Getting refused to EX groups as a DRK

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

Darkside isn't really a cooldown. You should always have it turned on unless you're bad.

DRK does have quite a few oGCD attacks, but that does not mean that they'll do more damage than WAR. Considering their major offensive buffs, DRK will generally be dealing 92% damage (Darkside at all times), WAR 90% (Maim at all times), and PLD 88% (Keen flurry a third of the time) while in their tanking stances. Then you factor in things like Unchained, Eye of the Storm and Berserk, and WAR's damage starts to soar. Furthermore, WAR has the ability to stance dance freely. Even if DRK can manage to outDPS WAR in Defiance, that doesn't really matter, since good WARs should be freely switching throughout the fight, outputting massive damage with Deliverance, and then switching to Defiance to use Inner Beast and eat any big hits.


Because of the massive MP cost and GCD attached to Grit, DRK doesn't really have this luxury. WAR has changed quite a bit with 3.0, and you're not giving it the credit it deserves.

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It's actually the other way around. You yourself have apparently leveled a Drk but you clearly haven't mastered it yet since you're saying you should never have Dark Side off and you're complaining about the MP cost to turn on Grit. There are times, when you're trying to fill your mp bar back up to full super quick, when you SHOULD turn off Dark Side. By turning off Dark Side + Grit and Using blood weapon (and shadow wall should you need to soak damage) you'll recover your MP back up to full within half the time it takes for blood weapon to be fully used up. Once it's back up to full, you can toggle DS back on, use a high MP draining DA combo, turn DA back off, finish topping off your MP (which will happen just before blood weapon expires) then hop back into Grit and turn back on DS. Is this a complicated move? Sure. Is it complicated for me? No. Why? Because I don't use a controller, I assign every ability I have to my keyboard, and I've practiced and gotten used to how to easily refill my MP back up to fill with ease while not having to sacrifice any DPS. And ever since the expansion's launch, the only time a Warrior has surpassed me in DPS while we were both tanking is when they spike their dps with their offensive buffs/fell cleave/etc but once the spike ends their dps just goes back down and I surpass them again within seconds. Just practice more with Drk and stop being so biased because every time you compare the two you list off everything that a War can do in depth but hardly touch on anything (if at all) that the Drk can do. It's YOU that's not giving Drk the credit deserves because you're spoiled with an easier rotation with Warrior. It's the same song and dance that it was when 2.0 came out. People complained that Warrior wasn't nearly as good as the Pld or couldn't do as much damage as a Pld because people weren't used to it yet.

@ Faytte - Nah they are just squishier to sustained damage plain and simple, especially in Alex where there is a plethora of magic damage. And since Savage will most likely just be the same relative mechanics with boosted damage that discrepancy will grow even more.

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Originally Posted by Ipkonfig

The only time it effects game play is if you let yourself get extremely low and the glitch causes you to drop to zero making Dark Side fall off. Why on earth would you let your MP get so low? At that level of MP you lose almost all utility, you can't grab ranged threat, you can't generate AoE threat, and you can't Dark Arts till you get yourself back to at least 33% MP.

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Because everything goes perfect every time right?

I mean why would healers let your HP go to 0? You just lose the fight then why would they do that?

Because things happen.

Not only that but it also effects casts. Say you just got a MP tick and you are going to cast idk...abyssal drain or something or even Dark Arts just in time to get that SE heal in a clutch moment! O wait that bug poped up and guess what your cast didnt go off.

A tank's HP dropping to zero and a DRK's MP dropping to zero are not the same thing. HP has multiple factors, how much damage the tank is taking, is the tank dodging mechanics that are avoidable, is the healer healing in cleric stance, is there a down healer, are the DPS standing in stuff they shouldn't, etc, etc, etc.

DRK MP management is completely up to the DRK, and that's it.

And sure nothing ever goes perfect, but isn't that how tanking typically is? We tanks shape the fight and control the flow, regardless of how that flow moves we need to control it, part of this is managing your MP, just in case you have those emergency situations where you need something done right away.

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Originally Posted by Ipkonfig

A tank's HP dropping to zero and a DRK's MP dropping to zero are not the same thing. HP has multiple factors, how much damage the tank is taking, is the tank dodging mechanics that are avoidable, is the healer healing in cleric stance, is there a down healer, are the DPS standing in stuff they shouldn't, etc, etc, etc.

DRK MP management is completely up to the DRK, and that's it.

And sure nothing ever goes perfect, but isn't that how tanking typically is? We tanks shape the fight and control the flow, regardless of how that flow moves we need to control it, part of this is managing your MP, just in case you have those emergency situations where you need something done right away.

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Right....and as we have been saying that MP management is made even harder because of this bug, which you seem to think is inconsequential when it isnt.

This isnt some minor thing as you are passing it off to be.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

Unless you're fighting nothing but trash (and phase 3 of Bismark Ex is basically a glorified trash pull anyway), there's no way you're going to be unable to spend your MP faster than Blood Price regenerates it. Especially against bosses with slow attack speeds (I'm looking at you, A1).

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People actually tank A1 in Grit?

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

(BRD may have died without my knowing, I can't understand why he parsed so low - ACT not registering WM damage after patch maybe?).

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I know this is completely off topic, but it sounds like this never-ending debate that everyone has here with Kaedan could use a small break :p

I know our Bard hopped in the machine thing to move Bombs and apply the de-buffs to the adds. I'm not sure how much DPS you can do when your in that, but it possibly contributed to a low parse? I used to main BRD, and although I haven't gotten it to 60 yet (58 atm), I did play around the changes. I'm on console so I can't parse but visually I could tell an increase in my attacks in WM over the old version and applying it was obviously easier. I can't think of a reason a damage increase to a skill could break ACT, but then again I don't use it so I wouldn't know if what I say holds merit in regards to that.

Sorry for interrupting with senseless non-tank drivel. Y'all can now get back to your regularly scheduled bickering.

Oh that was definitely why. Forgot about the go-cart

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Originally Posted by Agrieus

It's actually the other way around. You yourself have apparently leveled a Drk but you clearly haven't mastered it yet since you're saying you should never have Dark Side off and you're complaining about the MP cost to turn on Grit. There are times, when you're trying to fill your mp bar back up to full super quick, when you SHOULD turn off Dark Side. By turning off Dark Side + Grit and Using blood weapon (and shadow wall should you need to soak damage) you'll recover your MP back up to full within half the time it takes for blood weapon to be fully used up. Once it's back up to full, you can toggle DS back on, use a high MP draining DA combo, turn DA back off, finish topping off your MP (which will happen just before blood weapon expires) then hop back into Grit and turn back on DS.

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Um... no. Never, under any circumstance, should you actually be turning Darkside off while actively in combat (although, absolutely feel free to turn it off during phase changes and invulnerable periods, obviously). That's a lot of work to do for a lot of reduced efficiency (and god, that blood weapon is going to wreck your TP and you're not even getting damage for it!). Darkside is so powerful and so important that you absolutely will not be making those gains back if you turn it off. Learn to manage your MP without turning it off.

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Is this a complicated move? Sure. Is it complicated for me? No. Why? Because I don't use a controller, I assign every ability I have to my keyboard, and I've practiced and gotten used to how to easily refill my MP back up to fill with ease while not having to sacrifice any DPS.

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Except you are sacrificing your DPS. And congratulations for setting up your basic layout like every single other PC player does... I guess? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with that. Does anyone actually have trouble hitting their keys?

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And ever since the expansion's launch, the only time a Warrior has surpassed me in DPS while we were both tanking is when they spike their dps with their offensive buffs/fell cleave/etc but once the spike ends their dps just goes back down and I surpass them again within seconds.

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So you don't hang out with many good WARs. That's not unreasonable. And I out DPS DPS players all the time, even in tank stance, and by significantly large margins. That means nothing other than the fact that we run into a lot of bad players.

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Just practice more with Drk and stop being so biased because every time you compare the two you list off everything that a War can do in depth but hardly touch on anything (if at all) that the Drk can do. It's YOU that's not giving Drk the credit deserves because you're spoiled with an easier rotation with Warrior.

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...except for the fact that the main reason that I play and enjoy DRK as a class is because its rotation is harder than WAR's. If the issue were with the complexity of DRK's rotation, I would have been saying that. But it's not, the issue is with the results.

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It's the same song and dance that it was when 2.0 came out. People complained that Warrior wasn't nearly as good as the Pld or couldn't do as much damage as a Pld because people weren't used to it yet.

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...except WAR wasn't as good as PLD. By an extremely significant margin. And they basically remade WAR because the disparity between the classes was so huge.


Also, for future reference, paragraph spacing and post formatting are important concepts. Please learn them.

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Originally Posted by Edmond_Guilford

People actually tank A1 in Grit?

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Sorry, not MLG enough to know the fight on day 1.

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Originally Posted by Agrieus

It's actually the other way around. You yourself have apparently leveled a Drk but you clearly haven't mastered it yet since you're saying you should never have Dark Side off and you're complaining about the MP cost to turn on Grit. There are times, when you're trying to fill your mp bar back up to full super quick, when you SHOULD turn off Dark Side. By turning off Dark Side + Grit and Using blood weapon (and shadow wall should you need to soak damage) you'll recover your MP back up to full within half the time it takes for blood weapon to be fully used up. Once it's back up to full, you can toggle DS back on, use a high MP draining DA combo, turn DA back off, finish topping off your MP (which will happen just before blood weapon expires) then hop back into Grit and turn back on DS.

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I stopped reading after this part.

I've never heard anything funner in my life. If you don't have Darkside going 24/7, ESPECIALLY when outside of Grit, what you're doing is wasting so much MP by regenerating your MP over the cap, and then wasting your buff times by toggling Darkside between gcd's instead of an actual oGCD skill. If you have Grit off, Blood Weapon will carry your MP. While it's down, you simply lay off the Dark Arts spam a little whule using syphon to keep your MP going. Once it's back up, it's back to DA'ing every single souleater and C&S you can.

You talk about having 'mastering' Drk, yet what you're doing is the silliest thing I have seen any Drk do yet, and I've seen Drk's do some pretty silly things. The goal for a Drk's MP is to keep it floating. You NEVER want to max out, and you NEVER want to hit critical low point without a way to spike it back up. In other words, you never want to let Darkside fall off due to complete depletion of MP, and you never want to over regen your MP, or let it sit at cap. Syphon alone can prevent this, and outside of Grit, Blood Weapon will make sure that never happens. As for sitting at cap, Darkside alone should prevent that, but if you have anything over 5.5k MP, you best Dark Arts something, or throw out a Passenger, which I do literally on cooldown when I have Blood Weapon going, on top of Drk Artsing every Souleater.

Also, no matter what you seem to think, dropping Darkside for ANY reason at all while you're capable of hitting something, is a DPS loss. So yes, you're sacrificing a LOT of your DPS actually, and are likely wasting a lot of your MP as well every single time you enable Darkside. In every fight right now, dropping Darkside for anything is a waste of MP, because nothing stays out of your attack range for long enough for the Darkside ticks to outweigh the cost of throwing it back up, excluding maybe Bloody Fuller in Ravana. You have plenty of time to prepare for that however.

P.S. Blood Weapon is your main damage buff outside of Grit. Using that without Darkside on is the most foolish thing you can do.

P.S.S. I decided to read the rest, and those Warriors you went up against were likely very terrible, probably didn't utilize Berserk as much as they should have, and probably didn't know how to stance dance. Which in that case, they were playing entirely defensively, though with very questionable performance.

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Originally Posted by Edmond_Guilford

People actually tank A1 in Grit?

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They do, it surprises even me. I take whichever boss I'm on, power slash, Dark Arts power slash, maybe power slash a 3rd time if I think I need it to push my enmity more, then drop Grit and never turn it back on again. Rotate my CD's to make the healers job a bit easier, and just go completely ham on Blood Weapon and all out assault. Often there are times where my bosses HP is much lower than the other, so I tell every DPS to go on the other boss, and I wind up either finishing my boss off on my own, or getting it low enough to where both bosses die at almost the same time. (And this starts from as high as 15% HP left on my boss)

But well I mean even as a Drk, I got all 4 floors cleared only a few hours after the patch hit.

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Originally Posted by Ditto

I've never heard anything funner in my life.

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Then by all means, go have some "fun" then! (It's fine, I knew what you really meant)

Jests aside, all I said was I feel like I've gotten comfortable with my Drk, I didn't say anything about being a "master". I also never said anything about going over the MP cap. The whole idea behind what I said was to basically go from low mp back up to near full in the time it takes for Dark Side to go through it's CD cycle and at no point will you ever be over your mp cap lol. Sure, you'll possibly loose a very small amount of dps, (because all you need to do to refill it back up to full is to do the power slash + syphon strike combo then back to power slash and another syphon and most of your mp is already back from that) but you'll recover mp quicker, which is the whole main idea about the method I use. It's a quick burst to refill MP and that's it.

I'm not going through full sets of rotations just to do this like you seem to think lol. You CAN leave Dark Side on while you're doing this, but it takes longer to refill your mp if you do. And all of this is assuming that blood price is on CD and, again, you just need a quick way to refill your mp.

P.S. If you you'd like to stay in blood weapon for a little longer once you've got your mp where you want it to be, then you can easily turn Dark Side back on and slam your target with a few Dark Art boosted abilities. You'll already be nearly topped off when Dark Side has been reset so there probably won't be any harm not to unless you need to conserve mp (and aside from that, you'll still be recovering some of the mp you're burning up from Dark Arts). Shadow Wall is also good to use while you're Grit is off in order to cover your lost defenses.

P.S.S I take what I said back about it being a dps loss....because by recharging your mp up quickly this way, you're more able to recover lost dps by using multiple casted Dark Arts buffed attacks. If you don't like the way I play my Drk then that's totally fine with me. It works and I don't have any MP issues and my dps is solid so I've got no complaints. It's a fun job.

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Originally Posted by Ipkonfig

@ Faytte - Nah they are just squishier to sustained damage plain and simple, especially in Alex where there is a plethora of magic damage. And since Savage will most likely just be the same relative mechanics with boosted damage that discrepancy will grow even more.

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What plethora of magic? Most everything has been physical?


First bosses attacks are all physical.
Second boss--things that hurt? All physical (dolls, gob walkers)
Third boss? All physical (hands, attacks in phase 3)
Fourth boss? This is the closest mix? Perpetual Ray is magic damage but a warrior can have an IB through each one. Once disonance stops casting, use IB--have -20% for the rest of the ability. Do that for the first one, then for the second do that and vengance. Third one, do that and thrill of battle, or equilibirum.

Not sure where you see lots of magic damage at, cause literally--its one thing, and I would much rather still have a warrior on it applying 10% - damage (missiles are physical damage, for instance).

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Originally Posted by Ditto

But well I mean even as a Drk, I got all 4 floors cleared only a few hours after the patch hit.

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Well none of it was hard? It was easier than doing the EX's--basically just harder than a hard mode dungeon until you got to A4 (and even that isnt hard?). If they live up to making savage..you know... SAVAGE (harder than old coils supposedly) that will be a true test.

This was entirely too easy to really prove anything about classes. As you said, you can tank the majority of them without tank stances on. I did most of A4 in sword oath(turn to shield for running through orbs and tanking the last boss). Did A3 with sword oath until hand slaps/final phase and sword oath throughout a1.

A3 uses a lot of water magic attacks, does it not, Faytte? Particularly during the last phase? A1 has SOME attacks on the magic side (the laser beams, I believe)....but yeah, for the most part it's all primarily physical.

A3's attack animations that hurt are are blockable (tested with bulkwark). Meaning that, anything the boss was doing that hurt as a tank, basically was mitigatable with block damage. There was some aoe damage, certainly? The charge attacks near the end (forget the name) hit everyone for water damage. Rather just top myself off with clemency with that or a party member--a cd for it isnt going to mean much, since that is raid wide damage. Warrior can just ib on it given the long cast time?

A1's lasers; as far as I can tell they wernt magic, but I'm not sure about that. I'll tank it after content with my dark friend and have him test it out. They arn't really busters though--just periodic attacks. You can pop a cd on them to help mitigate, but thats really no different than poping thrill to recover from one, or having IB up as a cd far more often if there IS some tell to pop it.

Anything that hurt, minus the laser was physical, and the laser is easy enough to tank with IB, but -is- a situation where dark mind is nice, i just dont think it makes up for the rest of the warriors kit.

We will need to see how savage pans out to be, but so far id rather have a paladin mt and a war ot in most instances. Which isnt DRK hate (im leveling one up to 60, cause why not? All three tanks is my plan) I just dont see the kit as being impressive defensively.

My main tanking partner is a DRK, and he MTs when we work together.

Drk needs some adjustments, but its neither downright broken, or so far away from optimal that it shouldn't be incorporated into parties.

We've had Rav Ex on farm forever now, and have had Alex 1-4 on farm since day of release.

If you can't find groups that will take you as dark, find better players to play with, or look at improving your own game play.

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Originally Posted by wonka11

My main tanking partner is a DRK, and he MTs when we work together.

Drk needs some adjustments, but its neither downright broken, or so far away from optimal that it shouldn't be incorporated into parties.

We've had Rav Ex on farm forever now, and have had Alex 1-4 on farm since day of release.

If you can't find groups that will take you as dark, find better players to play with, or look at improving your own game play.

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This. None of the current content really cares what tank you are. A Paladin will make things easier for healers (which healers like) but wont do the dps of a dark when both in tank stance.

Anyone being picky -now- is being silly. Things will be clearer in Savage.

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Originally Posted by Agrieus

I also never said anything about going over the MP cap. The whole idea behind what I said was to basically go from low mp back up to near full in the time it takes for Dark Side to go through it's CD cycle and at no point will you ever be over your mp cap lol. Sure, you'll possibly loose a very small amount of dps, (because all you need to do to refill it back up to full is to do the power slash + syphon strike combo then back to power slash and another syphon and most of your mp is already back from that) but you'll recover mp quicker, which is the whole main idea about the method I use. It's a quick burst to refill MP and that's it.

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No, you don't just lose a "very small" amount of DPS, you lose an extremely large amount, and you won't even recover much MP while you're at it. The cost of reactivating Darkside will end up eating up any potential MP you could have regained through the regen you'd get from turning it off during combat (you might even actually go negative... I'd check it, but something like this is so pointless that it's not even worth verifying). And for negligible to potentially negative gains, you end up giving up 15% of all the damage you would be doing during that period. Weapon skills, auto attacks, and oGCDs, as well as wasting the buff from Blood Weapon. And if you end up withholding your oGCDs for when you have Darkside back up again, that's even further losses, as you're essentially dead weight for that entire period where you're doing your crappy MP regen rotation.

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I'm not going through full sets of rotations just to do this like you seem to think lol. You CAN leave Dark Side on while you're doing this, but it takes longer to refill your mp if you do. And all of this is assuming that blood price is on CD and, again, you just need a quick way to refill your mp.

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Or you could just learn to properly manage your MP like every other DRK.

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P.S.S I take what I said back about it being a dps loss....because by recharging your mp up quickly this way, you're more able to recover lost dps by using multiple casted Dark Arts buffed attacks. If you don't like the way I play my Drk then that's totally fine with me. It works and I don't have any MP issues and my dps is solid so I've got no complaints. It's a fun job.

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No, it is a loss, and a very potent one at that. Even if you come up slightly on the positive side of MP gains after the Darkside reactivation cost, you are trading 15% of all the damage you do over that period for 120 extra potency in a single hit. Over the course of 2 Delirium combos (most damage and fastest way to regen MP), that's approximately 251 potency lost. And that's not even including oGCDs that you might throw in, and the most efficient use of Blood Weapon involves using as many oGCD physical attacks as possible. If you end up weaving in Plunge, Reprisal, and Low Blow, that's an additional 75 potency wasted. Should you choose not to use them when they become available, you're not helping your situation any further; and let's just hope you're not using C&S or Salted Earth. At minimum, you're looking at around 325 lost potency with your rotation, which might questionably earn you 120 back. The way you play your DRK strictly worse than every DRK out there, and you absolutely should not be giving any advice about the class to other players.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

-WAR does not have better mitigation than a DRK.

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I did some calculations some time ago, I found that WAR does indeed have better mitigation and it's also slightly better than DRK for magic damage reduction. But those calculations were purely based on theoretical tank busters (and yes I did make up a scenario with an hypothetical magic tank buster), so that doesn't take into account sustained damage instead of burst, or add tanking.

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Originally Posted by Faytte

This. None of the current content really cares what tank you are. A Paladin will make things easier for healers (which healers like) but wont do the dps of a dark when both in tank stance.

Anyone being picky -now- is being silly. Things will be clearer in Savage.

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^ This

People keep using faceroll content as a test to the jobs worthiness. Ravana EX is one of the easiest primals yet. (Garuda,Titan,Ramuh,Shiva,Moogle,Levi were all definitely harder upon release) He just stands there 50% of the fight.

Alexander Normal is just a mini Crystal Tower.

I'm glad they added the content but lets not pretend it proves anything about anyone.

Just common PF chat btw :3
http://i.imgur.com/QnzEspC.jpg

`DRK isn't nearly as bad as everyone is making it out to be. I mean I've cleared all the content so far on it, in the main tank role, rather easily so I'm not holding my breath for any huge changes. Would I like some tweaks? Absolutely. But at this stage of the game, there isn't a reason to choose one tank over another. When Savage comes out, it won't be optimal to be rolling as a DRK MT, sure, but I sincerely doubt it will be impossible. And if you aren't shooting for world first, what does it matter?

Yeah, honestly, and I don't want to play the bad guy roll here, I think a lot of players just need to adjust to DRK. Its not a complete class, but it isnt bad.

Warriors in 2.0 didn't even have near the tools that DRKs do now, and pre-2.1 world firsts were made with warriors solo MTing twintanna, or two warriors downing Turn 5.

Will they be "optimal" for savage, not even by a long shot. However, the difference will be minimal, and good DRKs and good Healers will still down content just fine, still get alex on just fine, and be full savage 220 gear well before the other 90% of their servers are past turn 1.

Listen to me, a player who tanked during the ARR phase, a Warrior who Tanked Caduceus with a SCHOLAR healing him pre-2.1 with 7 stacks to down the turn, there is nothing in your class that will hold you back from clearing.

Will there be changes needed to be made? Sure, they will come. But nothing should deter you from clearing content now and being competitive.

If people don't take you because you're a DRK, its because they're not knowledgeable of the game, and most likely not skilled enough to clear content even with "optimal" group loadouts.

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Originally Posted by wonka11

Warriors in 2.0 didn't even have near the tools that DRKs do now, and pre-2.1 world firsts were made with warriors solo MTing twintanna, or two warriors downing Turn 5.

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World first T5 was done with 2 PLDs. There was one JP group that did Twintania just before 2.1 with 2 WARs but that was after the turn was nerfed and was considered an Epic accomplishment. Solo tanking T5 was always done with a PLD before Echo, so they could chain stun the dreads.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

World first T5 was done with 2 PLDs. There was one JP group that did Twintania just before 2.1 with 2 WARs but that was after the turn was nerfed and was considered an Epic accomplishment. Solo tanking T5 was always done with a PLD before Echo, so they could chain stun the dreads.

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You can have a World First with specific class comps.

Also your memory is foggy, people did it before the JP group. It was actually a NA/Canadian group that did Warrior solo world first Twintanna.

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Originally Posted by wonka11

You can have a World First with specific class comps.

Also your memory is foggy, people did it before the JP group. It was actually a NA/Canadian group that did Warrior solo world first Twintanna.

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Pre 2.1, I don't think so.


....based on a single thread maybe I am wrong. WAR changes were 2.1 right? I can't find any solo WAR clears before 2.1 but there is discussion.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Pre 2.1, I don't think so.

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Thinking is different than reality. I can assure you, that is how it was.

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Originally Posted by wonka11

Thinking is different than reality. I can assure you, that is how it was.

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Send me a link, sounds like you are right, but I can't find actual proof.

What am I a librarian? You have access to google, look it up. You also have access to reddit where people posted about it nearly two years ago.

Did you raid back then? I'm surprised its slipped your memory this easily.

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Originally Posted by wonka11

Warriors in 2.0 didn't even have near the tools that DRKs do now, and pre-2.1 world firsts were made with warriors solo MTing twintanna, or two warriors downing Turn 5. really exceptional healers healing extremely squishy tanks.

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There ya go.

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Originally Posted by Faytte

Well none of it was hard? It was easier than doing the EX's--basically just harder than a hard mode dungeon until you got to A4 (and even that isnt hard?). If they live up to making savage..you know... SAVAGE (harder than old coils supposedly) that will be a true test.

This was entirely too easy to really prove anything about classes. As you said, you can tank the majority of them without tank stances on. I did most of A4 in sword oath(turn to shield for running through orbs and tanking the last boss). Did A3 with sword oath until hand slaps/final phase and sword oath throughout a1.

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Nah the place is fairly easy. The only one we had a difficult time with was the last floor, only because we were double Drking it. And well, having 2 completely selfish by design tanks on a fight like that can really hurt.

Only wiped twice though and then managed to clear it afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Faytte

What plethora of magic? Most everything has been physical?


First bosses attacks are all physical.
Second boss--things that hurt? All physical (dolls, gob walkers)
Third boss? All physical (hands, attacks in phase 3)
Fourth boss? This is the closest mix? Perpetual Ray is magic damage but a warrior can have an IB through each one. Once disonance stops casting, use IB--have -20% for the rest of the ability. Do that for the first one, then for the second do that and vengance. Third one, do that and thrill of battle, or equilibirum.

Not sure where you see lots of magic damage at, cause literally--its one thing, and I would much rather still have a warrior on it applying 10% - damage (missiles are physical damage, for instance).

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I popped Raw Intuition on a gob walker, and didn't see a single parry. Maybe his attacks are magical

It's the first I've heard of that.. FAIK the reason WAR was buffed in 2.1 is because i70 PLD/PLD was clearing COIL week 1 of release - when SE was expecting it to be not so easily accomplished til Crystal Towers i80 gear was available.

Not throwing the BS flag on you, but it's certainly not the popular conjecture..

And all searches I've done hints to the opposite.. which is expected..

Would be a nice find though, props to whoever did it - albeit 2 years late

BCoB wasn't cleared week 1....it was cleared Oct 27th 2013, way after BCoBs release and was nerfed after the first clear.

SCoB was cleared week 2 or 3.

FCoB was cleared week 1.

Ahh welp that's conjecture for you

Posted October 28th:

http://www.gameskinny.com/aauhl/ffxi...for-first-time

Article states world first.. not game, so idk. Nice run done nostalgia lane tho

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

Ahh welp that's conjecture for you

Posted October 28th:

http://www.gameskinny.com/aauhl/ffxi...for-first-time

Article states world first.. not game, so idk. Nice run done nostalgia lane tho

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Yeah BG had the first clear ever of T5 and SE acknowledged it and then nerfed the twister mechanic. They also had the SCoB first clear by pooling together 2 raid groups so they would have 4 total Tome weapons.

Savage coil ignited the JP community especially Lucerzia who went on to get the first FCoB clear.

Don't know if this has been posted yet, but just in case:

Dark Knight and Paladin Comparison

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[TL;DR:] PLDs have better long term physical mitigation via blocking and a different set of cooldowns and better group synergy from a variety of abilities (some mentioned, others not). DRKs have higher MT damage, better magic mitigation, and better self healing.

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Originally Posted by Faytte

What plethora of magic? Most everything has been physical?


First bosses attacks are all physical.
Second boss--things that hurt? All physical (dolls, gob walkers)
Third boss? All physical (hands, attacks in phase 3)
Fourth boss? This is the closest mix? Perpetual Ray is magic damage but a warrior can have an IB through each one. Once disonance stops casting, use IB--have -20% for the rest of the ability. Do that for the first one, then for the second do that and vengance. Third one, do that and thrill of battle, or equilibirum.

Not sure where you see lots of magic damage at, cause literally--its one thing, and I would much rather still have a warrior on it applying 10% - damage (missiles are physical damage, for instance).

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Floor 1 is negligible since the damage is pathetically low.

Floor 2 does in fact have magical attacks as stated above, when I went in as WAR there were attacks that were not parried during Raw Intuition. Gob Walkers and the dolls have something that couldn't be parried I didn't see what it was because it was happening to fast, but out of the string of parries something that hit hard came through not parried.

Floor 3 has plenty of magic attacks, final phases Cascades for example, eating tethers are magical, the hand damage is negligible since you just group up and split it with everyone.

Floor 4 is all magic. The entire fight is nothing but magic damage, except the adds auto attacks I guess, and if you get quarantined that add is physical, Discoid is a heavy hitting tank buster, especially at the end of the fight and it's magic.

When savage opens up I imagine Floor 4 is going to be a DRK's dream for MTing.

I'm currently lvling DRK. (main PLD and WAR) What does DRK bring to the table for magic damage besides INT down.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

I'm currently lvling DRK. (main PLD and WAR) What does DRK bring to the table for magic damage besides INT down.

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Dark mind

15% (30% with DA) mage damage reduction on a 60sec CD