Patch 2.56 comming April 21

Brings to mind T5 the other day. 4/8 players have Final Witness title. Cake walk surely. 5 wipes later ego's have been crushed. Damn its 4/21. I forgot what happened yesterday.

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

http://puu.sh/hkA6B/1c0295404d.png

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Practicing with pugs (with different people) is not the same as practicing with the same people over and over again. Just to highlight that fact . Good try thou

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Originally Posted by Mature

Practicing with pugs (with different people) is not the same as practicing with the same people over and over again. Just to highlight that fact . Good try thou

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You create a static group of people to do content with by creating learning parties and inviting people who were good in your attempts. OOOOOOOO:

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

You create a static group of people to do content with by creating learning parties and inviting people who were good in your attempts. OOOOOOOO:

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You just don't get it man! You're either born with a static or you're screwed over and be forced to go through the pug wheel without ever being able to form connections! Those with statics won the genetic lottery, just like the jedis and their midichloroforms or whatever!

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Originally Posted by Gardes

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

You create a static group of people to do content with by creating learning parties and inviting people who were good in your attempts. OOOOOOOO:

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You just don't get it man! You're either born with a static or you're screwed over

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Thats not true. I know many statics that formed exactly the way he described.

Only 2 kinds of ppl are left out:

1.) That who don't try it and don't work for success

2.) That who are performing bad

I queued for T13 in solo DF, just for laughs, and boy did it not disappoint. Composition was 2 warriors, 2 scholars and 4 monks. No joke.

I just df'd mnk nin 2x blm sch whm pld war. made it to 30% second try but the tank who was apparently new to tanking it missed holmgang, every attempt after that was sloppy entering last phase.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

Thats not true. I know many statics that formed exactly the way he described.

Only 2 kinds of ppl are left out:

1.) That who don't try it and don't work for success

2.) That who are performing bad

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Pretty sure that was sarcasm.

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Originally Posted by ShaneDawn

That may be. Mostly the people still stuck at T9 are there for pure performance issues; either the mentioned lackluster dps, mechanic handling or finding a proper group to do it with. I'm not counting people new to the game or raiding, but rather those people who are stuck at the instance for months.

Overall I have pretty mixed feelings about the echo in general. While it's now easier to go farm and I can generally play them more easily with a group of not so hardcore frands now, it also rewards complacent people who do not pull adequate dps as you mentioned. I think there should not be lazy people in an instance regarded as the current hc end-game in the first place. I've already seen MNKs with 200ish dps in the FCoB. O__o

That is just my opinion though, gratz to anyone just getting into the FCoB now. Hope it's as much for you as it was for me.

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Not sure why I missed this. I'm sorry!

It's mostly a combination of all the mentioned above. Some people will struggle, no matter what, in FCOB. Even with echo. Only if they go past through T9, of course.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

Turns 10 and 13 will be nerfed the hardest by the echo. Turn 10 people will prob survive tether if only 2 people stack now. Turn 13 people will prob only get 2 flattens in first phase, and be able to survive 2 stacks of flare star with minimal to no mitigation in second phase. Not sure if the echo will be enough to skip the last ahk morn in last phase, im thinking it wont be for most players.

Turns 11 and 12's difficulty will be unchanged for the most part.

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My group's been pushing 2 flattens in the first phase for a long time, and avoiding the last akh morn in our last few clears.

Surviving 2 stacks of Flare Star is only really an issue when someone is weakened or isn't topped off.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

I just don't see why it was needed at all. It's still the current endgame-- there's nothing beyond it to encourage people to get through it for yet, so why does it need Echo already?

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Because they're trying to catch people up to current endgame. It happens every time.

Just click off the echo if you want to do without. o.o

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Toggling off the echo doesn't change the mechanics to the way it was before the nerfs. Echo =/= mechanic nerfs.

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There was only one mechanical change, and I actually like that change. My group's been having to hold back on pushing the second gigaflare for awhile now because of the third add spawning regardless. Tethered gigaflare = good times!

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Originally Posted by Gardes

You just don't get it man! You're either born with a static or you're screwed over and be forced to go through the pug wheel without ever being able to form connections! Those with statics won the genetic lottery, just like the jedis and their midichloroforms or whatever!

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I laughed harder than I should have. xD

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

I queued for T13 in solo DF, just for laughs, and boy did it not disappoint. Composition was 2 warriors, 2 scholars and 4 monks. No joke.

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Look on the bright side, at least damage mitigation for the big hits would have been tremendous.

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Originally Posted by Whiston

Look on the bright side, at least damage mitigation for the big hits would have been tremendous.

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If only four dragon kicks would stack! Glorious.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

You just don't get it man! You're either born with a static or you're screwed over and be forced to go through the pug wheel without ever being able to form connections! Those with statics won the genetic lottery, just like the jedis and their midichloroforms or whatever!

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The coil is strong with this one.

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Originally Posted by Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn

The coil is strong with this one.

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May the Echo be with you.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

There weren't any nerfs, unless you count the 3rd Shadow not spawning anymore as a nerf (I guess MNK loses stacks on the transition, but that was usually how it went anyway).

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

There was only one mechanical change, and I actually like that change. My group's been having to hold back on pushing the second gigaflare for awhile now because of the third add spawning regardless. Tethered gigaflare = good times!

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Apologies to the both of you, I should have been a bit more clearer. I was replying to a post that was posted before the patch notes went live, and we were still discussing about possible nerfs to mechanics. They seem to be implying that clicking off the Echo removes all mechanic nerfs, which is false. Clicking the Echo off does not restore the mechanics to their pre-nerf state as seen in SCoB. As much as I like the pre-nerf SCoB, it would be horrible in the DF with or without the Echo. o:

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Apologies to the both of you, I should have been a bit more clearer. I was replying to a post that was posted before the patch notes went live, and we were still discussing about possible nerfs to mechanics. They seem to be implying that clicking off the Echo removes all mechanic nerfs, which is false. Clicking the Echo off does not restore the mechanics to their pre-nerf state as seen in SCoB. As much as I like the pre-nerf SCoB, it would be horrible in the DF with or without the Echo. o:

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We talking about FCoB not SCoB. In Final coil clicking off echo does undo all nerfs because they didn't change anything else.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

We talking about FCoB not SCoB. In Final coil clicking off echo does undo all nerfs because they didn't change anything else.

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And as far as I'm concerned, it speaks volumes thus far that they didn't feel the need to bring on mechanical nerfs. Considering what happened to SCoB, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see something next month potentially, now that it's open in DF.

I suspect it's going to be T10 and T12 that get hit, maybe one potential nerf that could be done to T11 without outright breaking it as a fight. But I really don't see how they can ease the mechanics of any of the fights without outright destroying any challenge they may pose.

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Originally Posted by Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn

I suspect it's going to be T10 and T12 that get hit, maybe one potential nerf that could be done to T11 without outright breaking it as a fight. But I really don't see how they can ease the mechanics of any of the fights without outright destroying any challenge they may pose.

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Why would 10 and 12 get hit? If anything, 11 is the most likely to get hit because of the sphere/cube reductions since there's no guarantee with DF that you'd get a mix of caster/physical (even though it's not 100% needed).

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Originally Posted by Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn

And as far as I'm concerned, it speaks volumes thus far that they didn't feel the need to bring on mechanical nerfs. Considering what happened to SCoB, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see something next month potentially, now that it's open in DF.

I suspect it's going to be T10 and T12 that get hit, maybe one potential nerf that could be done to T11 without outright breaking it as a fight. But I really don't see how they can ease the mechanics of any of the fights without outright destroying any challenge they may pose.

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SCoB fights were designed in a way that no amount of echo or overgearing would make the fight easier because it was so mechanics oriented. Doing more dps, having more hp buffer, etc etc does not help deal with blighted or shriek or all of that.

FCoB fights are designed that it helps in some way when you upgrade your gear or echo increase.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Why would 10 and 12 get hit? If anything, 11 is the most likely to get hit because of the sphere/cube reductions since there's no guarantee with DF that you'd get a mix of caster/physical (even though it's not 100% needed).

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I'm hoping they don't. But yes, yours is actually the single most likely nerf to one of the turns, now that I think on it.

As for the others, it's based on what happened to Second Coil. Blighted Bouquet for instance used to straight up destroy you for doing it wrong, now most everyone who's topped off can power through it if they make a mistake. The Coil was made significantly more forgiving, and any nerfs brought up on FCoB will likely be similar, designed to be more forgiving. My guess is some things that caused stacks to accrue may be looking at some time on the chopping block.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

SCoB fights were designed in a way that no amount of echo or overgearing would make the fight easier because it was so mechanics oriented. Doing more dps, having more hp buffer, etc etc does not help deal with blighted or shriek or all of that.

FCoB fights are designed that it helps in some way when you upgrade your gear or echo increase.

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And yes, I realize this, FCoB is designed on the whole to punish you for poor play in a way that you can recover from (unless you've messed up a lot).

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Originally Posted by Zumi

We talking about FCoB not SCoB. In Final coil clicking off echo does undo all nerfs because they didn't change anything else.

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I get the feeling that you're not actually reading the post. SCoB was used just as an example. What I said was more to an 'if FCoB were to receive nerfs to the mechanics'. The topic is still up to debate because there is a slight chance that SE might potentially adjust the fights in future patches.

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Originally Posted by Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn

My guess is some things that caused stacks to accrue may be looking at some time on the chopping block.

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Oh, I see. You're right about those; I wouldn't be surprised if those were touched, but I would also disagree if they were changed. As it is, the stack mechanics only punish severe mistakes so removing them would basically eliminate any threat of failure short of enrage.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Oh, I see. You're right about those; I wouldn't be surprised if those were touched, but I would also disagree if they were changed. As it is, the stack mechanics only punish severe mistakes so removing them would basically eliminate any threat of failure short of enrage.

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Yeah, I wouldn't agree with it much myself. I feel like those are just there to encourage good play, but I suspect that's what people are going to get bent out of shape about most of all on.

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Originally Posted by Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn

And yes, I realize this, FCoB is designed on the whole to punish you for poor play in a way that you can recover from (unless you've messed up a lot).

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I feel its more on the "You need to know how to play your class well" versus "you need to play the mechanics well". Having weakness on T13 is still a major setback, and BoD is a deadweight with how much damage is going out. I was more on that the mechanics are done in a way that gear/echo would help, like having more hp buffer for the megaflares.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Surviving 2 stacks of Flare Star is only really an issue when someone is weakened or isn't topped off.

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Not always. Sometimes the God of RNG is angry. So it happened, I (Healer) had 2 stacks and got hit by 6,8k.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

Not always. Sometimes the God of RNG is angry. So it happened, I (Healer) had 2 stacks and got hit by 6,8k.

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Same...without Stoneskin and Adlo,my Blm got hit by 6.7k ...