Possible patch delay

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rizon

At least this gives me a 2 day headstart on the latest patch for FFXI. As it is I am going to have to spend my days on FFXIV and my nights on FFXI just to get cought up on everything. Want to have everything shipshape prior the the release of FFXIII-2 at the end of January

---

CAN'T WAIT FOR THAT GAME!!!! OST is out and already on youtube! Can't wait to get my OST :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

CAN'T WAIT FOR THAT GAME!!!! OST is out and already on youtube! Can't wait to get my OST :D

---

Enjoy the chocobo song.

/puke

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilean

Enjoy the chocobo song.

/puke

---

Did I quote you?

I think not

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

Did I quote you?

I think not

---

Does it make any difference?

I think not

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilean

Does it make any difference?

I think not

---

Means I wasn't speaking to you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilean

Enjoy the chocobo song.

/puke

---

The chocobo song is the best part of the game, because it is such masterful trolling. Fanboys am cry and I will laugh at their expense.

Same deal with Kojima and MGR: REVENGEANCE. Keep on hatin', haters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

Means I wasn't speaking to you

---

See if I care.

Quote:

---

The chocobo song is the best part of the game, because it is such masterful trolling. Fanboys am cry and I will laugh at their expense.

---

Whatever helps you sleep at night. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilean

See if I care.



Whatever helps you sleep at night. :)

---

Keep trollin' away You seem to be good at it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xatsh

More careful with dates probably = not tell us until all testing is finished most likely.

So less information because we cannot handle it, and much more things hidden. Because people just do not understand how programing works, and think a set deadline in programing actually means anything.

---

Another white knight who so readily takes the blame for SE's mistakes. And yes coding deadlines in games industry do happen and they can be met if the staff is capable enough. Especially when it comes to minor tweaks. It would be different if the release of the whole game was on the line but it seems that was the one deadline they were truly committed to. =__=

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

Keep trollin' away You seem to be good at it

---

You trolled yourself with my silly random (that half the internets seem to agree with) comment. You could have let it go but you had to react like you composed the damn thing. :p

In my opinion the devs should shoot for smaller patches and quicker releases to avoid this kind of thing. One bug in one feature ends up delaying the entire patch for a few days when the players have already been waiting for a couple months. Combat reworking and new content I can forgive, but did we really need to wait this long just to get player search or repair adjustments?

Although I suppose with the horrible patcher in place large and infrequent patches might actually be better after all!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hubert

In my opinion the devs should shoot for smaller patches and quicker releases to avoid this kind of thing. One bug in one feature ends up delaying the entire patch for a few days when the players have already been waiting for a couple months. Combat reworking and new content I can forgive, but did we really need to wait this long just to get player search or repair adjustments?

Although I suppose with the horrible patcher in place large and infrequent patches might actually be better after all!

---

This ^


And lol@patcher comment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seif

Another white knight who so readily takes the blame for SE's mistakes. And yes coding deadlines in games industry do happen and they can be met if the staff is capable enough. Especially when it comes to minor tweaks. It would be different if the release of the whole game was on the line but it seems that was the one deadline they were truly committed to. =__=

---

Another Worthless Troll who doesn't have a clue what they are talking about, but thinks they do.

Devs gave us info based on their best info, happens there was a unforeseen error. It is extremely common in programing every studio has it happen to them. And not just gaming. If you want to argue with me... tell me 1 game or 1 Major product that does not have hotfixes after major updates. Want to know why those exist... screw up in code. The devs could of released the game, but why do it when there is a critical but rare issues that could happen. Better then doing the old Aion style rollback... imagine the rage if SE removed 48hrs of all progress from everyone.

Microsoft, Apple, SE, Blizzard, EA, Bioware, NcSoft, Nintendo, and many more take your pick they all had delays due to coding errors. So call me a white knight but it only proves your ignorance or stupidity when it comes to programing.

You realize 1 Word in 10000 lines of codes can make 100,000+ lines of code on multiple pages not work or work in a way it was not intended. And try finding that when there are no error codes lighting up on the dev software.

Hitting Deadlines are great things, but there is no company in the history of gaming that has hit them all the time not even on a single online game.

My Statements about what they will probably do is all true. Because people like you cry bloody murder when there is a minor delay in a very large patch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilean

You trolled yourself with my silly random (that half the internets seem to agree with) comment. You could have let it go but you had to react like you composed the damn thing. :p

---

This wouldn't have happened if you didn't say /puke which you are trying to troll me when I wasn't even talk to you or anything about you.. just joining in on the Excitement with a fellow that wants the game as much as I do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xatsh

Another Worthless Troll who doesn't have a clue what they are talking about, but thinks they do.

---

Why for people with 50 50s complaining about SE's screw ups is always trolling? /sigh

I am 50% with you, 50% with him. Bugs may be part of software developing but there are also processes and practices to keep quality within acceptable levels.


Tanaka Team's code maybe a huge pile of unholy manure but you would think that a year later they would have gotten it enough under control to stop being late on every single major patch...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

actualy, unprofessional would be releasing a patch with a gamebreaking bug knowlingly

---

Wasn't this launch?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

This wouldn't have happened if you didn't say /puke which you are trying to troll me when I wasn't even talk to you or anything about you.. just joining in on the Excitement with a fellow that wants the game as much as I do.

---

In my defense: I didn't say "/pukeInYourGeneralDirection" :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dallie

Wasn't this launch?

---

nope, launch wasnt a gamebreaking bug
it was just a game that the devs at that time shouldnt have released yet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

nope, launch wasnt a gamebreaking bug
it was just a game that the devs at that time shouldnt have released yet

---

I should know better than to attempt sarcasm in this forum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

nope, launch wasnt a gamebreaking bug
it was just a game that the devs at that time shouldnt have released yet

---

What? It was practically malware!


Like in that Win95 is a virus joke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowyne

I never thought I'd wish for Chuck Norris jokes to make a comeback.

---

Chuck Norris can do whatever he wants, even after taking an arrow to the knee, while eating the sweetroll he stole from you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StateAlchemist

Chuck Norris can do whatever he wants, even after taking an arrow to the knee, while eating the sweetroll he stole from you.

---

I used to be Chuck Norris, then i took an arrow to the knee

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

I used to be Chuck Norris, then i took an arrow to the knee

---

The old and the new so beautifully mixed to gether... :)

The opposite of White Knight must be Dark Knight, because they just keep missing the point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

The opposite of White Knight must be Dark Knight, because they just keep missing the point.

---

Lose some sleep putting that one together?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hubert

In my opinion the devs should shoot for smaller patches and quicker releases to avoid this kind of thing. One bug in one feature ends up delaying the entire patch for a few days when the players have already been waiting for a couple months. Combat reworking and new content I can forgive, but did we really need to wait this long just to get player search or repair adjustments?

---

There's a reason why it is not a common trend in the industry. Larger patches are easier and more efficient to manage and prepare. Many infrequent patches means a lot more preparation time required as well, slowing the development down.

It's not merely about programming and creating assets and design. The pieces must be put together, prepared and tested accordingly and individually. When you only have to do this once per few months and can work under less strict schedules the pace is a lot more manageable for a large-scale adjustments and additions.

Two months per patch is rather fast pace as far as the industry standard is concerned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Two months per patch is rather fast pace as far as the industry standard is concerned.

---

most games wait 4-5 months and give the same ammount of content/overall changes we get here in 2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Two months per patch is rather fast pace as far as the industry standard is concerned.

---

Well yes, but trying to recover from a botched MMO launch isn't exactly standard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xatsh

Another Worthless Troll who doesn't have a clue what they are talking about, but thinks they do.

Devs gave us info based on their best info, happens there was a unforeseen error. It is extremely common in programing every studio has it happen to them. And not just gaming. If you want to argue with me... tell me 1 game or 1 Major product that does not have hotfixes after major updates. Want to know why those exist... screw up in code. The devs could of released the game, but why do it when there is a critical but rare issues that could happen. Better then doing the old Aion style rollback... imagine the rage if SE removed 48hrs of all progress from everyone.

Microsoft, Apple, SE, Blizzard, EA, Bioware, NcSoft, Nintendo, and many more take your pick they all had delays due to coding errors. So call me a white knight but it only proves your ignorance or stupidity when it comes to programing.

You realize 1 Word in 10000 lines of codes can make 100,000+ lines of code on multiple pages not work or work in a way it was not intended. And try finding that when there are no error codes lighting up on the dev software.

Hitting Deadlines are great things, but there is no company in the history of gaming that has hit them all the time not even on a single online game.

My Statements about what they will probably do is all true. Because people like you cry bloody murder when there is a minor delay in a very large patch.

---

I don't care if it's a staff problem or lack of skill. It's seriously none of our business why SE fails to meet these deadlines. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't be so quick to make excuses FOR them. Have some self respect.

Also lol at me not knowing anything about how deadlines in the games industry. If the past 5 years working in a game company have taught me anything at all it's that deadlines can always be met and people do because it means the extra time can be used to put in "could-have" items after the "should-haves" are done.

Maybe it's poor management at SE I don't know. 2 tried to kill themselves and another succeeded during XII's development while all the Squaresoft veterans quit the company out of their own free will. Bad management seems really likely but still it's none of our concern as customers.

Bottom line is WE are not accountable for SE's mistakes in any way whatsoever. If they say 14th and it slips guess what people are going to complain and they have the right to do so.

Personally I can wait a few months until they've had enough time to work on the basics of the game but that's completely besides the point here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Two months per patch is rather fast pace as far as the industry standard is concerned.

---

But two months has been more of a minimum between significant patches. It was more than three months between 1.17 and 1.18, and about two and a half between 1.18 and 1.19, and 1.19 and 1.20.

Where do you get your numbers for the industry standard? Genuine question. :) If two months is considered "a rather fast pace", then the industry standard would be... two and a half? Three? Four? Rift has been delivering major patches on the low of end 4-6 weeks since it's launch in March, and I've always been under the impression the first few years of an MMOs life were much faster than three or four notable updates a year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilean

Well yes, but trying to recover from a botched MMO launch isn't exactly standard.

---

Indeed there is nothing standard about this game. Who ever heard of two versions of the same MMO being worked on at once?

But as far as FFXIII-2 chocobo music is concerned, I think you should lighten up. Any drum solo that sounds like it was done by this guy can't be all bad:

http://images.wikia.com/muppet/images/0/0d/AnimalS1.JPG

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShinChuck

But two months has been more of a minimum between significant patches. It was more than three months between 1.17 and 1.18, and about two and a half between 1.18 and 1.19, and 1.19 and 1.20.

Where do you get your numbers for the industry standard? Genuine question. :) If two months is considered "a rather fast pace", then the industry standard would be... two and a half? Three? Four? Rift has been delivering major patches on the low of end 4-6 weeks since it's launch in March, and I've always been under the impression the first few years of an MMOs life were much faster than three or four notable updates a year.

---

i dont know about him but i get my numbers from the massive ammount of mmos ive played

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

i dont know about him but i get my numbers from the massive ammount of mmos ive played

---

Funny, I've played a massive amount too! A stalemate, then. So I ask again, as a genuine question, is there some hard data or resources out there?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShinChuck

Funny, I've played a massive amount too! A stalemate, then. So I ask again, as a genuine question, is there some hard data or resources out there?

---

yes
yuou can go to most of the game websites and look at patch release dates

problem is, not all games number them the way we do, and youll see quite a few who do the

1.1-1.2-1.3 and such for anything they release even the smallest hotfix so youll end up having to actualy go in and read the notes to be able to tell what it is patching

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

yes
yuou can go to most of the game websites and look at patch release dates

problem is, not all games number them the way we do, and youll see quite a few who do the

1.1-1.2-1.3 and such for anything they release even the smallest hotfix so youll end up having to actualy go in and read the notes to be able to tell what it is patching

---

I've done that before, and Rift and Guild Wars both trounced FFXIV in terms of pace. It was a less than thrilling process of literally scouring years of patch notes, so I was curious if any of this data came from a source that had it already compiled over more MMOs over a significant amount of time. It appears as though that is not the case, so we're still working on anecdotal evidence when it comes to defining an industry standard.

Ah well, maybe I'll hunt down more stats over break, dig through a few more MMO's updates. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShinChuck

I've done that before, and Rift and Guild Wars both trounced FFXIV in terms of pace. It was a less than thrilling process of literally scouring years of patch notes, so I was curious if any of this data came from a source that had it already compiled over more MMOs over a significant amount of time. It appears as though that is not the case, so we're still working on anecdotal evidence when it comes to defining an industry standard.

Ah well, maybe I'll hunt down more stats over break, dig through a few more MMO's updates. :)

---

as a note of reference, f2p games add things at much different paces then p2p games since they get paid for the content, not for keeping the game up like p2p games do(this is in reference to guild wars)
by those standards you should see how quick ddo releases content, then again they charge for it all and thats how they make their cash so they have to

and 1 game doesnt set the "standard" rift is now at 1.6 which isnt nesisarily 6 patches of content(1.0 is release)
also, rift was holding back content for release from launch so that they could be more quick paced near the start too(a few games have done this recently)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

as a note of reference, f2p games add things at much different paces then p2p games since they get paid for the content,

---

It would also be good to note that even F2P games make profit, FFXIV currently makes nothing.

But I'd still compare the dev cycle to a P2P game, they have a large team working seemingly nonstop on the game and new engine. There are alot of thing to factor in if you were to compare it to other MMO's and it would be even harder to draw any sort of informed conclusion because FFXIV has no other game to baseline on, as no other MMO has really tripped at launch so bad yet continued developement (As far as a totally new engine)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jynx

It would also be good to note that even F2P games make profit, FFXIV currently makes nothing.

But I'd still compare the dev cycle to a P2P game, they have a large team working seemingly nonstop on the game and new engine. There are alot of thing to factor in if you were to compare it to other MMO's and it would be even harder to draw any sort of informed conclusion because FFXIV has no other game to baseline on, as no other MMO has really tripped at launch so bad yet continued developement (As far as a totally new engine)

---

if you count the shear ammount of stuff being done each patch its a good baseline, and not just the "content" released
if we didnt have so much non content being done, it would look so much different
but the non content is needed of course so you cant just pass it over

as far as games to look at that may be a good comparison recently...STO and Champions, and perhaps Lego Universe

LU is closed
Champions and STO went f2p, but before they did the releases were rather slow(in the first year champions released 1 new zone, and 1 dungeon total that was new, and only did 2-3 events)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

as a note of reference, f2p games add things at much different paces then p2p games since they get paid for the content, not for keeping the game up like p2p games do(this is in reference to guild wars)
by those standards you should see how quick ddo releases content, then again they charge for it all and thats how they make their cash so they have to

and 1 game doesnt set the "standard" rift is now at 1.6 which isnt nesisarily 6 patches of content(1.0 is release)
also, rift was holding back content for release from launch so that they could be more quick paced near the start too(a few games have done this recently)

---

Ah hah, so the "industry standard" varies by model. *Now* we're making progress toward defining it, even though we still lack specific numbers.

I've read each and every single list of patch notes for Rift. They *have* had six patches of content. 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5., 1.6... and that's not including a few significant ones that they had in between each of those. They're currently at, glancing at my list, nine major updates total since March.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShinChuck

Ah hah, so the "industry standard" varies by model. *Now* we're making progress toward defining it, even though we still lack specific numbers.

I've read each and every single list of patch notes for Rift. They *have* had six patches of content. 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5., 1.6... and that's not including a few significant ones that they had in between each of those. They're currently at, glancing at my list, nine major updates total since March.

---

and yet rift has a steadily declining playerbase, which says alot there too
im not ragging on rift saying that, but its also somewhat the industry standard for that to happen no matter how succesful a game is considered cuz it isnt a veteran mmo(you should see my stance/rants on why people play vet mmos and always compare to them, and keep going basck to them while they hate them with a passion)