Can we as paying customers agree the lack of Housing is simply unacceptable to SE?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by k99

At the end of the day, it was intended to be limited and unique, not easily accessible.

---

The problem I have with limited content is that they cost something which is funded by everyone. Yet a lot of those who funded the said content is blocked from it. A lottery system is more fair regarding unique, limited or exclusive content so that at least everyone had the same chance to enjoy the content they funded.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DravlinKuraiyoru

I'm all for unique and limited items, a la glamour, titles, etc. Unique and limited content that I'm helping fund the creation, implementation, and support for is absolutely unacceptable.

---

I wouldn't even say those are limited. Not everyone can just snatch them up as they please but there isn't a finite amount of them either. However in housing, there is. Imagine if there were only 50 BiS weapons for each class per server. Or only 1000 people could be a certain class. People always say these things could be interesting or fun on paper but in practice it has little broad appeal. That's why making things harder, require more time or resources to get, but infinite, has more appeal and its not at the expense of others missing out.

And as people are pointing out, people who want houses but can't get them are helping pay for them. Not WANTING to take part in content is one thing, being UNABLE to is another. I think the idea of charging cash for having more than one house per account is more than reasonable if that means it can help bank roll resources to add more wards.

Lotro had auto-generation of wards when they filled up literally a decade ago.

There is no excuse as to why housing is the way it is. They can have the social experience of a neighborhood and the ability for everyone to get a house.

It's beyond ridiculous that they didn't add more wards but can copy paste an entire expansion's worth of endgame content into a new coat of paint.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Verdan

Lotro had auto-generation of wards when they filled up literally a decade ago.

There is no excuse as to why housing is the way it is. They can have the social experience of a neighborhood and the ability for everyone to get a house.

---

Ironically LotRO's housing system didn't have any of the issues that FFXIV's does, had plenty of housing for everyone, and was done in an MMO that's just bad comparatively.

Just echoing a sentiment, I'm not sure what SE expects subscribers to think of paying for the development of content they'll only limit to very few. Oh, bless you, you have a house I am paying for. That's nice, while I go find a nice FC with housing that will maybe give me access to gated content. My account is new so I don't even have the gil to buy a house yet. But hearing about this problem takes some of my motivation away because I like being rewarded for playing. Also when I hear that there's plenty of gil floating around and nowhere to spend them, how sincere is this campaign against RMT I wonder.

I believe the devs are smart enough to expect many people being disappointed by Shirogane housing. So my question to them is why? Why do you knowingly want to upset many people?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by k99

Black Friday sales. You were either first in line, or you got trampled under the rush. That's what this was. Can't blame Walmart for the insane activity of other people leading to you not getting what you wanted.

---

Here's the difference. Walmart will inevitably restock their supplies at a later time. Sure, they won't be on sale but they'll be available. Housing isn't. People can't wait three months and just pay a little more to get the house they want.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Faul

The problem I have with limited content is that they cost something which is funded by everyone.

---

I am not disputing your claim, but I am having trouble understanding what content people are blocked from. Aside from exclusive ownership, all the content of housing can be taken advantage of through other means (shared estates, join an FC with property). If you can do everything on the said property except have it directly linked to your name in the server database, what is being withheld content-wise? The friends in my FC have all the same rights as I do to the house short of being able to relinquish the property land. I do not know what content I'm getting out of it BEYOND them besides an intangible value of ownership. Nothing which brings me any physical advantage in the game or game content which only I can see.

1. Not every FC own a house. Thus they cannot use the FC workshop feature.
2. The FC will most likely limit some of the options. Not all of them will allow the ability to modify the outside decor or use the garden.
3. The garden from a house allow crossbreeding plants which can give items that can't be obtain anywhere else. Appartments potting don't allow it.
4. Fc chamber and appartment are limited to interior item.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by k99

I am not disputing your claim, but I am having trouble understanding what content people are blocked from.

---

You say there's no advantage to owning vs being allowed to walk on .... First off, not all FCs provide full access to all their members, so there are people out there who pay the same amount as you every month and aren't allowed to farm and get access to rare/unique experiences. Not to mention, having access to a house doesn't mean you can make it the way you want it to go. And who says "intangible" isn't still valuable? Why should I pay the same as you and still not get that benefit available to me in it's entirety? I honestly cannot comprehend how you can't see the difference between "Access to" and "Ownership of" Clearly you've never owned a house IRL. It's a world of difference to the vast majority of humans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by k99

At the end of the day, it was intended to be limited and unique, not easily accessible.

---

If there's no difference in owning/access then why do you say it's limited and unique? Either it's available to everyone and there's no difference, or it's limited and unique and not everyone gets access to it. You clearly see the difference with your own words, but you're coming across as wilfully obtuse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shanra

.

---

Then people's clear message should be "I want to have the house in my name because I want ownership satisfaction". But by confirming that your primary interest is that intangible value, you are validating exactly what Yoshida intended, which was limited and unique.

Please refrain from petty jabs. I do own a house. I am not insulting you for having an opinion. My having an opinion on housing in a game world does not define me, nor anyone else.

People were unhappy with my real life comparison earlier. Now, you want a real life comparison. Not everyone can have a house in the best areas just because they want. There is competition. Cash buyers vs Loans. Real housing is time limited, you can be beat out. If you want to go by digital life, then all I can conclude is that people are angry about intangible value of digital assets within a limited community. Not actual 'content'. Satisfaction is not content.

(1)
If it were limited and unique why not add a monetary value to it rather than dangle it in front of thousands who could all have it. I have the gil for a house, so do countless others. In my books that clearly devalues what is unique. Something we could have but can't due to a poor system. There are no alternatives which allow people access to the content housing does. I want one to sit in and decorate, grow some stuff in the garden, get away from the cities but still feel in one (if that makes sense) but what of the FC's who missed out who have now been blocked from content which they rightfully pay for. Regardless of whether they can complete said content they could at least participate but they can not because of what is clearly a rubbish system.

(2)
A rubbish system which ironically promotes RMT which SE takes action against simply because whoever in SE is too lazy to notice an impending problem long before it happens. Today's maintenance is no different - 4 hours to update to 4.1 a day ago, 5 hour emergency maintenance now. How do you manage that?!

Filthy bums. Don't you know only land owning citizens get a say. Get a job bums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Erudito

And there they are, the “we need more wards” comments. Dudes and dudettes of the 14th, no amount of ward addition is gonna solve this.

The way they made the system makes the problem unsolvable. They would need to change the entire housing system just to get a shot at trying to fix it.

But this is not the Japanese forum so they won’t listen to us. Why would they? They don’t care and they already have our money.

So yeah, way to go SE.

---

Well aren't you a sunshine. If they didn't care for feedback there would be no solo worlds maintnances like on Shiva recently. They would not even bother message us here. Stop whining, enjoy the news.

Besides, most of the backlash is just butthurt people who didn't get their house. It ain't SE's fault that they can only provide limited spots, and it sure ain't their fault that you lost in this competetive enviroment. If others got the houses, so could you, everyone has the same chances regarding their service.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by k99

snip

---

Here's the thing. In real life, if there's no houses available, you can submit a planning request to your council to build your own (at least in the UK, you may have to buy some land first, but there's plenty land you can buy here). You can apply to add a new house to the economy and have it built. Of course, you then have to make sure you have the people available to build it, but it is possible. There is no such system like that in the game. Let's say we were to go instanced housing, everyone who has the gil can then make an application to "Her Primal's Department for Housing and Rural Affairs", and receive a plot. They then build a house (equiv of getting the right people IRL to build it).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feosingame

It ain't SE's fault that they can only provide limited spots, and it sure ain't their fault that you lost in this competetive enviroment.

---

What? Of course its their fault, ITS THEIR GAME. They aren't running into some unmovable problem of physics or logic, they just won't implement a system that will allow it. Either more server space or an instancing system that can load and unload houses at will allowing the overall load to flux in direct reaction to use. Its amazing to me how people will act like developers are just stewarding some world with different physics when in fact THEY CAN CHANGE ANYTHING THEY WANT. If something isn't being done in a game there is someone along the chain of development saying 'no.'

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feosingame

It ain't SE's fault that they can only provide limited spots...

---

Indeed, its really a pity limited spots can't be solved and no other game, like Warframe and LotRO just to name a few succeeded in making housing more democratic and better designed than what we are.

Its really a pity we are living with a problem with no solution.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feosingame

Besides, most of the backlash is just butthurt people who didn't get their house. It ain't SE's fault that they can only provide limited spots, and it sure ain't their fault that you lost in this competetive enviroment. If others got the houses, so could you, everyone has the same chances regarding their service.

---

So if someone is born with autism and want some assistance/fairness it means the person with autism is butthurting? So if some's net is weaker or pc is slower or location is far from datacentre or playing on a PS3/4, is it their fault they cant compete with a person that lived close the data centre and have 100gb ram pc? You are delusional with your argument.

What if it is a kid who has no income to get a new gear but enough to pay monthly sub gets content locked up because of luck?

Problem is people lack empathy in understanding everyone's situation.

The current situation is indeed entirely unacceptable. To the point that people without houses are still paying the same monthly fee as people who do have houses. The homeless are paying for content that they have no access to.

I just spent a total of 28 hours across the last 36 hours camping 3 different housing plots to try and get a house, only to fail each time. I know that the housing situation is well knowing amongst long time players but as someone who is relatively new (6 months), I frankly didn't believe it was as bad as people claimed until I had actually experienced it for myself.

I work in the games industry (on MMOs, in fact) and I'm legitimately stunned that the current system was be allowed to go live as it is not to mention that it has existed in the game for well over a year. This is the kind of system that should have existed for *maybe* a month while a patch or hotfix was worked on to solve the root problem around RMT and scalping. The fact that the timer can go for up to 24hrs is actually a liability/safety concern with legal implications. It's stunning that square enix hasn't faced actual litigation for this yet in its current form. I did the math and in the 18 hours I camped one of these plots I input roughly 470,000 "clicks" (I had to break it up between mouse, keyboard, and controller usage to prevent actual injury).

A few suggestions (which I'm sure have been suggested countless times here):
1. Make it a simple lottery. When a plot becomes available you put your name in the hat and pay the cost of the plot and its luck of the draw. If you win it, the game keeps your money and you get the plot. If you lose, most of your money is returned.
2. Make the timer be up for a maximum of 4 hours to prevent health concerns and injury. 24 is far too much and is dangerous.

I know the argument is "well if you really want it you'll endure this to get it" and while that is true, the reality is just because people are willing to do it doesn't mean its safe for them to do so, and game developers bear some of the responsibility for the health of their players in how they design and implement their systems. I grinded to Rank 14 in original World of Warcraft, which was another legendarily grueling and unhealthy grind, but even that was able to be managed by organized players via setting daily or weekly honor caps and effectively "fixing" the brackets, and you could theoretically arrange breaks or plan out your time around the grind. You could even more or less estimate what your gains would be each week, ensuring that "eventually" you do get what you want. It's entirely possible with housing to just be unlucky and miss nabbing your plot by a fraction of a second every time you try, forever.

In closing, this is--with no hyperbole--the worst and most actually legally dangerous game system I've ever encountered in an MMO. Its cruelty is on a whole different level from anything that came before it, and this is coming from a former rank 14 pvper from WoW. Change this immediately. Don't add new plots, don't add new wards, don't do ANYTHING to the game until this is changed. Run, don't walk, to do literally anything else with the timer system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PartyBarn

1. Make it a simple lottery. When a plot becomes available you put your name in the hat and pay the cost of the plot and its luck of the draw. If you win it, the game keeps your money and you get the plot. If you lose, most of your money is returned.

---

You're right, that's been suggested hundreds of times.

Want to know why it won't work?

Bots.

If 2000 bots and 20 players apply for a house, who gets it? A bot? Yup.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PartyBarn

1. Make it a simple lottery. When a plot becomes available you put your name in the hat and pay the cost of the plot and its luck of the draw. If you win it, the game keeps your money and you get the plot. If you lose, most of your money is returned.

---

i don't want to play a lottery to win a house. Sorry but that isn't the answer. I'd much rather see them limit a timer to an hour to prevent instant transfers for money or have the timer removed all together. Housing was around for years without a timer. It's certainly better than praying to the rng gods with a lottery and is certainly better than having to click a placard for up to 12 hours or more.

And believe me I know all about timers I won a small FC house on Balmung clicking a timer for hours. The current system sucks and should be fixed.

The fact the timer is weighted to around 12 hours is just nonsensical to me.

If it has to be done this way, why can't it be one or two hours?

It has nothing to do with SE "not caring". They do care. But thing is, the amount of subs they retain between patches with limited housing is a lot larger than the tilted people actually unsubbing because they can't get a house.
Anyone half committed in getting a house either has one at this point or has alternate methods to get one even in the present anyway.

thing is if they just let everyone have a house you would have 100s of empty wards = not efficient = extra unneeded cost for servers.

That they add more wards now and then when populations explode more and more for FFXIV is a good enough sign already, also they should remove grandfathering and dual FC housing and more, that would on the especially exposed servers for that remove up quite the amount of slots when they go down to 1 house and 1 FC house per account... also putting back on Auto Demolition would be anice feature.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shibi

The fact the timer is weighted to around 12 hours is just nonsensical to me.

If it has to be done this way, why can't it be one or two hours?

---

I mean, IS IT weighted around 12h? One of the plots I camped this weekend was reportedly up for a total of 13h (I was there for 9h), and the other was up for 18h before popping. The one I was looking at last night but didnt actively camp was also up for at least 16h. Most people I talk to seem to get theirs to pop at the 12-16h mark and I've not seen or heard of one shorter than 12h total, yet.

I'ts actually insane that SE would do this to players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PartyBarn

I mean, IS IT weighted around 12h? One of the plots I camped this weekend was reportedly up for a total of 13h (I was there for 9h), and the other was up for 18h before popping. The one I was looking at last night but didnt actively camp was also up for at least 16h. Most people I talk to seem to get theirs to pop at the 12-16h mark and I've not seen or heard of one shorter than 12h total, yet.

I'ts actually insane that SE would do this to players.

---

It is because of the players and also RMT factions... Real Estate used to be a thing.. for both heavy RMT and players earning serious fortunes on re-selling plots, which goes against the ToS... it has to be like this with these cooldowns, because of the players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Themarvin

It is because of the players and also RMT factions... Real Estate used to be a thing.. for both heavy RMT and players earning serious fortunes on re-selling plots, which goes against the ToS... it has to be like this with these cooldowns, because of the players.

---

I disagree. There are many many many options that don't involve spam clicking a placard for up to 24 straight hours. Hell, make it so that its the same timer but at a random point during that timer you get a system message if you are near the placard telling you that it will be available for purchase in less than a minute. THEN people still can't predict when it will pop, but it won't require you to spam click. As soon as you see this message, then you can start spam clicking. That at least would be preferable to having it be possible to pop at any second within that entire timespan, and prevent injury. I'm not looking for it to be easy or frictionless, I'm looking for it to not be physically painful or dangerous from a health perspective.

Not mention how bad this system is from an accessibility standpoint. what if you have a disability and cannot spam click for that amount of time? At that point, automation is really the only option.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Themarvin

It is because of the players and also RMT factions... Real Estate used to be a thing.. for both heavy RMT and players earning serious fortunes on re-selling plots, which goes against the ToS... it has to be like this with these cooldowns, because of the players.

---

Right now, yes, there is huge RMT capability in plots. It's trivial for a gil farmer to get a new level 6 FC up and thenif they can attach a FC plot as well sell that for 50 million for a small. (This makes me fear teleport hacks will be used on the 13th)

But I don't see the reason for a 12+ hour timer. Make it 1 hour of clicking, maybe 2. That will surely achieve the same aim?

(Or just add purchasable extra rooms including balcony to apartments)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlackMoor

I love the irony of RTX3080 replying to a 3-year old post complaining about the housing situation by saying "just be patient".

---

He is desperate right now lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shibi

Right now, yes, there is huge RMT capability in plots. It's trivial for a gil farmer to get a new level 6 FC up and thenif they can attach a FC plot as well sell that for 50 million for a small. (This makes me fear teleport hacks will be used on the 13th)

But I don't see the reason for a 12+ hour timer. Make it 1 hour of clicking, maybe 2. That will surely achieve the same aim?

(Or just add purchasable extra rooms including balcony to apartments)

---

I agree to that, maybe make it a random dice from 1 to 5 hours, at least it wont waste peoples time too much, and also keeps it unpredictable.

At this point they should burn the entire thing down to the ground and rework it from the ground up... Getting a virtual house in a video game shouldn't be this stressful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ftail

At this point they should burn the entire thing down to the ground and rework it from the ground up... Getting a virtual house in a video game shouldn't be this stressful.

---

As much as I would hate losing the plots I've fought hard for, I'm just gonna have to say yeah, that'd be about the best COA

Yes, it is unacceptable. They should either go the route of WildStar styled Instanced housing where you choose your neighbors, or focus on netcode / server infrastructure to handle 1 housing plot per player maybe FORCE Medium / Large to FC only.

(1) Waking up early just to get a house is discourteous to players.
(2) Player getting 90001 or 5001 errors and losing all chances is garbage.

Almost 7 years playing and I still can't get a medium. I'm out, I know my sub doesn't matter - drop in the bucket and I won't be missed.

I just feel so damn defeated right now.

A lobby error immediately threw me out of the game. That delay of twenty seconds put me in a queue of over 1,855. The number went down to 1,255 after eleven minutes. 431 after twenty-one minutes.

Years-long artificial scarcity of housing is ridiculous, and easily the worst thing about FFXIV.

Instance the housing.

Find every player character and FC who owns multiple houses and make them choose only one to keep.

Be clearer about what exactly you are doing, and how often, to fix this issue.

FFXI famously caused physical illness with a boss fight that took over 24 hours for the first attempters to complete. The devs saw the problem. The solution was immediate. Do you think your players push themselves any less for this?

Learn from the past.

What you are doing with regard to housing is simply adversarial to your players. It is not hostile. Not yet. But it is adversarial.

It discourages further customer commitment, not only to the game but to the company. Do not think it doesn't.

Make rectifying it a priority.

I can totally agree to this.
There need to be someone at SE who pull out their head chopping tool and go have heads roll. Now its no longer a matter of bad system. Now its a matter of not listenong or carring.

Lets unsubscribe for a month and let the money talk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acanius

Almost 7 years playing and I still can't get a medium. I'm out, I know my sub doesn't matter - drop in the bucket and I won't be missed.

I just feel so damn defeated right now.

---

I too am defeated. I can't look at this game without getting a sour feeling in my stomach remembering the HUNDREDS of hours I have clicked on placards. At least they won't be getting my money any more.

Unsub on today, patch day, and let your money talk for you.