Moving will be made to interrupt spellcasting at a point in time...

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Excuse me, not all people who played WoW are PvPers. I played on a RP server, and was in a PvE progression raiding guild. I had zero interest in PvP.

This isn't just to facilitate smoother combat in PvP. It's also to balance boss fights and make them more challenging.

I love how people complain that this game is getting gimped into easy mode, then are upset that they're removing something that will be way too OP once animation lock is gone. Without animation lock, it will be essential to have other checks and balances such as cooldowns and spells that cannot be cast while moving. Instant cast spells are fine to cast on the move, but anything with a cast timer should have to be cast in place.

BTW, WoW is considered to have fast-paced combat. Sometimes to the point it's just twitch-responses. And we healers deal with having to stand in place to cast big heals all the time.

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I never said the game was being put on easy mode. I like the ability to move while casting.

I am not a healer, I am a Red Wizard (Black Mage if you want me to be specific)

Disciples of Magic have THE lowest defense of all classes. Having the ability to move and cast should be an advantage because of that fact.

Lancer Shouldn't hit as hard as a black-mage in the short term because of it's Armor and MP issue, but it can. I am not asking lancer to be nerfed, I am asking for Thm/blm to hit harder.

I hated how your character goes retarded too in FFXI after moving one little step by accident. Unable to cast this for 3 seconds, that was so lame.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Excuse me, not all people who played WoW are PvPers. I played on a RP server, and was in a PvE progression raiding guild. I had zero interest in PvP.

This isn't just to facilitate smoother combat in PvP. It's also to balance boss fights and make them more challenging.

I love how people complain that this game is getting gimped into easy mode, then are upset that they're removing something that will be way too OP once animation lock is gone. Without animation lock, it will be essential to have other checks and balances such as cooldowns and spells that cannot be cast while moving. Instant cast spells are fine to cast on the move, but anything with a cast timer should have to be cast in place.

BTW, WoW is considered to have fast-paced combat. Sometimes to the point it's just twitch-responses. And we healers deal with having to stand in place to cast big heals all the time.

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I would say you have a point however... there are no instant cast spells if you look down the list... Also I played WoW for a long long time (along with so many other MMOs it would take too much space to list here) WoW is not something I would call twitch game play hehe... the combat was never really fast pace and most of it came down to spell rotations and such. Yes yes there are a number of boss fights you had to move here really fast or do this and that but really it is not a twitch MMO.

A real twitch MMO would be something like oh... Tera or maybe GW2... twitch game play is akin to FPS games and really WoW is not even close to that.

Yes healers have to stand in place to cast the big heals and they map out the fight knowing right where to stand so nothing can hit you... since for the most part all the boss fights are scripted and simply go off the bosses ability timers. When you went to fight certain bosses to was know that you would stand in X spot for this part then move over to Y spot for this part and that is pretty much how it went... yes yes some had a bit of randomness tossed in where a boss would use X ability are a certain time but pick a random target though most of the time this was based on threat levels and such...

So I would not say it was ever twitchy at all... though I played a tank they whole time...

Edit just to add this bit in. I could do a boss fight while watching a movie at the same time and not miss a scene...

the cat is bemused =-.-=

I hope SE is thinking this over carefully, because I just see this making a mage's job (Especially for Conjurers now.) ten times harder. Who's ever found the annoyance of having to spam Protect, Shell, Stoneskin, and Stygian/Shock Spikes because someone decides to run off or the whole party does? So you have to chase after the group just to buff them, sometimes getting all or most of them, other times maybe 3 including yourself. Personally I have never had any problems cancelling a spell, you hit the same action hotkey as it's casting and it'll stop mid-cast. At times I would end up accidentally cancelling a spell unintentionally but never had problems trying to cancel one on purpose. Moving to cancel a spell worked in FFXI, but I don't see it working here very well...

Why it worked in FFXI: Parties were settled into a single position normally thus you didn't need to run far. Just stand in range of everyone, tack on a buff, and resume play. One person ran off, pulled a target and the tank took over.

Why it won't work in FFXIV: For one, unless the durations are also changed, buff durations of spells. Typically a buff (Like Protect and Shell.) lasted for 5-4 minutes, up to 7 minutes if you used Roaming Soul. Unless this has been changed you'll find much more frequent downtime as you need to stop for everyone to stand still so you can buff them. Otherwise you'll just have to go a great deal of the fight without any buffs. The biggest issue is that camps tend not to be stationary, instead the entire party roams a large area continuously attacking creatures until they fall and then move onto the next one. Forcing spell cancellations by moving around will make it twice as difficult to buff somebody when the party is always on the move.

The only thing that could counter that is shorter recast times for buffs, heal spells, and longer buff durations. I worry if curing may be a nightmare when this drops. Need to heal with an AoE spell? No can do, gotta wait until the party stops moving long enough to do so without drawing a huge amount of hate from doing so as they engage. It's not really a fault of the dev team, rather the playerbase but doesn't mean it'll change anything but making a healer's job more difficult.

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Originally Posted by NadienKirisame

I would say you have a point however... there are no instant cast spells if you look down the list...

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While it's true that CNJs don't seem to be getting any instant casts in their grimoire, according to the Class Reforms Action List, it seems that WHM will.

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WHM Abl. 1 - Eliminates cast time of next spell.
WHM Abl. 2 - Instantly restores HP of all party members.

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I could see these abilities allowing instant cast spells that could be used while moving. And while it hasn't been mentioned that this is Yoshi-P's plan, anything could happen between now and 1.21 when the Jobs go live.

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Originally Posted by NadienKirisame

Also I played WoW for a long long time (along with so many other MMOs it would take too much space to list here) WoW is not something I would call twitch game play hehe... the combat was never really fast pace and most of it came down to spell rotations and such. Yes yes there are a number of boss fights you had to move here really fast or do this and that but really it is not a twitch MMO.

A real twitch MMO would be something like oh... Tera or maybe GW2... twitch game play is akin to FPS games and really WoW is not even close to that.

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I haven't played the games you've mentioned, but out of the MMOs I have played, WoW's combat is the fastest paced. Especially PvP, it all comes down to instant abilities, positioning, line of sight, etc. So, I'll give you that, there are probably other games that are purely twitch. But FFXIV is still not what I consider to be fast-paced combat, even if it is faster than FFXI.

I dont support this change. /sad.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

While it's true that CNJs don't seem to be getting any instant casts in their grimoire, according to the Class Reforms Action List, it seems that WHM will.



I could see these abilities allowing instant cast spells that could be used while moving. And while it hasn't been mentioned that this is Yoshi-P's plan, anything could happen between now and 1.21 when the Jobs go live.



I haven't played the games you've mentioned, but out of the MMOs I have played, WoW's combat is the fastest paced. Especially PvP, it all comes down to instant abilities, positioning, line of sight, etc. So, I'll give you that, there are probably other games that are purely twitch. But FFXIV is still not what I consider to be fast-paced combat, even if it is faster than FFXI.

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Yes yes... WHM will have 2 instant cast abilities... when 1.21 comes out... however we are about to get 1.20 and they said this may go in sometime between 1.20 and 1.21 so it could be in before we can even touch WHM. Also the WHM abilities are nice but how does that help a CNJ who is leveling up and does not have WHM yet?

I am sorry I have been playing MMOs for a long long time and I have played way to many I should say... I should actually cut down on the number of them I play... at least I have stopped paying for and playing 5 at a time right now >.>

But that means nothing at all... Would I want FFXIV to have twitch based combat? Oh hell no... keep that crap in the FPS games and that high super fast action MMOs... I don't think it is needed in this game. There is also a lot more they can do with out the need for it to be twitch.

the cat is bemused =-.-=

Twitch? What is this?

I don't like the idea of moving interrupting spellcasting either. If players need to cancel their spellcasting, there should be some sort of button command or UI icon to click to do it instead, and without causing any animation lock, at that.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Twitch? What is this?

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I'm pretty sure they mean games that involve split-second responses in terms of movement and executing actions. Really, I think the Ifrit fight has some twitch elements.

Either that, or they mean Twitch from League of Legends, lol...

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Originally Posted by Tetsaru

I don't like the idea of moving interrupting spellcasting either. If players need to cancel their spellcasting, there should be some sort of button command or UI icon to click to do it instead, and without causing any animation lock, at that.



I'm pretty sure they mean games that involve split-second responses in terms of movement and executing actions. Really, I think the Ifrit fight has some twitch elements.

Either that, or they mean Twitch from League of Legends, lol...

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Twitch would be the first one not the second :P

I'm more not for the twitch type of combat that comes from certain games... I do not mind the fast pace action of boss fights however if instead this game was more like FEZ (Fantasy Earth Zero) or some other FPS type action RPG I would not be too happy. Would I play it... sure I played all those other... I personally do not think of full twitch fast action RPG when I think of a FF game.

It is sort of like the argument people had with SWTOR (really don't want to talk about it but meh) they wanted twitch combat and darn it my light saber should kill someone in one hit just like in the movies...

the cat is bemused =-.-=

At least we won't stop to cast spells while trying to run away from Ifrit's aoe skills.

For those worried about not being able to hit all your party members with curaga and buffs because they are always moving out of your range.

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[dex1206] Magic spells have been unified to strike either a single target or, in the case of AoE, a circular area. Attack range has also been increased, and area of effect broadened.

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So this is really a non issue.

Just to reiterate why a change in how we cancel spells is needed, having to select the spell you are casting again in order to cancel it is a bad game design. This is made even more obvious for those of us that use macros, and is further compounded by the animation lock that happens at the start and end of each spell.

Adding spell cancelation from character movement is not the only way to solve these issues, but since no other options that we know of are coming in the immediate future this will definitely work for me.

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Originally Posted by Griss

how bleeping hard is it to hit the button you used to start casting again to stop it?

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Yo son, pro-mages use macros. Not pressing the actual action on bar number 3. :)

I don't see what anyone has to gain from stationary spell casting. It's stupid. Isn't it more fun to move and cast?

Is it more fun to play Resident Evil when you can't strafe?

Casting requires concentration...and if you move you interrupt your own spell. If they do this they need to establish visible spell range zone and also spells need to be powerful since they'll be hard to cast.

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Originally Posted by Agoven

Casting requires concentration...and if you move you interrupt your own spell. If they do this they need to establish visible spell range zone and also spells need to be powerful since they'll be hard to cast.

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I doubt they'll do that, but I like your suggestion. There should be a bonus to spell damage if you stand still, simple as that. On the other hand, doesn't it require greater concentration to cast while moving? If you have high enough intelligence you should be able to use it to cast while moving.

If you ask me I say it's about damn time. Can't go anywhere without those damn whippersnappers running, frolicking, and casting in my yard.

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Originally Posted by Baxter

If you ask me I say it's about damn time. Can't go anywhere without those damn whippersnappers running, frolicking, and casting in my yard.

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I hear ya. Back in my day, we had to actually stop running from something to cure ourselves before it could claw our face off. Kids these days just want an easy mode. Gettoffmy lawn.

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Originally Posted by Baxter

If you ask me I say it's about damn time. Can't go anywhere without those damn whippersnappers running, frolicking, and casting in my yard.

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Lol.... ..

I wouldn't really mind this just as long as you still automatically stop running when you start to cast. One thing that always drove me insane on XI was (since I play with a controller) to let off the analog stick at the same I hit the cast. Well there was typically that "I'm slowing to a walk... okay I'm not moving anymore" part of the animation and most of the time I would get up to 70% cast before realizing that that slight extra step caused me to interrupt the whole cast.

One of the things I absolutely loved about casting in XIV was that it forced you to stop when you started casting even if you had were running/auto-running. This simple thing made playing a mage tremendously less frustrating and I'd like to see it stay when they make this change. Then it will just be Run>Run>Run>Hit button>Forces you to stop running and start casting>If you're still trying to run (on purpose or on accident) then after a brief delay you can start running again and interrupt the cast.

moving while casting should lower the magic potency and accuracy. standing still while casting should increase its potency and accuracy.

same concept while running and shooting a weapon for example, you have a lower chance of hitting the target. they should do the same for archers.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

moving while casting should lower the magic potency and accuracy. standing still while casting should increase its potency and accuracy.

same concept while running and shooting a weapon for example, you have a lower chance of hitting the target. they should do the same for archers.

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see? now this is more tactical than being pidgeon holed into one or the other. why is this so hard to not only think up but to implement?
i fully support this.

i DONT want to stand still for an hour while casting stone skin. id much rather run while casting it. if i need to focus on my spell for extra acc and damage then so be it. its all about situational choice.

This is going to be fun when dealing with knock back interruption. Yay. ._.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

This is going to be fun when dealing with knock back interruption. Yay. ._.

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right?
i hated it while fighting Puks in FFXI and ill hate it now.

I'll add to the crowd:

Don't do it. Period. The current way to cancel is fine enough. See this thread Square? DON'T. DO IT.

I tried reading the whole thread.....

In XI if you started a cast, ran around and stood back where you started the cast it would go off. To cancel you start cast x/y and your end cast x,y had to be the same or server knew you "moved".

/heal or control H or click in analog stick was the sure way to cancel a cast.

In XI mobs didn't have a territory and generally you camped somewhere; mages weren't trying to stay in the 0.000001 malm radius to be in range for xp and chasing the DD up and down a mobs locale.

Casting and moving was a huge fix imo..... especially as camping does not exist, we move.

Your server lag is gonna ruin so many legit client side casts.

I seriously think the "/sh random xp pt (Looking for members) (Cure) 7/8" is just going to get worse...



tl;dr WTF SE!?!?! Don't do it!!!

I might as well add to the post with written text rather than a like tick. Do not do it. As mentioned we move alot when xping, having to stop then move again will be a serious pain in the ass

I will have to agree - standing still to cast is a bunch of nonsense. There is no need to do so. I think the ability to cast spells while moving reminds me of battle mages. =) I parrot others - it is/was a terrible aspect for mages in FFXI (having played a white mage and blackmage for a bit), was the same deal in EQ1 and any other mmorpg that believe standing still to cast a spell is the ultimate thing for a mage to do.

In Ifrit fights, and obviously not sure how this will work out in the Moogle fight, the fact that the mages can move as they begin to cast can determine a life or death situation. It is in their hands. Doing this takes that choice from them. Of course, a mage can set me straight on that but that is what I have observed.

This may be the most unified thread I have ever seen on this forum where everyone seems to universally agree (withstanding the few) ..

Community Managers can we get confirmation that this feedback is being provider to the developers?

Thanks

I cant wait untill people start complaining that they cant use sentinel and that they cant beat ifrit without it. It will be the same people that want difficulty in ffxiv and dislike movement cancel. I also cant wait untill people complain about the battle system in general and feel that leveling is to hard without the insane amount of moves they could equip in 1.19. And lol at the tags for this thread

This is INCREDIBLY DISSAPOINTING. Is this just a half-assed way of solving the "it's too damn difficult to cancel a spell currently being cast" problem, or is this a balance issue given monsters not using ranged attacks, or? At the very least Yoshida really needs to pop out with one of his neat posts where he gives his justifications for why they're doing something. We complain about Archer being position-locked during positioning-heavy boss battles, we explain that this is completely unacceptable and causing Archer to be tactically problematic... and then the dev team turns around and slaps the entire Disciplines of Magic in the face like this.

This is the first decision from the new dev team - out of a lot that have been going back on the ideas of the old dev team that were actually interesting-but-unworkable - that really makes me go "WTF", and after finally coming within a few levels of hitting 50 on a class, I feel like I've just wasted all of my time. I'd switch to PGL given the new ability loadout except I'm fairly sure the people I'm playing with rely on me as a mage, but I do NOT relish the thought of attempting to survive the Ifrit fight while being rooted to the ground just to make sure that a Thaumaturge can't kite-solo marginally as effectively as any DoW can. >_>

If it -is- a balance issue, do something like what was stated upthread, decrease power and accuracy by default if you cast while moving. Please. D:

Yes please, DO NOT DO IT.

I hated having my spells canceled in FFXI by some moves and I loved not having them canceled in FFXIV. It adds dynamism... Pressing 'esc' should be the way to go. I usually wait for the stuff to be ingame to judge them but this one is pretty obvious as a step in the wrong direction.

Bad Idea, Massive Step Backwards.

I haven't been able to play lately due to finals, but this kind of nonsense, I suddenly find myself not minding that fact so much.

DO NOT WANT.

DO IT SE DO ITTTTTT.

Seriously, I hope they have something connected to this.

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Originally Posted by captainpicard

This may be the most unified thread I have ever seen on this forum where everyone seems to universally agree (withstanding the few) ..

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Shocking isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

This is the first decision from the new dev team - out of a lot that have been going back on the ideas of the old dev team that were actually interesting-but-unworkable - that really makes me go "WTF"

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I agree. Thus far I've liked almost everything this new team has done. But this is a terrible idea. I've never liked stationary casting. I want to have the freedom to move! I don't want to sit there glued to one spot, watching the fight happening around me.

Please don't make movement cancel casting!

You're all complaining... and I don't mind either way... however did anyone notice the reduced cast time for most of the spells?

Conjurer:
Stoneskin - 3 seconds
Cura - 2 seconds
Curaga - 3 seconds
Protect - 3 seconds
Aero - 2 seconds
Aerora - 4 seconds
Raise - 10 seconds (longest cast)


On the flip side.... Thm spells
The base elements Fire, Blizzard, Thunder are 2-3 seconds
'ra spell(s) are 5 seconds
'ga spell(s) are 5-8 seconds

I guess calling powerful black magix to destroy thy' enemies takes concentration young Skywalker.

For the short casts, between the starting animation and finishing.. there will be a very small gap where you can move. For the longer casts, well... thats just some tough cookies now isn't it.

Cause if you don't agree, your complaining... right? Great logic.

Except just like in-game now, something like Sacrifice II says it take 2.25 to cast, when it really takes 3 second, upwards to 4 seconds.

Again, I don't want to rely on the server to decided if I cancel the spell or not via movement. The servers have already been proven time and time again, that it is far from being in-sync with the client. Before the comment is made, .5 to 2 second delay is unreasonable for a MMO, especially if PVP is a planned event down the road, and we would still be using the same server infrastructure if the game didn't bomb so bad in the first place.

Just make it cancel via a easy button press, or made it mode 1 (move to cancel) or mode 2 (cancel via button command).

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Originally Posted by Dubont

you lack the intelligence needed to continue this conversation. If you cannot see where not being able to move while casting is a problem, maybe this isn't the game for you.

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My argument is that it ISNT going to ruin the Ifrit fight. If the deciding factor of whether you win or loose the Ifrit fight is the ability to move while casting then you are doing something terribly wrong. And your insults are as sub par as your skills in Ifrit apparently.