Please Remove the Materia Melding Crafter Restriction

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Originally Posted by Conradus

No, you're pushing hard to remove a minor inconvenience. We're pushing hard to preserve crafting as a meaningful pursuit.

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Maybe I'm weird in never, ever thinking of melding as a meaningful crafter experience. Actually, it usually would just fill me with dread, whether it was my gear being melded or me melding someone else's gear.

I'm honestly surprised so many seem so... excited by being able to meld things only as a crafter.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

But we're talking about melding though, not crafting for a living. Quite frankly unless you've put both zero effort into making money (incidential or otherwise) and put effort into spending it, you can get your crafters to 60 via storebought items and leves. Less so if you have gathering as well. That's what it means to be a self-sustainable player, and melding is no exception to it.

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That's a reason you can play all classes/job on one character - Costs you a ton of time, yet you are self-sufficient with nearly everything.

If you just have one or two of those levels, that's fine too - But expect shortcomings on many ends.

Sockets are great addition. I had a really hard time figuring out my desired bis set - what is better, having that piece with accuracy but no crit and meld crit to other pieces, or meld accuracy there, but change that gear piece to one without accuracy but with crit.

I can't really understand is it that hard to meld when you don't have crafters, because I have them leveled on my main and have FC that can meld for me on my alt. If leveling crafts is boring, and many people don't do it, maybe it's time to make it more entertaining?

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

No it's not snobbish. Those people earned the ability and right to meld. You didn't. It's really pretty simple. You want to meld, level a crafter. If not get a crafter to meld for you and stop expecting to get something for nothing.

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LOL if you think that's statement is not snoobish. You've already drank the coolaid. I can meld. I don't have issues leveling crafts. I am however, trying to see things from all perspectives, and not look narrowly down my nose at the little guy who can't or hasn't for whatever reason.

People are not getting something for nothing. Melds cannot and will not 'BREAK' crafting. It barely adds any value to the crafter. It's more of a chore to meld things for other people, then it will ever be profitable through 'tips'.

All it does is add an unnecessary hurdle for players wanting to get to BIS.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

But we're talking about melding though, not crafting for a living. Quite frankly unless you've put both zero effort into making money (incidential or otherwise) and put effort into spending it, you can get your crafters to 60 via storebought items and leves. Less so if you have gathering as well. That's what it means to be a self-sustainable player, and melding is no exception to it.

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I see your point, and I tend to agree. You are right, we are talking about melds here. However, making melds available to a broader audience will not be detrimental to Crafters. They already partially did that for certain past relic steps.

The materia system is garbage as it currently stands IMO, put a NPC next to the gob that you purchase the materia were you can trade the gear, materia, grade carbine and be done with it not like were advance melding here with tome gear. Leave the advance melds aspect to the crafter for there recipes gear and hopefully down the down the road something more interesting will come out form the materia system that's my 2 cents in the matter lol.

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Originally Posted by Lan_Mantear

All it does is add an unnecessary hurdle for players wanting to get to BIS.

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Honestly, what constitutes as "unnecessary?". What about time sink because of weekly lock out, the acquisition of said materia? Finding other players to group with?

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Originally Posted by Lan_Mantear

I see your point, and I tend to agree. You are right, we are talking about melds here. However, making melds available to a broader audience will not be detrimental to Crafters. They already partially did that for certain past relic steps.

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It takes away from the very little Player:Player aspect that crafters already have, as well as one of the ongoing purpose for a crafter. I would sympathize a bit more if melds were something that are constantly present like say, glamour, but instead they're done in one sitting (especially on non-crafted gear since they're all 100% slots and you can't overmeld them). Even with the suggestions of crafting a catalyst to be tradable, it becomes another revenue that takes away from player interaction, since they can instead just go to the board for their needs, and the overall demand would also be significantly lower than that of a glamour because of what I said earlier.

I support this thread. Like the OP said, it made sense at first, but since materia is now more of a thing than ever, it should be much more accessible for people to meld now. Maybe you can do a meet in the middle type of thing where anyone can meld in main slots, but only crafting jobs can do forbidden slots. Not needing crafting jobs for it won't make said jobs any less relevant.

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Originally Posted by Conradus

No, you're pushing hard to remove a minor inconvenience. We're pushing hard to preserve crafting as a meaningful pursuit.

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It is literally the most binary player interaction possible. It isn't worth defending. The name I choose to give a commendation to has more interaction and impact. Picking a name from a list is more compelling than clicking "Confirm" to meld a materia.

Why would you not instead ask Square to make crafting rewarding in and of itself? If crafting is such a chore that people don't even want to level it, that's incredibly telling. Trying to hold onto some old artifact of design in the name of 'relevance' when you want a more rewarding experience in general is absurd.

Asking for less player interaction in a MMO?

Par for the course with this community!

Maybe I'm biased for being omni 60 craft but I enjoy the increased interactions with my server community. No thanks.

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Originally Posted by Conradus

No, you're pushing hard to remove a minor inconvenience. We're pushing hard to preserve crafting as a meaningful pursuit.

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The person I quoted acknowledged it was a minor inconvenience. If that is the case people in her court are pushing to preserve a minor inconvenience.

You very well may be in a different camp.

I disagree this makes crafting a meaningful pursuit. There is nothing meaningful about it. It's a pointless restriction that isn't fun and adds an inconvenience on the majority of players. There is no reason for this. I'm not entirely sure why you feel my suggestion of having a creature create a meld kit takes away from the keeping crafters as a meaningful pursuit. Perhaps you care to elaborate?

BTW anyone know why this patch is called "Gears of Change" It actually quite brilliant when you think about it. One part of it is the main Scenario, here is the other reason. They want to put in place a system where player would have to interact and socialize with one another as a community to finish a common goal. The Mentor System, and the new Gear sets. Both have one thing in common. They require you to interact and communicate with your fellow players to get your objective done. The dark matter need to meld your gear,once again requires that u enter Sycus towers,the labrith of the Ancients ,The World Of Darkness. These are all light raids wich require teamwork from your fellow players to get the job done. Its actually quite brilliant in how this patch was set up and the name of the patch describes it perfectly.

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Originally Posted by Zephyranthes

You just want to make your life simpler and get the benefits of those who leveled crafting classes without the need to do so.



Heaven forbid that you actually need some sort of interaction with another player in a MMO.

Compelled to pay for basic melds and baiting using extravagant tips? You're exaggerating since if you have the patience to wait around 5 minutes, there's always a kind-hearted crafter around.

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Creating a reliance structure is not a very good way to create a social experience. It adds a scale of power.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Creating a reliance structure is not a very good way to create a social experience. It adds a scale of power.

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You're not reliant though, you can level a crafter just like everyone else.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

You're not reliant though, you can level a crafter just like everyone else.

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Heh, whatever. This argument is going no where. I feel like both sides are arguing just to be right and not too actually benefit the future of this game.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Honestly, what constitutes as "unnecessary?". What about time sink because of weekly lock out, the acquisition of said materia? Finding other players to group with?

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That is debatable isn't it? What's needless to me, might be completely necessary to you.

Let me pose another question. In the grind for relic, why did SE allow players to meld materia to a mystical scroll without restriction? Was that necessary/unnecessary? How is what we are talking about any different?

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

It takes away from the very little Player:Player aspect that crafters already have, as well as one of the ongoing purpose for a crafter. I would sympathize a bit more if melds were something that are constantly present like say, glamour, but instead they're done in one sitting (especially on non-crafted gear since they're all 100% slots and you can't overmeld them). Even with the suggestions of crafting a catalyst to be tradable, it becomes another revenue that takes away from player interaction, since they can instead just go to the board for their needs, and the overall demand would also be significantly lower than that of a glamour because of what I said earlier.

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I can get behind the social interaction. We have little enough in this game as it is. However, I don't really see melding having any true impact on player to player interactions. You could replace the request to meld functionality with an NPC and no one would care enough to tell the difference.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Heh, whatever. This argument is going no where. I feel like both sides are arguing just to be right and not too actually benefit the future of this game.

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To benefit the future of the game, they would need to add raid-equivalent gear through crafting, but that will never happen because, in their own words, they don't want people buying their way to victory.

In the meantime, we have little things like melds and cheap repairs to enjoy. Don't try robbing us of one of the few benefits that crafting still affords.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

In the meantime, we have little things like melds and cheap repairs to enjoy. Don't try robbing us of one of the few benefits that crafting still affords.

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Crafting is broke when we rely on melds and cheap repairs to give it meaning. SE's argument of not wanting people to 'buy' their way to victory is flawed. That already happens when players are selling clears in party finder.

I personally think SE views crafts as Glamour shops, looking at you blacksmiths! You have my moogle weapon ready yet? Which makes me feel sad.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

To benefit the future of the game, they would need to add raid-equivalent gear through crafting, but that will never happen because, in their own words, they don't want people buying their way to victory.

In the meantime, we have little things like melds and cheap repairs to enjoy. Don't try robbing us of one of the few benefits that crafting still affords.

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And unique glamour items, and drastically cheaper than going-price glamour prisms, and unique furniture, and your own ability to make raid food and potions, and commission for crafting high level gear, and your own unique looking gear through scrips, and a drastically increased ability to profit through the market board.

Crafting is poorly designed in that it requires a lot of investment and capital, but there's certainly no lack of benefits to it. And to suggest that the incredibly minor benefit of inconveniencing others is "one of the few" is simply hyperbole.

While we are at it, why be inconvenienced by having to kill bosses in this game for loot or having to level jobs when we could just buy fully geared and leveled characters on mogstation? For a additional mogstation charge, SE could hire a child to play the game for you and they could send you emails on how fun it is too!

But yea, seriously, how is needing someone with a crafting job to meld material so terrible. If you are in a static group or fc of some sort, odds are that one of the eight people have it leveled... If not, I'm sure you could find one reliable person a week to help you meld a materia for free. I do it for any of my friends that ask if I'm not in a instance. Sometimes I might ask them to actually come to a aetheryte where I am near to... cause well, I don't think I should have to port everywhere... but if there is a good reason they can't come to me, I DO infact go to them as well to meld for them. Because well, that's what a friend does. This game is getting so anti-social, people don't wanna even make friends anymore it seems?

Needing a craft in order to perform a meld makes sense. The craftsman is required to make or modify the gear. This is similar to repair - you need to be a crafter (of the correct level) to repair as well.

So, just like repair, provide NPCs that will do it for you for a fee. Maybe restrict those NPCs to not being able to do forbidden melds. That would make sense with the new materia compatible lore gear (which doesn't allow forbidden melds). Overmeld would be left to crafters and crafted gear.

Really, you don't want to do overmelds yourself anyway. So frustrating. Fail .... fail .... fail ...

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Originally Posted by Delmontyb

I enjoy crafting in the game, but the idea of "you don't craft so you can't suggest this idea" is at it's root a bad argument to make, and someone could then just turn around and argue the opposite, and we would get no-where. :S

I hope people will see this request for what it is, not a cry to be anti-social, but rather a needed QOL improvement that benefits a vast majority of players.

This system should be fun, but currently the process is anything but fun.

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The opposite of my argument wouldn't work. "I don't craft and you do so let me do something that benefits me even though I've never experienced it?" Also I think it's fun to see your gear numbers go up, it's partly why some people play RPGs, to level and get upgrades

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

Really, you don't want to do overmelds yourself anyway. So frustrating. Fail .... fail .... fail ...

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To be honest, overmelds are rather gut-wrenching when failed over and over and over and over even for someone else. Especially if you're the one doing it for them. It's a frustrating and depressing guilt no matter who does it.

The idea of removing materia melding from crafting is ridiculous and honestly utterly stupid. I've never once known a crafter that expects a tip or payment to meld, if you ask them ahead of time, and have the catalyst/materia yourself. If they have to supply one/both things though, then yes, they deserve the payment of it. If you don't want to ask someone to do so, level your own crafters up, it's not that hard.

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Originally Posted by Ilitsa

The idea of removing materia melding from crafting is ridiculous and honestly utterly stupid. I've never once known a crafter that expects a tip or payment to meld, if you ask them ahead of time, and have the catalyst/materia yourself. If they have to supply one/both things though, then yes, they deserve the payment of it. If you don't want to ask someone to do so, level your own crafters up, it's not that hard.

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Only because raiding gears can now be melded is why they suddenly want this. They just don't want ot have to ask other people to meld for them, nor do they want to level crafts. They just want it easy. > >

At least make it so that if you have a level 60 crafter you can do it yourself, or make it somewhat class specific. WVR for cloth wearing classes, LTW for MNK/BRD/NIN, and BLSM for the rest. Enough of the mix and match BS.

I don't mind that you need a crafter to do it, but I don't want to have to level every craft to do it, or hunt someone down. That isn't to say I don't look for the proper people or friends. I also tip 20k per meld. I just wish I could do it myself.

Also, it'd be nice if they stopped making MNKS gear melds Leather/Leather/Leather/WEAVER/Leather. That is so annoying...

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

At least make it so that if you have a level 60 crafter you can do it yourself, or make it somewhat class specific. WVR for cloth wearing classes, LTW for MNK/BRD/NIN, and BLSM for the rest. Enough of the mix and match BS.

I don't mind that you need a crafter to do it, but I don't want to have to level every craft to do it, or hunt someone down. That isn't to say I don't look for the proper people or friends. I also tip 20k per meld. I just wish I could do it myself.

Also, it'd be nice if they stopped making MNKS gear melds Leather/Leather/Leather/WEAVER/Leather. That is so annoying...

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That wish to do it yourself is the exact reason why many of us do level all crafts. The inevitable ease that comes with being a jack of all trades is a universal feeling once you've come across an occasion where you lack it.

Admittedly, various crafts for a single job can be annoying in other ways too. "Hmmm this job seems to have a lot of Weaver stuff, maybe this equip is Weaver. Nope. Maybe Leatherworking? Nope. Armorer? No? Where the hell... Alchemy? Are you serious? Alchemy..." I'm sure some of us have run into that little annoyance from time to time.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Creating a reliance structure is not a very good way to create a social experience. It adds a scale of power.

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In this game, reliance is not really the case. Everybody has equal access to the melding feature. TC is just lazy to do so and wants a quick way to access it without giving effort. Reliance is when the game itself limits you to do something such as materials only obtainable via specialization which a character can only have 3 max.

Why don't you level a crafting class?

Pick one of the below excuses:
- It's hard. (debatable, since it's really not if you use leves)
- Not interested.
- Lazy.
- Not my style.

There isn't even a stat requirement in melding.

Everyone has access to lvl a crafter. While at the same time everyone has access to a gatherer for the supplementary mats required to meld. Whether you choose to take advantage of those opportunities is completely up to the player.

If you choose to not take advantage of the opportunity, you can easily ask another player who has to meld items for you at little to no cost to you.

The problem is many people want a handout when the handout has been there for years.

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Originally Posted by Zephyranthes

In this game, reliance is not really the case. Everybody has equal access to the melding feature. TC is just lazy to do so and wants a quick way to access it without giving effort. Reliance is when the game itself limits you to do something such as materials only obtainable via specialization which a character can only have 3 max.

Why don't you level a crafting class?

Pick one of the below excuses:
- It's hard. (debatable, since it's really not if you use leves)
- Not interested.
- Lazy.
- Not my style.

There isn't even a stat requirement in melding.

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I disagree with your first assessment, but I can see where you are coming from. I don't think that we should resort to judgements such as "TC is just lazy", it's unfair and a tad rude.

As for your question, is that a rhetoric question or are you asking me specifically? If you are asking me, I'll give my answer, and I'll choose one of your presets.

Your preset: Not interested / Not my style.

My long answer: I play FFXIV to have fun, and I tried out crafting and it is anything but fun for me. I'd honestly rather do almost anything else. I've never partaken in any game feature in any video game in the 30 years that I've been playing video games that has been so dreadfully boring. In my opinion, it is so far beyond poorly designed that I am surprised it passed it into production. That said, I understand there are those people who enjoy it, and that's great. I am definitely not going to level a crafter, and if it came down to level a crafter or you can't raid, then I would immediately unsub the game.

I hope that answers your question.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Everyone has access to lvl a crafter. While at the same time everyone has access to a gatherer for the supplementary mats required to meld. Whether you choose to take advantage of those opportunities is completely up to the player.

If you choose to not take advantage of the opportunity, you can easily ask another player who has to meld items for you at little to no cost to you.

The problem is many people want a handout when the handout has been there for years.

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You can easily do this. I just fail to understand why this is in the game as it is. It seems to be a rather poor design choice that I haven't seen any good arguments in favour of.

Crafters don't mind being bothered by people to meld for them.
Not a hassle getting it done either...I don't see why removing the crafter restriction is a good idea. (It's an MMO. People should communicate anyway.)

I just go to Idyllshire and shout for a meld.

example: /sh LF LVL60 <insert job here> to meld materia.

I will allow you to copy/paste this as a macro. :P

Let me preface this by saying that I am not a crafter myself (my highest is lv22).

An honest question: For those of you that want to be able to meld without the need of crafters, what role do you want crafters to have in this game?

Crafted gear is really only ever a stepping stone or for glamour. With adding an NPC for non-forbidden melds, there might as well only be 3 crafting classes: Alchemist (for potions), Culinarian (for food), and glamour-maker (for glamour/housing).

As for dependencies being bad, MMOs are built on the basis that player have to be dependent on each other. I think the biggest flaw with the crafting system here is that until the specialist system was introduced, a crafter could be entirely self-sufficient and even now, not much emphasis is placed on the specialists.

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Originally Posted by Zephyranthes

TC is just lazy to do so and wants a quick way to access it without giving effort.

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If being "social" means being forced to deal with people who think this way I think I'd rather just be anti-social. This "get leet or get beat" attitude is toxic.

I fail to see what's so "social" about getting a meld by shouting in the first place. I get more social interaction walking by someone in a hallway than I do in requesting a meld.

LoL. Certainly a lot more social than talking to an NPC.

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Originally Posted by RhaegarFFXIFenrir

If being "social" means being forced to deal with people who think this way I think I'd rather just be anti-social. This "get leet or get beat" attitude is toxic.

I fail to see what's so "social" about getting a meld by shouting in the first place. I get more social interaction walking by someone in a hallway than I do in requesting a meld.

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Before the whole socializing discussion, a more important point is:

Why don't you level a crafting class? Nothing's preventing you to do so.

You want to have instant access to something that other people worked for.

While I understand that people want a system which adequately rewards them for all of the time they put into crafting, it doesn't have to be a zero sum game. Most of the inconvenience comes from the fact that there isn't any system in place to facilitate melding as a service to begin with. We have the market board/retainer system for items but no such system exists for melding. Melding is technically no different from any other crafter provided item, except you have to manually ask for and coordinate the transaction yourself - not a major issue, but kinda tedious, tbh. :p

Inter-dependencies are good, meaning a mutual dependency. You need other people to raid but then again, they need you too. With the melding system the raider needs the crafter but the crafter doesn't need the raider. Apparently, crafters don't charge any fees or expect any tips for melding, so the crafter isn't getting gil from the raider either, meaning there is no economic value in this restriction? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Zephyranthes

Why don't you level a crafting class? Nothing's preventing you to do so.

You want to have instant access to something that other people worked for.

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Why don't you stop presuming you have some moral high ground to tell others how they should be playing the game. This has nothing to do with what you worked for or didn't work for. I worked for my gear. I can't even utilize it to its fullest extent without having someone else step in and provide some service. It's nonsense. If SE had left the melding off the raid gear we wouldn't be having this discussion. So, I guess new players shouldn't get xp from their level 50 quests either because those of us who played before Heavensward didn't get that xp? The game changes. That's what updates are. if you want a game that never changes play something offline. This is a MMO, it needs to change as the needs of the players change.

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Originally Posted by RhaegarFFXIFenrir

Why don't you stop presuming you have some moral high ground.

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I have no side in this, personally I dont care what they do about melds.

But one thing I have noticed in this thread is the majority of your posts are extremely hostile.

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Originally Posted by Levy9

With the melding system the raider needs the crafter but the crafter doesn't need the raider. Apparently, crafters don't charge any fees or expect any tips for melding, so the crafter isn't getting gil from the raider either, meaning there is no economic value in this restriction? :confused:

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This situation can best be explained by a metaphor. A kid gets a toy. After a few years the kid doesn't play with the toy anymore and it just sits at the bottom of his toy chest. The kid's little brother wants to start playing with that toy and suddenly it's his most precious possession. How dare his brother want to play with HIS toy? His brother should just get his own toys, or don't play at all.

It's not a perfect metaphor, but it gets the point across. I'm seeing a lot of sentiment like this. There is some good-natured resistance, but then there are those crying that some lazy people are trying to steal their toy without working for it.

People that want this removed from crafters so they can do themselves cause they don't want to level a crafting job are you one that blast though everything fast as you can do beat everything in first month then complain there nothing to do for 2 months?