What happened to SB (story)?

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Originally Posted by demonofelru

The other Warriors of Light are referenced by Mimodi if you start in Uldah. She mentions the heroes that saved them previously (1.0 players). The Warriors of Light from 1.0 still exist and the cinematic at the beginning of 2.0 shows there are more than one.
The canon on this is not questionable. The game straight up says there is more than one Warrior of Light. Game trumps lore book.

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Momodi (and the NPCs at the other adventurer guilds) mention brave adventurers who fought at the Battle of Carteneau in an attempt to prevent the calamity, they are commonly referred to as the 'Warriors of Light' because no one is able to remember them properly and instead when trying to recall them see only silhouettes surrounded by bright light.

Your character ends up as the replacement for these Warriors of Light (except legacy players, who I believe get slightly different dialogue.)

Echo users are reasonably plentiful though, more adventurous echo users should for the most part not be that far away from us capability wise. You do after all tend to take 7 of them with you when fighting Primals.

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Originally Posted by demonofelru

The other Warriors of Light are referenced by Mimodi if you start in Uldah. She mentions the heroes that saved them previously (1.0 players). The Warriors of Light from 1.0 still exist and the cinematic at the beginning of 2.0 shows there are more than one.
The canon on this is not questionable. The game straight up says there is more than one Warrior of Light. Game trumps lore book.

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The innkeeper of your starting city-state says that they were given the title Warrior of Light, meaning there were, not that there are. At this point the title exclusively refers to the person with the Blessing of Hydaelyn, of which there is only one. There are plenty of other Echo users, but not other Warriors of Light.

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

If that's how you feel then why are you even here? Lol.

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Because despite what you may think, theres more to the game than the crappy story content. I like the combat, the crafting systems, I enjoy the aesthetics of the game. And I like having player housing, something World of Warcraft didn't offer me.

I love FFXIV. I just think the story is total crap.

I had issues with the rescue of Krile. First of all, I was disappointed that she was not killed on the spot, but that's just a personal viewpoint on her entire race. When she was pulled from the box, I saw all of these other closed boxes and wondered why we didn't put her back and spin the wheel for a chance at a better reward. Why didn't we at least check the other boxes?

One dark direction I hope they go... both Lyse and Alisae made comments to the effect that they felt relatively powerless in their roles... that they wished they could have MY power (literally said this). Umm, looks like they can with the benefit of technology, right? I could see either/both of them following the path to acquire power through questionable means "for the greater good" (to protect their people/follow in Luisoix's powerful footsteps). It's obvious that the WoL is being seen more and more as a tool. One growing in power that needs to be controlled or perhaps "transferred"? Lyse is a poser who has no real reason to be in her position. This must make her feel terribly guilty and inadequate. Alisae is growing in power and attitude. Perhaps not fast enough to suit her needs. Come on SE! Give us Darth Alisae and Darth Lysius (for comic relief)!

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Originally Posted by Dark-Saviour

Where was this said though?
The end has them refer to him as an experiment and a monster, but we don't know if that's only with respect to the modifications he had done to himself or if there's more to it. It feels like there's more to it, but they never elaborated.

And as for the resonance thing:
1) That shouldn't put him above us. Lyse et al? Sure.
2) Did he even have that ability at the start? It was specifically stated that he wanted Krile alive and the first we explicitly see of the whole resonance thing is after she has been hooked into the machine. It could be possible he already had echo-users in the other chambers, but it was never mentioned. If he did, then I don't know why the capture of Krile was so critical. And we also apparently abandoned them after freeing her?

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Originally Posted by Niraves

Because despite what you may think, theres more to the game than the crappy story content. I like the combat, the crafting systems, I enjoy the aesthetics of the game. And I like having player housing, something World of Warcraft didn't offer me.

I love FFXIV. I just think the story is total crap.

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Tli find that acceptable. Lol. That's why I played through Heavensward.
Hated that story but I still love the game.

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Originally Posted by demonofelru

The canon on this is not questionable. The game straight up says there is more than one Warrior of Light. Game trumps lore book.

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Even if the lore in both is written by Koji Fox? Also lets not forget that it also depends on the language. And we know that canonically we did Azys Lla completely alone which means that we defeat Regula, the whole dungeon, two Ascians and Thordan and his 12 knights alone. And lots of other primals do not make sense with other people there. In the end everyone can interpret it how they want but its definitely still questionable.

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Originally Posted by Cenerae

After beating Fordola, we knew that Zenos had the same source of power. But we also needed a special device to weaken Fordola so we could best her in combat. We employed no special tactics against Zenos, we just beat him down like anyone else. Which implies that Fordola is far stronger than Zenos (which is not how the story presents it).

As for Omega damaging Shinryu heavily, I want to point out that a relatively long time went by in game time between Omega and Shinryu fighting, and us getting to fight Shinryu. It certainly didn't look very hurt when we went to battle it, and I doubt that it being imprisoned by the Garleans had done more than make it really angry.

I'll take your point about the eyes, though. Though I suspect that Shinryu would have tried to raid somewhere with a lot of crystals, were it running out of aether to stay corporeal.

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Zenos vs Fordola, I don't think it implies that she is stronger than Zenos. Like we have seen powers the Echo can give varies wildly from the pedestrian understanding all language to flat out being able to become/control a primal. Where Fordola could see/feel disturbances in Aether to know what attack we were about to do without a trick it would've been a stalemate since our Echo gives us the same power essentially. Zenos' echo has yet to have been explained, it could be an entirely new form of the echo we are dealing with. Or it could be as simple as he is a battle hardened BA, and our journey to Level 70 along with our 3 'adventurer' companions were finally strong enough to over power him to the point where he needed to use his Echo.

Don't Primals also require fervent belief in them to maintain themselves as well? That is most likely why we defeated Shinryu, with everyone at the wall who 'believed' in the liberation of Ala Mihgo being mostly dead there are no faithful followers for him to feed on. Add into it that we don't exactly know how primals 'heal' perse. We saw that Bahamut needed the Coils not only to contain him but to restore himself, I don't recall reading anything about a primals ability to naturally heal itself like a physical being living being. I would assume it would need to absorb more aether which would require followers/crystals.

I still find it bad that Zenos was utterly trashing us at Rhalgrs reach..I still cant truly believe that he is stronger than all the void beasts in the 24 man runs, stronger than Thordan and his 12 knights, which were empowered by the dragon eyes, a thousand years of prayers, Lahabrea and the warring triad (and who we defeated alone..), also the two ascians which are masters of the echo and Regula and all the stuff in that dungeon..Also lets not forget that the fight against Nidhogg or the WoD did also not make us stronger (as in level up). So I am not sure if him being lvl 70 (ingame) is a good reason for him to be stronger, since I cant believe that things like levels truly exist in lore. (Otherwise a mere small animal in the new areas could defeat all the stuff we did at lvl 50) And its not like we did not fought impressive, nearly impossible otherworldly beings after reaching lvl 60, yet we never got a increase. Yet we never go against true monsters, other than two primals (which we also did in HW after lvl60), and still level up to 70.

It should have ended in a draw or maybe the WoL could have been hit by him while he was protecting someone else thus not able to fight fully back.

Generally the artificial echo being something that will power up people massively feels like a bad way to bring others to our level. I was already able to defeat Fordola twice before she turned into a Resonant. And suddenly she needed an deus ex machina item from Urianger to defeat her. We have the echo too and we are powerful..so why exactly do our enemies have that much of an advantage over us? Why could we still defeat beings like the ascians, master of the echos, without such a device (we could just not permanently kill them without massive amount of aether but we could still defeat them in a fight) yet a mere human that was experimented on, is suddenly able to use it very well and even better than us.

In the end I truly hope that this resonant stuff will end in a bad way for those that try it.

I'm really itching for 4.1 after seeing how open-ended SB's conclusion was compared to HW, which obviously left some loose strings

I think it's a given we'll be helping Ala Mhigo and Doma to re-establish themselves as nations, but I'm curious as to just what the empire is going to inevitably do to push us into moving into their territory.

IDK. I felt that the SB story was the strongest to be honest. It was told in whole without any real amount of filler type fetch quests. I'm not say it's perfect. But if you think 2.0's story was better then SB's then frankly you're nuts. Nothing even happens in 2.0's story till you fight Garuda at lvl 35.

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Originally Posted by SlayerOmega

IDK. I felt that the SB story was the strongest to be honest. It was told in whole without any real amount of filler type fetch quests. I'm not say it's perfect. But if you think 2.0's story was better then SB's then frankly you're nuts. Nothing even happens in 2.0's story till you fight Garuda at lvl 35.

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If you take the story(not talking quests here, but actual story) I felt 2.0 was spaced out more to be like a book. SB story, to me at least, felt like it was a short-story. Zenos should honestly have been dealt with LATER in the story. It just felt, while still good, rushed. Hopefully the next patches really flush it out and give more.

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Originally Posted by SlayerOmega

IDK. I felt that the SB story was the strongest to be honest. It was told in whole without any real amount of filler type fetch quests.

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It was full of filler.

They even lampshade the fact that you have to continually do mundane tasks for villagers to ingratiate yourself to them.
And even the primals felt like filler. They halfway lampshaded that with Susano as well with a, "Well, I'm sure there's SOME reason a primal appeared, something something Aether?"

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Originally Posted by Avatre

If you take the story(not talking quests here, but actual story) I felt 2.0 was spaced out more to be like a book. SB story, to me at least, felt like it was a short-story. Zenos should honestly have been dealt with LATER in the story. It just felt, while still good, rushed. Hopefully the next patches really flush it out and give more.

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We're still not done with SB though. This is just chapter one. That was my mindset going through the 3.0 story, and that was my mindset for how I at least was able to enjoy the 4.0 story at least a little bit.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

We're still not done with SB though. This is just chapter one. That was my mindset going through the 3.0 story, and that was my mindset for how I at least was able to enjoy the 4.0 story at least a little bit.

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While that is true, it just seems like we should have been much further into the story before we took down Zenos. He was supposed to be the ruler in both areas, and super powerful...but he died in no time. As someone else had pointed out(can't find the exact post about it right now) we needed a special item to take down the cat chick, and Zenos was supposed to be stronger...yet we dropped him by smacking him some dozen times.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

While that is true, it just seems like we should have been much further into the story before we took down Zenos. He was supposed to be the ruler in both areas, and super powerful...but he died in no time. As someone else had pointed out(can't find the exact post about it right now) we needed a special item to take down the cat chick, and Zenos was supposed to be stronger...yet we dropped him by smacking him some dozen times.

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And the same could be said of Thordan and completely upending Ishgardian rule in Heavensward. That could've been done later in that expansion as well, especially how he dispatched a persistent threat since 2.0 (Lahabrea) with practically no effort at all, and yet we beat him soundly in one go.

As strong as Zenos looked, he's still just the end of chapter one much like how Thordan was the end of chapter one. Unlike Heavensward though, there aren't as many hints as to what could happen later on.

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Originally Posted by Dark-Saviour

It was full of filler.

They even lampshade the fact that you have to continually do mundane tasks for villagers to ingratiate yourself to them.
And even the primals felt like filler. They halfway lampshaded that with Susano as well with a, "Well, I'm sure there's SOME reason a primal appeared, something something Aether?"

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Odin is summoned through Zantetsuken. Susano being summoned through items isn't exactly unprecedented, and any primal being active means they're sucking up the land's aether.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

And the same could be said of Thordan and completely upending Ishgardian rule in Heavensward. That could've been done later in that expansion as well, especially how he dispatched a persistent threat since 2.0 (Lahabrea) with practically no effort at all, and yet we beat him soundly in one go.

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While that is true, it felt more fleshed out because it was one area as opposed to two areas that are practically half way around the world from each other. Both Gyr Abannia and Doma really should have had more story in their liberations. Maybe, with how the after credit scene played out, we will get to see the issues from having them both liberated so quickly and trying to rebuild. Trying to get their governing bodies in place, rooting out any potential left over remnants, etc.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Odin is summoned through Zantetsuken. Susano being summoned through items isn't exactly unprecedented, and any primal being active means they're sucking up the land's aether.

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It was the entire way that whole scenario was handled. That whole scene basically felt like they were going, "LOL, yup. Here's a primal. Because sure, why not?"
(And I still say the Kojin were a poor choice if you wanted Susano to be bootleg Ravana).

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Originally Posted by Avatre

While that is true, it felt more fleshed out because it was one area as opposed to two areas that are practically half way around the world from each other. Both Gyr Abannia and Doma really should have had more story in their liberations. Maybe, with how the after credit scene played out, we will get to see the issues from having them both liberated so quickly and trying to rebuild. Trying to get their governing bodies in place, rooting out any potential left over remnants, etc.

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Now that I could agree with. Free one nation with the 4.0 story, use the rest of the story to free up the other. That was the only real gripe that I had with the story; that Doma kinda felt shoehorned into the story for not a whole lot of reason other than potential fan service.

And yes, we still have to deal with the stabilization of the two nations and probably other things on top of it.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

And the same could be said of Thordan and completely upending Ishgardian rule in Heavensward. T

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The problem is that Zenos and Shinryu really looked like the main bad guys in SB thus I too was quite shocked to have already finished them off. (Especially the latter) Thordan was one obstacle in the path towards peace but it was already established that there are two sides in that conflict. Him and Nidhogg. We already did defeat Nidhogg but since they eyes were still there one could believe that he was not done. And thus at the end of 3.0 he came back and we knew that the biggest fight was still going to happen. (And it was awesome) So nearly the whole expansion still had Nidhogg as the big bad threat, while I have no idea who will be our enemy in SB. (Other than Garlemald and the ascians; and any great evil who would be even stronger than our last enemy would just feel like coming out of nowhere..)

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Originally Posted by Dark-Saviour

(And I still say the Kojin were a poor choice if you wanted Susano to be bootleg Ravana).

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Susanoo is not a bootleg Ravana. I think I can see where you're coming from; they both have a deep enjoyment of what they do. The main difference is that Ravana is a God of War; he rejoices in combat because he loves fighting. The more he can fight, and conquer, the better he feels. Susanoo is a God of the Revel.

Susanoo takes great delight in everything he does and does what he takes great delight in doing. His mount's description amounts to "This is a cool dog but it could use more flying. Now we shall revel!" We only see him reveling in combat because we put him down immediately after he shows up. I bet he'd be a hit at the parties.

tl;dr: Ravana "Let us rejoice in combat for combat is glorious!"
Susanoo: "Let us revel in combat for reveling is grand in all we do!"

EDIT: I'm not versed enough on the Kojin themselves, but yes it is a bit jarring that a culture given to seclusion and collection of artifacts worship a God that celebrates being "wild and pure and forever free".

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

1) We only see him reveling in combat because we put him down immediately after he shows up. I bet he'd be a hit at the parties.

2) I'm not versed enough on the Kojin themselves, but yes it is a bit jarring that a culture given to seclusion and collection of artifacts worship a God that celebrates being "wild and pure and forever free".

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For 1, they should have fleshed him out more or played with the fight more if that was the direction they wanted to go; combat seems to be his initial go-to. Had he initially said, "Nah screw fighting. Let's party!" until you pressed him, that characterization would fit better. Likewise, if the fight were broken up with more "whimsical" elements (Like what Halicarnassus does with the desert bit), it would sit better as well.

For 2, the Kojin god really should have been more like Gilgamesh from F/SN. Just spams a bunch of random treasures that he covets.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

EDIT: I'm not versed enough on the Kojin themselves, but yes it is a bit jarring that a culture given to seclusion and collection of artifacts worship a God that celebrates being "wild and pure and forever free".

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The Kojin do not worship or believe in a single deity. The believe in the Kami, which are many. They fanatically collect artifacts and trinkets that hold ancient energies or possibly Kami, the three token items they especially coveted were felt to house a particularly strong Kami and the value in that led to their obsession over them in particular. When Susan first appeared, they were drawn to him because he is, to them, a Kami and could bring them great prosperity.

To be honest I suspect 4.X and 5.X will end up playing out as one large Garlemald arc. In many ways Zenos was our main villain in 4.0 but clearly there was more going on that we only just touched on with Garlean experiments and the fallout from the uprisings.

The patch cycle will almost certainly deal with the fallout of the liberations. Doma should be pretty sound but Ala Mhigo will be a problem, something the NPCs in game comment on. There is no unified structure and the people of Ala Mhigo make up many different factions, settlements and resistance groups that are going to all have to come to a concencus on how to build a new government or there is going to be risk of further conflict. That is way easier said than done.

Personally I really liked SB's story. It was clearly laying the seeds for a lot of future developments while telling a pretty straight forward story but one with some very interesting details and developments.

I always felt like patches 3.1-3.3 were more dealt in cleanup with some interferance with those pesky Warriors of Darkness, and it felt like the story of Ishgard probably could ended at the Reactor; most, if not all, of the loose ends were pretty soundly tied up. For this, we actually have a good number of loose ends yet up in the air: the refounding of Doma and Ala Mhigo under new leadership, and their relationship with the Eorzean Alliance; the fate of Fordola and the remaining Skulls; the identity of the White Ascian; the Garlean response to the loss of two kingdoms; finding out when Magnai will make me hi--erm, make Cirina his wife...

I liked Stormblood better but I do think the pacing is way too quick for two nations to be immediately liberated. I also liked the characters there better (except Yotsuyu and Zenos who are just disgusting people lol)
The Primals seem out of place in the story though and they're just there to follow the formula.

Other than that, hopefully the next patches means we help rebuild Doma and there will be more about the far east because it was the best part of SB.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

However, you do have to remember that XIV's story is little more than an interactive book, while there is some flexability in things ultimately the story will play out in exactly the way SE wants to tell it which means they can't really give us "impactful" choices. On top of that, they have to code all of this in and they only have limited resources to do that, so they give us the best they can while still adhering to the previous limitation.

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I am aware that I wasn't going to have an "impactful" choice, that wasn't my complaint though. My complaint is that, for the first time (and multiple times after that) my choice was as clear as mud. It felt like the speech system from fallout 4 where you don't actually know what you're really going to say. I just wanted clarity; instead I felt betrayed by being mislead. And for a point in the story that's supposed to lock in that feeling of inclusion, it failed miserably.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

You're right, the Devs wanted it that way, they wanted a couple things actually:
1. They wanted us to look at Zenos and wonder what the heck he actually is.
2. They wanted to show that there is a LOT of things about the world and about the Echo (which is what makes us the WoL) that our characters, the Scions and ourselves don't know.
3. They wanted us to HATE Zenos, more than we've ever hated anyone before.

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I honestly could care less about what the devs wanted me to see, my point was the fact that I was thinking of the devs at all. That's not supposed to happen. I want to get lost in the story like I did with ARR and HW - when Haurchefant was killed I began to cry a little. I immediately hated the knight responsible and wanted to murder the character. I was thinking about the knight, about Thordan, about all the evil that I was up against. But when I faced Xenos, my immediate thought was "Why did the devs attempt to create a 'starting from scratch' feeling? Why would they make that story choice?" It was the moment I stopped caring about Xenos and what he was. If he was going to beat me, then fine. But to do it in the way they did it was bad writing.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

...Actually letting them carry on served his purpose because Zenos wanted one thing above all others: A worthy opponent that could make him feel -anything-.

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So killing everyone at Rhalgar's Reach helped him do that? That was a morale killing blow, and the only reason it didn't end the rebellion was because we convinced them to continue. Kemp literally said "Our fight is over." Fordola's goal was this exact thing, so that her people could eventually become accepted citizens of the empire. That is the exact opposite of what Zenos wanted, yet not only did he allow the action, he acted as the final nail in that coffin. And to say that Xenos knew that the alliance would motivate the Ala Mhigans would be meta, which is also poor writing. I stand by my words.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

I agree that this zone was technically smaller than it should have been, but I decided that this archipelago was the Westernmost portion of the sea and that entrance was just a boat ride between Kugane and the Ruby Toll.

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I'm glad that you were able to come to terms with that design decision, it means you were able to enjoy the area more than I was. But for me, that's different. I'm a huge stickler for details, and putting the main base of the confederation (with all of 2 war ships) right at the western-most portion on the sea, practically on Doma's shores, did everything to make the world feel very small. We were in a new land, yet it felt so very small.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

I think there's more to Yotsuyo's story that we don't know yet and will get in later story as we progress through the patches.

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What they decide to do with her later is up to later, but for all intents and purposes, they took the potential emotional masterpiece of a scorned woman with no sense of home and avoided it whenever someone asked why. She had so much to work with and we got none of it while we were most interested in her backstory. Once we finally do get her backstory, we've already lost quite a bit of that initial curiosity. Instead of a "Wow, she's had a really hard life." moment, I get a "So that explains it." feeling. The timing was so incredibly bad that I lost a potential moment of genuine awe and reflection.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

This was because Yugiri lost her patience with their people of Doma and she was dedicated to saving her master's life, even if it meant throwing away her own life. She doesn't want Hien to die, and she doesn't want him to die because the people don't have the courage to fight. Also, remember, that up until this point Yugiri hasn't had any real "skin in the game", as it were. She wasn't in her homeland before, but she is now so everything is much, much more personal here.

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I will respectfully disagree with you here. I don't see it that way. We didn't get any previous indication that she was beginning to fray so badly at the edges from dialogue with her. She wasn't happy in that uncanny way, there was also nothing desperate from her dialogue. Until suddenly she finds out Xenos will be near by; and then she seems to lose it. Don't get me wrong, I love to make similar assumptions which can be very logical. And if she were showing signs of breaking down well before that point, I'd definitely agree with you. But due to the way it all happened so suddenly, and with no prior signs she was wearing so thin, I just don't agree this time. For all I know, you're right about what the story writers were thinking. However, their execution of this event just sucked.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

We always turn the dial up to 11 like this... Nothing new here.

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Actually, there is something new here. The buildup that we got to every story arc conclusion was proportionate to the ending we received. The dial is slowly turned up to 9-10 before it finally gets cranked up to 11. This time though, it wasn't there. The dial was at a 3-4 and suddenly got cranked up to 11. My complaint isn't the ending - that was epic - but the disconnect of the buildup. In other words: "Why was the buildup not a buildup?" There's this thing called the plot diagram that loosely depicts how a climax ought to be achieved with the best payoff; it's considered good writing practice. But there was nearly no rising action before the final climax, which made the event just pass by like a small town on a long drive: blink and you miss it.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

Yoshida was very clear that this Expac is NOT about the Ascians (even though everything eventually comes down to Ascians... I'm not saying it was Ascians... But it was Ascians), but more about Garlemald and dismantling more of their influence.

That's about all I have here, I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the story, I found it quite enjoyable, but you really needed to understand the subtext and the character motivations in order to know WHY things happened the way they did. I hope you find things more enjoyable in the patches to come.

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I understand the subtext, character motivations, and why things happened. My issue isn't that those things are non-existent, but that they were done so poorly. This is a Final Fantasy game, story is a big deal. People hated other ff games and raged against Square Enix for some of the games that lacked in the execution of the story. XIII makes a good example of this. I was thoroughly pulled into the story for ARR and HW, but SB just made so many errors in story execution via poor writing/design decisions that I am extremely disappointed this time around. Uniting the three nations of ARR felt huge and epic. One war against dragons felt absolutely massive and the subplots were insane and insanely well done. But a war on two fronts felt tiny, made nearly all the actions my character took feel tiny, and wrecked my immersion in both the game and story.

And as far as the Ascians go, HW wasn't about them either. But they made enough of a splash that we always felt under pressure from two threats/struggles. It was a brilliant way to create that sense of urgency. And if Yoshida wanted them to have no existence during the events of SB my question then becomes, "Why on earth would that be a good idea?" If you think that excluding them almost completely and having our allies seem to forget they exist was a good idea, I won't argue with you. That part is completely subjective. But you have made me realize that they haven't lost track of the plot (so thank you for that). They've just lost track of professionalism when it comes to building a story. They (I will not pin this on one person, that would be ridiculous) get paid to work on a final fantasy title, something known for generally having an amazing story. Is it too much to expect a story that at least comes close to the previous two expansions in terms of both world and character building? They could have done most of what they did much better if they decided to slow down the advancement of the story.

I probably would have not had any cause to write what I did if 4.0 ended with the first fight against Xenos in Rhalgar's Reach. If the same length of campaign and 6 of the 8 new maps were dedicated to just the first half of the Ala Mhigan resistance story, it could have been so much better. Too much was attempted with not enough and a lot suffered for it.

Anyways, I genuinely thank you for your comment. You have caused me to think over my initial post, and while not much of my opinion has changed, it has caused me to think. Thank you. The community of this game will always be awesome.

Folks keep complaining that the Ruby Sea is too small. Guys. pls.
It's only a sea. It's not an ocean.

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

A sea is a large body of salt water that is surrounded in whole or in part by land.

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No minimum size mentioned there.

And here is a real life sea:
https://images.mapsofworld.com/allwo...cation-Map.jpg

That's the Dead Sea. It's only about 11 miles across at its widest point.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

3. They wanted us to HATE Zenos, more than we've ever hated anyone before.

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lmao if that was their goal they failed spectacularly. I (and many others I know of the fancying-men persuasion) found him disturbingly attractive :')

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Originally Posted by Quoyan

lmao if that was their goal they failed spectacularly. I (and many others I know of the fancying-men persuasion) found him disturbingly attractive :')

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While he's generally pretty, they did a fine job in giving him those creepy vacant eyes. I still could not hate him, just pity him the way I would pity an animal whose brain is destroyed by rabies.

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Originally Posted by Vayanne

While he's generally pretty, they did a fine job in giving him those creepy vacant eyes. I still could not hate him, just pity him the way I would pity an animal whose brain is destroyed by rabies.

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I can see where pity would come in tbh. I mean, in a lot of ways he's kind of a victim of circumstance himself (can almost guarantee his childhood/upbringing was all kinds of screwed up)

I think I just have a soft spot for the damaged-villain type... rip :')

That was one of the things I really liked about SB though, honestly. Zenos, Yotsuyu, and Fordola all had dimension to them. Sure, they were the villains, but they were also really human. (Well, Zenos was arguably damaged to the point of psychopathy, but you could still feel for him.)
I like it when the "bad guy" has that element of humanity to them. Not to the point where you're rooting for them, necessarily, but at least to the point where you're like "damn... you had it rough" or whatever. You empathise with them, even if you don't agree with them.

I feel like in the more recent storyline areas SE's done a really god job with this. Nidhogg and the Warriors of Darkness had a good solid dose of it, too.

Damn. Some people are difficult to please. Then again, so am I, in certain... areas... I didn't wanna do this, but I need to rant a little bit, too.

The after-credit scene. I like Gosetsu. Yotsuyu had my pity, but she made her choice, and paid for it. Gosetsu lived the life of a samurai, and his duty was complete... OR WAS IT?! This is a problem I had when watching a certain anime show called "Bleach". When they made a character look like they were dead--like, they should have been dead--that character came back A-OK ten minutes later.

SE... please, for the love of God, don't drop death flags for characters you don't intend to kill off. Not only is it a major pet peeve of mine, it makes me think that, now, whenever I see someone take enough damage to, you know, KILL THEM, they're just going to turn up A-OK later on.

*sigh*

EDIT: At this risk of sounding like a know-it-all jerk, "worry" is a staple in effective storytelling. The players want to "worry" about their favorite characters. You guys really pulled this off at the end of ARR, with the Bloody Banquet. Imagine if you REALLY KILLED THE SULTANA. Seriously, imagine it for a second, SE. If the Sultana seriously died in that scene, that'd have made the HW story, and even the SB story, more interesting.

Unless that's not the kind of story you're looking to tell?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quoyan

Folks keep complaining that the Ruby Sea is too small. Guys. pls.
It's only a sea. It's not an ocean.


No minimum size mentioned there.

And here is a real life sea:
https://images.mapsofworld.com/allwo...cation-Map.jpg

That's the Dead Sea. It's only about 11 miles across at its widest point.

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This is a link to the ffxiv world map:
http://imgur.com/qYMg2XF

The Ruby sea area is much, much bigger than the sea you have referenced.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quite

This is a link to the ffxiv world map:
http://imgur.com/qYMg2XF

The Ruby sea area is much, much bigger than the sea you have referenced.

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That's exactly my point?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quite

This is a link to the ffxiv world map:
http://imgur.com/qYMg2XF

The Ruby sea area is much, much bigger than the sea you have referenced.

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It's not like every other area in the game is accurate to the size referenced in that map anyway.
Look at the Azim Steppe and Yanxia, compared to Gyr Abania, both are bigger than Gyr Abania in the map but in-game Gyr Abania has 3 zones while the Steppe and Yanxia only have one each.

Yugiri made it clear the you only visit a small part of the Azim Steppes, which extends well beyond the map borders.

If it was a small part of the steppe then they shouldn't have outright called it "The Azim Steppe" and made it clear that it's just a part of it in the name of the zone like what they did with Eorzean zones. Same for Yanxia if it's also apparently just a fraction of the region.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

If it was a small part of the steppe then they shouldn't have outright called it "The Azim Steppe" and made it clear that it's just a part of it in the name of the zone like what they did with Eorzean zones. Same for Yanxia if it's also apparently just a fraction of the region.

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Think they did that just to indicate we arent going to be seeing more of Yangxia and the steppe. Imagine if we had gotten Eastern Steppes and never got any other counterpart.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Enur

Think they did that just to indicate we arent going to be seeing more of Yangxia and the steppe. Imagine if we had gotten Eastern Steppes and never got any other counterpart.

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Don't depress me like that. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Enur

Think they did that just to indicate we arent going to be seeing more of Yangxia and the steppe. Imagine if we had gotten Eastern Steppes and never got any other counterpart.

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We were stuck with Central Highlands for a while in Coerthas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

We were stuck with Central Highlands for a while in Coerthas.

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because they always planned to add another part (unlike the Steppes).