = more toxicity all around. Jerks are going to be jerks no matter what; they don’t need a parser to be one. And, quite frankly, a lot of them probably don’t even use parsers to be jerks in the first place.

Don’t blame the tool because someone decided to use it incorrectly.

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I've never played a game where parsers improved my experience playing it and I've played many where it made it worse. That is why I don't want it; because my experience tells me it will make this game worse.

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This is anecdotal, though. It can’t really be used as evidence for anything. If we were going this route, I could say that parsers made my gaming experience better, therefore it should be implemented because it will make the game better.

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Originally Posted by DamianTenbe

There always will be a reason for somone to be rude or toxic. It may be dmg related or simple positioning. Just got to find nice people to play with.

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I'm surprised no one has responded by saying that "On my server, there are no good groups to play with!!!!!!".

Maybe I'm just lucky but i never seem to be able to NOT find a good play group

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Don’t blame the tool because someone decided to use it incorrectly.

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if someone told me i could be doing more damage (in a productive/constructive way) because they were using a parser, I would be completely open to the suggestions.

People don't like them because they aren't the one using them, and most people who do use them just aren't really clear/supportive about what information they are gleaning from it.

"You suck" is usually the default response. Rather than something constructive/informative.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

"You suck" is usually the default response. Rather than something constructive/informative.

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While I agree some are like that but the majority of players who are like that barely exist. I've seen more players try help others and get something shit back at you.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

if someone told me i could be doing more damage (in a productive/constructive way) because they were using a parser, I would be completely open to the suggestions.

People don't like them because they aren't the one using them, and most people who do use them just aren't really clear/supportive about what information they are gleaning from it.

"You suck" is usually the default response. Rather than something constructive/informative.

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There are also people who use them and don't say anything at all, and I'd imagine, though I can't prove it, that the majority of parser users fall in that category.

Taking myself, I have used it and never brought it up in game to anyone. I have, however, used it to compare myself to another SCH in the party (I main SCH) to see how my heals stacked up. If I ended up better, eh. If I ended up worse (and it's not because of something obvious like dying to a mechanic), I immediately go to the logs and see what they did different. Even the basic circle graph that comes with ACT is enough for me to see what skills they benefited more from.

Do I also notice when other people (like DPS) aren't doing much damage? Sure, but I don't bring it up. You might be surprised how many people like me, whose default response isn't to give constructive criticsm but also not give any "you suck" comments, whose default response is simply to keep to themselves and only use it for self-improvement, exist.