Summoner and the upcoming changes

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Originally Posted by Talec

I get the feeling, that SMN is not a very PS4-friendly Class. Managing the pet is so super hard on Controller. Moving it out of AoEs in time seems like impossible, moving him closer to a Person who should benefit from Aetherpact takes at least a couple of seconds for me. During this time I cannot do dmg, which is a huge DPS-loss.

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Don't do either. Unless they change devotion, just cast it and let the cards lay where they may. No matter what you are help the party with a buff be it dps or healers. As for AoE, when you "de-summon" Bahamut you should have a fresh new Egi with full health again.

Today I've been farming Susano and Lakshmi extreme with summoner. It's a lot more.. interesting in 8 man content, but my FC mates complained a lot about Bahamut being too large and making it hard to see mechanics. Playing with a Bard is fun because you can just Ruin III spam all day with proper usage of Lucid Dreaming + Refresh.

We need changes to Contagion and Devotion immediately. Devotion only gives itself to healers and trying to get Contagion to go off when you want it is just so difficult that I use it whenever and don't care anymore.

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Originally Posted by Caduagm

Was running susanoo ex today and ALL of the compos with SMN/BLM, BLM was at least doing 800 dps more than us.

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800 more? if you are using the new ACT FFXIV plugin, you should note it's in beta and a lot of DoTs from summoners and some healers are not detected.

It's also having a host of other issues, I suggest waiting til the official release before wondering if our dps is truly that bad.

I think this job needs a complete overhaul after these changes. They deleted so many skills and gave us two in return, one of them is a buff that's not interesting. I'm glad we got a new summon but it doesn't make up for everything else we lost. They should just make summons more like bahamut, you summon them for a short time to do their ultimate ability and you rotate between them, have them require less mangement and let bahamut do autos on his own.

Also lore wise why bahamut? We already have deathflare in the form of DWT, we didn't we learn a new trance? Instead we got an overglorifed egi to do the same thing we've been doing.

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Originally Posted by jlaul

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I pretty much agree with all of this.

I had feared SB SMN would be braindead ruin 1 spam but keeping aetherflow apart from DWT is keeping me on my toes while making the best out of tri.
As for Demi Bahamut, remember that wyrmwave has a 1.5 second recast. It might be better to just go into melee range and auto attack while ruin II spamming. Having Bahamut summoned doesn't warrant Ruin III or Ruin spamming in anyway. If you have a Ruin IV it should still be cast however because of Enkindle.
I keep using 1 OGCD (3 Festers, 1 Addle) between the Ruin II's while auto attacking. And yes it is absolutely worth Auto attacking, it can trigger wyrmwave and it'll be an additional 160 potency if Bahamut responds.
I think the maximum might be around 10-13 wayrmwaves per summoning since Akh Morn also takes up time to use.

Pet responsiveness needs to get better. Especially now where timing your pet is way more crucial than it ever was. Garuda at least that is. I absolutely hate how much I need to spam Contagion before it goes off.

It'd be nicer if we would still get Aethertrail attunement even if our attacks miss because if we do miss an attack, we're effectively locked out for 2 mins. This is way too punishing and I think this is the only job that is this unforgiving.

And don't trust parsers. DoT's aren't being tracked yet. I was 1000 DPS behind the BLM in our Susano farm. In fact, I was also way behind other jobs. Even the offtank at some point.

Aetherpact needs a buff, it's pretty terrible as of right now. I keep using it from start to finish but I'd lie if I said it's not for Ruin IV proc fishing. 5% for 15 seconds every 90 seconds and then you can't even control which person should get it....

I haven't gone into the EX trials of Stormblood yet, so do not know what the actual numbers are. However if it is true that our DPS output is lacking somewhat, then I hope that gets addressed in a future patch. Having said that though, whilst leveling and running lvl70 dungeons I didn't feel like my DPS output had been gimped all that much. The one thing I did notice however, whilst leveling. Is how much I miss Sustain. It was a great way to keep the Egi alive enough in tight situations. Now we have no way of keeping our Egi's HP up ourselves.

In terms of Demi Bahamut blocking mechanic telegraphs. I'm not sure how much of that is actually Bahamut's fault vs the player in question's fault. During the final MSQ trial I completed that alongside another SMN. So we had double Demi Bahamut out for the entirety of that fight and everyone was able to see and dodge the mechanics just fine. Of course the mechanics of an EX trial are more unforgiving usually. But the aforementioned example makes me wonder how much of that is just players making excuses for dying or failing to dodge a mechanic on a fight that they barely know, considering it's only been out for about a single week.

However I think visually SMN is in a great place! I love Demi Bahamut! He's very reminiscent of the Avatars we used to have in FFXI and is a proper Summon in every sense of the word! Definitely a step in the right direction in terms of SMN identity! So in that regard the 4.0 changes to SMN were very much needed in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

During the XXXXXXX trial

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Hmmm...didn't expect to see a spoiler on a SMN gameplay topic. Should have just said something like "during one of later trials" or something. Oh well.

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Originally Posted by Nerisu

Hmmm...didn't expect to see a spoiler on a SMN gameplay topic. Should have just said something like "during one of later trials" or something. Oh well.

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Ah crap, my apologies. I didn't think about that whilst posting. I have now fixed that, thanks.

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Originally Posted by jmdude

Also lore wise why bahamut? We already have deathflare in the form of DWT, we didn't we learn a new trance? Instead we got an overglorifed egi to do the same thing we've been doing.

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These were my concerns from the day we saw the ability preview.... I guessed that the only thing we will get is a small version of bahamut for a few seconds and thats it. I mean come on, my f**ing Ruin IV procs seldom, sometimes not even once, 64 skill is kinda trash atm and the only thing we got is better version of our dots. All in all I was kinda thrilled by the footage, but my dreams got crushed by bare hand. Having Bahamut is kinda nice but nothing really new, you know what I mean? and making your most powerful single target GCD rng by 15 ridiculous percent, seems very unsatisfying..

However that being said, I just love the pose whilst casting and executing Ruin IV. My SMN looks so badass with it, letting his weapon float for a few moments and taking it back in his hands like a really cool bastard. This is made really great. I want more of these. The only thing I wish now are some tweaks to some actions.

I can live with every change, except for aethertrail and aetherflow being on the same bar. If for some reason I lose a stack (missed bane) and end up with two stacks of aethertrail and no aetherflow, i now WASTE 2 more stacks when using the next aetherflow,

I can't even just get rid of aethertrail stacks. Let me click them off or something. Its actually brutal. As long as these two are combined on the UI bar, this class is going to have some serious problems.

I don't even understand how this made it live. This is actually disgusting.

Talking to my FC last night and mentioned I went from SMN to RDM for the time being till things on SMN get ironed out and one of the other resident Summoners called me jokingly a "heritic". I will still level SMN eventually, but from what I have seen and read as well as experienced I will continue as RDM for now.

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Originally Posted by DkDerek

I can live with every change, except for aethertrail and aetherflow being on the same bar. If for some reason I lose a stack (missed bane) and end up with two stacks of aethertrail and no aetherflow, i now WASTE 2 more stacks when using the next aetherflow,

I can't even just get rid of aethertrail stacks. Let me click them off or something. Its actually brutal. As long as these two are combined on the UI bar, this class is going to have some serious problems.

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Yeah, if you miss a fester on an invincible boss your dps is pretty much screwed, because you have to wait for the next aetherflow stacks, and you wont get 3 stacks but just 1(since there is only one slot available), at least they could give us the ability to reset the aethertrail stacks.

And the removal of sustain is so annoying. Also when you get raised you don't have enought mp right back so summon your pet iirc.(not sure about that actually)

I just got to lvl 70 yesterday, and maybe it's my latency or something i don't know, but when bahamut is out, he doesn't seem to attack 3 times if i cast ruin -> ruin 2 -> fester.
So i don't know if it's really important to wait for aetherflow to cast bahamut, or maybe only spam ruin 2 in this phase instead of ruin and use ogcd skills.

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Originally Posted by Tsukaasa

Yeah, if you miss a fester on an invincible boss your dps is pretty much screwed, because you have to wait for the next aetherflow stacks, and you wont get 3 stacks but just 1(since there is only one slot available), at least they could give us the ability to reset the aethertrail stacks.

And the removal of sustain is so annoying. Also when you get raised you don't have enought mp right back so summon your pet iirc.(not sure about that actually)

I just got to lvl 70 yesterday, and maybe it's my latency or something i don't know, but when bahamut is out, he doesn't seem to attack 3 times if i cast ruin -> ruin 2 -> fester.
So i don't know if it's really important to wait for aetherflow to cast bahamut, or maybe only spam ruin 2 in this phase instead of ruin and use ogcd skills.

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Wyrmwave has a 1.5s recast

https://i.imgur.com/RZhjRCI.png

Summoner is the highest range dps lol - or basically equal to blm but a lot more mobile for encounters with a lot movement SMN should take it.

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Originally Posted by DkDerek

I can live with every change, except for aethertrail and aetherflow being on the same bar. If for some reason I lose a stack (missed bane) and end up with two stacks of aethertrail and no aetherflow, i now WASTE 2 more stacks when using the next aetherflow,

I can't even just get rid of aethertrail stacks. Let me click them off or something. Its actually brutal. As long as these two are combined on the UI bar, this class is going to have some serious problems.

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So have there actually been reported cases of this occurring? Like, missing an AF skill or casting it on an invulnerable target expends the stack without gaining an Aethertrail Attunement?

I have zero experience with Summoner, but I feel like the solution to this issue is simple for the developers (if this isn't the case already): Have Aetherflow-spending abilities always proc Aethertrail Attunement when used, regardless of whether or not the ability hits or deals damage to the intended target. So spending three Aetherflow stacks will always grant three Aethertrail stacks, even if Bane misses or Fester deals zero damage.

I would like to know if there have been reported cases of Aetherflow-consuming abilities not granting Aethertrail Attunement if they miss or are fully-absorbed in 4.0.

Yes, for example if you bane a target without dot or fester an invincible boss, the aetherflow stack is used and you gain nothing, so you are stucked with 1 blank slot and for example 2 aethertrail stacks.

So next time aetherflow is up and you use it, you will gain just 1 remaining slot of aetherflow. (because since SB, aetherflow stacks and aethertrail stacks are fused on 3 slots)

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Originally Posted by KroLeXz

https://i.imgur.com/RZhjRCI.png

Summoner is the highest range dps lol - or basically equal to blm but a lot more mobile for encounters with a lot movement SMN should take it.

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Thats freaky

While the numbers being high might be a relief for some, I'd just like to point out that most people complaining about the class weren't worried about numbers - including me. We were more worried about the class remaining Clunkmaster 9000. Numbers can and will be fixed - Heavensward is proof of this.

Still, it gives me *something* to look forward to.

This is actually bad for blm by comparison.

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Originally Posted by Psycofang

This is actually bad for blm by comparison.

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Agreed. Yikes. I don't know how AoE DPS is looking, so it's possible BLM does better there now? I have no clue as I don't play BLM. But yeah, otherwise that's pretty terrible for a class with arguably less utility than us.

is there actually numbers supporting this? I can barly keep up with my BLM friend hes doing more dps than me. Sure i'm not the best SMN but he isent the best BLM either. Where are the rotations, gear etc used for giving us those numbers? 0o

I was never concerned about numbers at 70. What bugs me has been the changes made to summoner and how the class feels empty at 60 and below. Two design decisions Square has endlessly communicated to us about the class is that

1) Egi size is fixed so that it wouldn't give anyone targeting issues

2) Egis aren't overpowered to the point the summoner is crippled if it dies

Changes made to 4.0 have invalidated both design decisions and created problems in content for summoners and their parties.

I've given up on levelling my summoner as I cannot stand the gameplay at 60 when I used to love it.

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Originally Posted by Chimiko

is there actually numbers supporting this? I can barly keep up with my BLM friend hes doing more dps than me. Sure i'm not the best SMN but he isent the best BLM either. Where are the rotations, gear etc used for giving us those numbers? 0o

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Rotations unknown but considering the parse im betting its a goid rotation for blm at least since with how our single target works we only have 2 rotations which are relatively the same sans 2 buttons increasing f4 by +2 or not.

All gear was in 314 item level.


Hopefully more info comes along.

Has anyone been able to clear Stone, Sky, Sea at lower item levels? I'm 291 and against Royal Menagerie, I can't seem to down it, always ending up with about 2% HP left on the dummy, which comes out to estimated 3300 DPS (no potions/food/materia6).

Wondering if I'm doing something wrong but I feel like I'm pushing the class as hard as I can.

We have good numbers? Don't care. not the issue I am having SMN feels boring its mostly ruin spam now and pressing one button over and over again is no fun. Being unable to use atherflow when DWT is up or I have not used the attunement makes the job feel even more clunky. I do have a question how am I supposed to keep the Egi alive. This expansion so much of our power was moved to the pet but for the life of me cant figure out how I am supposed to keep the thing living in solo or aoe rich locals. RDM has a simple rotation but feels more interactive probably going to switch to that or play SCH.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

Has anyone been able to clear Stone, Sky, Sea at lower item levels? I'm 291 and against Royal Menagerie, I can't seem to down it, always ending up with about 2% HP left on the dummy, which comes out to estimated 3300 DPS (no potions/food/materia6).

Wondering if I'm doing something wrong but I feel like I'm pushing the class as hard as I can.

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Where can you access royal menagerie dummy ?
I went to the npc at the exit of Idyllshire and he only offers lvl 60 content :\. (i haven't cleared the fight yet, but i guess it isn't a requirement)

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Originally Posted by Tsukaasa

Where can you access royal menagerie dummy ?
I went to the npc at the exit of Idyllshire and he only offers lvl 60 content :\. (i haven't cleared the fight yet, but i guess it isn't a requirement)

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Hes outside of rhalgars reach iirc just a green npc right next to a river. You unlock him through a quest.

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Originally Posted by Cherishes

I was never concerned about numbers at 70. What bugs me has been the changes made to summoner and how the class feels empty at 60 and below.

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You and most others - myself included - have been repeating this ad nauseam. Too many SMNs are getting in the "haha I told you so, SMN is good" mindset when most of the complaints are about how the class would play.

I'm still not 70 because I've had a busy week and lost most of my free time to the bottlenecking, but I've played with lvl 70 SMNs, and it looks about as boring as I expected. I'm still thinking about whether it's something I wanna stay invested in or not.

What jobs were you thinking of? I was thinking either DRG or a tank class.

well HW summoner was a plain sad cls in AAR content as well... so nothing changed here in regards of synced content in SB. If you like them at 70 is another story - some are okay with the burst-structure, others feel its brain-dead now.... dunno why everybody must agree on everything - there are enough cls' to move on .____.

edit: just sayin that I tested a statics friend smn before I started mine - that being said im obvisouly one of the less who still like it. but I can understand what most of you are missing now. : o

Nobody's asking you to agree on anything. I responded to a person who said they were never concerned with numbers and felt some type of way about the class design itself. I agreed with them. What does that have to do with people who like it?

wasnt pointing on you more in general Cec f.e said all veterans are like "buuuuh" and just the newbies are like "yaaay" - im playing smn in raids/pve/pvp since years and still feels "yaaay" - everyone to his/her own likings : /

Oh ok - it just came right after my post and was relevant so I assumed

I'm probably echoing what others have said, but the pet AI, response time, and health management really needs to be improved and modified.

I move one foot and Bahamut egi is trailing behind me like an old man moving so slowly. Don't his attacks have a 100 yard range? Stay still unless the enemy is out of range.

I had an instance where Ifrit-egi got obliterated by a close range aoe marker just as I used Summon Bahamut and I got the floating text "Summon Bahamut dodged." :mad:

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Originally Posted by Len

I had an instance where Ifrit-egi got obliterated by a close range aoe marker just as I used Summon Bahamut and I got the floating text "Summon Bahamut dodged." :mad:

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That seems like it would make me even more suicidal than missing a Deathflare in 3.x

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Originally Posted by Len

I had an instance where Ifrit-egi got obliterated by a close range aoe marker just as I used Summon Bahamut and I got the floating text "Summon Bahamut dodged." :mad:

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I laughed at this way harder than I should've. Oh my god I'd be SO MAD.

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Originally Posted by KroLeXz

https://i.imgur.com/RZhjRCI.png

Summoner is the highest range dps lol - or basically equal to blm but a lot more mobile for encounters with a lot movement SMN should take it.

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Maybe that is how summoner is supposed to look, But currently if you have done stone sky sea even a single time as a smn you would know this is false.

Maybe that was Summoner before they took away one of summoner's main spells since forever. Losing that Dot killed a lot of our dps, Maybe that was before they nerfed our strongest damaging spam-able spell (ruin 3) by potency. I'm an ilevel 300 summoner and I can't beat the first stone sky sea dummy no matter what rotation I use

For SSS, check this thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...IC&sh=da1056b4

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Originally Posted by Crevox

Has anyone been able to clear Stone, Sky, Sea at lower item levels? I'm 291 and against Royal Menagerie, I can't seem to down it, always ending up with about 2% HP left on the dummy, which comes out to estimated 3300 DPS (no potions/food/materia6).

Wondering if I'm doing something wrong but I feel like I'm pushing the class as hard as I can.

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I'm ilvl 290 and the best run i did was 5% remaining. (no food, materia or anything used)

It's duoable but i might have to spam ruin 3 to the point where i'm almost oom. But it's kinda flawed since in the actual combat i use the skill to give mp to healers, so i wouldn't be able to perform as good as on the dummy.
Either i'm bad or i need the 300 ivl weapon and some ilvl 300 pieces.

To be honest i'm not sure how you would beat it unless you spam ruin 3 until you're almost OOM. I just went to try it and beat it in 2 attempts at 310 Ilv.

http://i.imgur.com/AgKwSfu.png

I uploaded a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfyq...ature=youtu.be

Just hoping for some criticism. I know at one point my DoTs fall off for 2 seconds, was a little panicked due to my low mana, though I somehow ended up doing 150 more than my previous attempt anyway.

I like bahamut and all, but I miss being able to use aetherflow during DWT to keep the cooldown qued, kinda feels like its what SMN really needs right now to keep Bahamuts coming faster. If I had to give any feedback to the dev team it would be either to let us Aetherflow during DWT again, or reduce Aetherflows c/d by 10-15 seconds at least to make up for time lost being locked out during DWT.