the new trial is too hard

I liked the trial a lot. It really makes DF groups work together. We had wipe twice on the boss, but on our third time we got it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynlar

Initial impression of this fight: I really, really don't like it. If it doesn't get toned down a notch (which I imagine it eventually will be), I can easily see a lot of people not even making it to Heavensward.

Threads like this one popping up don't surprise me one bit. Nor do all the responses touting how easy it is once you know how to do it (wow, so pretty much like everything else in the game)

---

The only way people won't make it through the trial is if they don't know what they're doing, meaning not listening to people or people not explaining the fight. Fix those problems, and anybody can get through this. If they still can't, I'm sorry, they may not have the skill necessary to handle what is coming up in Heavensward (which SE admitted is going to be harder).

Quote:

---

If its reeally a one hit KO, You probably have under i90 gear... fix it.

---

Nope, i120 and up. I'm still taking 5-6k damage hits in there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alpal

I took today off work to try and have fun and experience the ending to the awesome story and ive been stuck trying to beat this for 4 hours now like seriously why would they make the main story impossible to beat

anyways I just want se to know I probably wont ever be able to beat this cuz I don't have much time to play during the week and now ill never be able to play the expansion

---

Definitely not impossible. I had it beat, in the Duty Finder, within the time given.

It requires team work and coordination, something which is greatly needed in the game because players are just too used to being able to wing it and not work nicely together. Once everyone knows there role, it is a very simple fight. It's a good challenge (and there's certainly no RNG at all, outside of the RNG of the players you get).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynlar

Nope, i120 and up. I'm still taking 5-6k damage hits in there.

---

This is roughly the damage you take if you get trampled on by Vishap. Don't go under his feet. Also, don't stand near a cannon when it's about to explode. It, too, deals about 5k damage to anyone near it. Add special attacks might also do a fair chunk (like the big Tutle Stomp thing). These attacks can and should be stunned by cannons where possible. If adds are being tanked correctly, they should be in good range of cannons at all times for this reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynlar

Nope, i120 and up. I'm still taking 5-6k damage hits in there.

---

Maybe watch out for the dragon's feet?

What's so hard about tanks bringing mobs under the boss and blasting with cannons. This fight is all about the Dps doing something other then mindless spam on the boss.
I did it in DF in two wipes with 6 ppl that was their first time also. If you do the mechanics you will win.

It's not too hard. Finding 7 people who can handle basic game play is the hard part. Like Odin. Easy fight, but a lot of people just aren't good, they don't get it and don't bother to try to.

This trial is not too hard. Takes a little coordination. We need more content like this that is not faceroll. Thanks SE!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuel81

This trial is not too hard. Takes a little coordination. We need more content like this that is not faceroll. Thanks SE!

---

I would actually like to see a fight like this in hard content like raids. A lot of coordination that does not simply revolve around dodging things, heavy DPS checks, and one-shot mechanics.

I'm on break at work on mobile so typos inc.if they tone this down this will be a shame. you all complain things aren't hard enough, complain when they are. if you dont plan on communicating with people then eh, good luck in coil or whatever else. it's only been a day anyways, after a few days people will learn it better. I'm going to over here laughing because people purchased a game they can't continue over one trial that TELLS you what to do in the phases. you have guides now and people on this forum aiding you. o-o i mean seriously, it's not hard, it's the hard-headed people but as another said we need a retry option because after about wipe 2 people started to get it together. have a melee dps use 3rd lb asap. you'll have time for another 1 lb maybe.

I dont really like putting DPS on cannons. Both times I've cleared it,w e had 1 tank and 1 healer on cannons. Most tanks I've seen can grab everythign and pull it to the main boss. If anyone else does get aggro, they just pull it to the tank just fine. Sure, an extra tank will make the MT's job easier, but it's also slower and more likely to fail. With all DPS out DPSing, we've kill the main boss right after he broke the final ward.

The trial itself isn't hard, the problem is the players that refuse to communicate or coordinate. The mechanics require the majority of the party to have assigned roles with the cannons, chains and dragon-killer. If players stay silent the whole time and refuse to listen to instructions they will not win... unfortunately up until now the DF has taught a lot of players to do just that.

I have not tried this yet but the OP has made my day. I think that is great news. Take some ownership and give some instructions, after trying it so much he should understand the mechanics by now. If he does that when he is finally victorious he will have a sense of satisfaction he has not had before. Being the reason a group succeeds doing something new and challenging is more rewarding than just progressing the story by going from point A to point B.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alberel

The trial itself isn't hard, the problem is the players that refuse to communicate or coordinate. The mechanics require the majority of the party to have assigned roles with the cannons, chains and dragon-killer. If players stay silent the whole time and refuse to listen to instructions they will not win... unfortunately up until now the DF has taught a lot of players to do just that.

---

Pretty much what Alberel said. Mmos in general lack fights that take group coordination and communication. SE give us more of this type of content. We want fights that require group effort. Not dodge this, dodge that=win.

The problem with this fight is that you only get 3-4 attempts per duty roulette timer, if you fail to fix problems its back to 100% square one with noone knowing anything.

I am with people on the timer issue. Was it the Praetorium I think, that had its timer extended on an early patch for a similar reason?

Also, a method to restart, say 6 characters (To prevent trolls) talking to an npc at the start of the bridge to reset maybe?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Haibel

What's so hard about tanks bringing mobs under the boss and blasting with cannons. This fight is all about the Dps doing something other then mindless spam on the boss.
I did it in DF in two wipes with 6 ppl that was their first time also. If you do the mechanics you will win.

---

But the best way to do the fight is to have all 4 DPS on the boss, one of them will be on Dragonkiller duty but the other 3 should never stop hitting him.
1 tank and 1 healer should be on cannon/snare duty since you don't need them both to be tanking/healing. Leaving the DPS to wreck face.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynlar

Beats the hell out of me, but usually by the time we get to the end the adds are overwhelming in number, usually just killing people over and over again that try to get close, and Vishap isn't even close to being dead.

---

You should not even be near Vishap, let alone the adds. Only the tanks (or even just 1 tank) need to be by Vishap, he can catch all the adds as they come for the healer, if the healer is properly positioned.

Vishap&Adds&Tank-----Healer------DPS&Cannons

That's all you need to do. AOE? What AOE? Adds overwhelm your tank because you're not using the cannons to take them out. Cannons deal 2000 AOE damage per shot. It's far stronger than any DPS is capable of in the game now.

On the run that I cleared it as healer, we had exactly that formation I noted above. I only needed to heal 2 people: regen on the tank and maybe one or two Cures, and another one being a BRD who refuse to stay on the cannons and get hit by adds AOEs as you mention.

The fight doesn't need to be toned down. You're just doing it wrong. What you're asking for, is to break the fight so you can complete the trial using your wrong methods. It's like asking for the last boss in Tamtara (normal) to not go invincible when Imps are up because you don't want to kill the Imps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghasto

But the best way to do the fight is to have all 4 DPS on the boss, one of them will be on Dragonkiller duty but the other 3 should never stop hitting him.
1 tank and 1 healer should be on cannon/snare duty since you don't need them both to be tanking/healing. Leaving the DPS to wreck face.

---

DPS whacking on the boss behind the boss means tanks have to move around collecting adds. Extra healing pressure with DPS who can't avoid AOE or who are so trigger happy they just have to put AOE on the adds (hey look at my meter I top the charts!) Extra healing means extra enmity so tanks have to spend extra resources maintaining aggro...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zfz

You should not even be near Vishap, let alone the adds. Only the tanks (or even just 1 tank) need to be by Vishap, he can catch all the adds as they come for the healer, if the healer is properly positioned.

Vishap&Adds&Tank-----Healer------DPS&Cannons

That's all you need to do. AOE? What AOE? Adds overwhelm your tank because you're not using the cannons to take them out. Cannons deal 2000 AOE damage per shot. It's far stronger than any DPS is capable of in the game now.

On the run that I cleared it as healer, we had exactly that formation I noted above. I only needed to heal 2 people: regen on the tank and maybe one or two Cures, and another one being a BRD who refuse to stay on the cannons and get hit by adds AOEs as you mention.

The fight doesn't need to be toned down. You're just doing it wrong. What you're asking for, is to break the fight so you can complete the trial using your wrong methods. It's like asking for the last boss in Tamtara (normal) to not go invincible when Imps are up because you don't want to kill the Imps.

---

As a DPS you still need to DPS Vishap himself some. If you do just the mechanics alone it only takes him down to 20% I believe. At least 20% of the boss needs to be DPS'ed by normal means. Or at least that is what I saw. All you have to do though is just be behind him. Will not get hit by the feet. If you have to do a positional, just wait till his foot is down then do it.

Quote:

---

DPS whacking on the boss behind the boss means tanks have to move around collecting adds. Extra healing pressure with DPS who can't avoid AOE or who are so trigger happy they just have to put AOE on the adds (hey look at my meter I top the charts!) Extra healing means extra enmity so tanks have to spend extra resources maintaining aggro...

---

You talk as though anything in this fight hurts, healing pressure? what healing pressure?
As a melee DPS you just stay under Vishap, ranged can be underneath or way off to the side, doesn't matter. Do the fight like I described and you'll kill him before the 3rd Dragonkiller is in range.

Yeah it's not that bad once you figure out what to do. A lot of people had no idea what they were doing or giving out bad info(it's a new fight so its expected), so the fight can seem harder than it really is. Like people saying all dps should be on cannons etc

As many have said, its ONLY hard because people expect they can zerg it without batting an eye at mechanics.

The thing I find the most funny about the reaction to this is that this is pretty much exactly what people have been asking for on the forums.
They have been asking for fights to not be "boring and brain-dead easy tank and spanks" and that they wanted more unique and interesting mechanics. So SE makes this and does something different and then people complain about it being different and too hard because its not a tank and spank.

No matter what is done, even if it is giving people what they say they want, people will complain about it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

My conclusion, a lot of people don't actually know what they really want or are asking for because they don't think it through and then just end up complaing since they have put themselves in a Catch-22 where they never get what they want because they don't know what they want and if they do actually get what they want it wasn't what they said they wanted and rage ensues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

At least 20% of the boss needs to be DPS'ed by normal means.

---

That makes sense as at any given time only 2 cannons can reach the boss. So the best is probably for melee to stay on the boss, use healing enmity to draw adds towards the tank for cannons to take out. One other tank and healer take on the ballista mechanic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghasto

You talk as though anything in this fight hurts, healing pressure? what healing pressure?

---

You're assuming the DPS are competent. My (limited) experience failing for 2 hours straight is that they can't be bothered to dodge the boss's feet and keep needing heals. If they are competent, then sure, that's the fastest way. Also when you have two less competent tanks, you can't expect either to grab all the adds properly, etc.

In the end it all depends on the individuals. And most importantly like Velhart said, we need to have some DPS on the boss anyway so my strategy is moot.

My mistake was most probably that there was 2 good melee behind the boss who were too far away for me to see their nameplates, so I confused them with the NPCs.

This fight was so super hard. It took me and DF group 3 TRIES TO BEAT IT!!! This is unacceptable and way to difficult for casuals!! I was forced to run up a tower 3 separate times to fire a cannon which is stupid because i should've just had to stand there and spam buttons but then die anyway because i play dragoon.

The trial is not too hard.

People are just too frickin impatient. They abandon duty after one failed attempt.

That said, there are some things about the trial itself that are annoying, that I think SE could adjust without "nerfing" it in any way:

- AOE target of the dragon boss is too small. Yeah yeah I get it, you can't reach his neck and he'll gladly step on you if you get too close to his feet, but for every other boss of this monstrous a size, the targetable area has extended to the feet. For something so frickin enormous the target should include his thighs and shoulders too, especially if you're hitting him with AOEs or canons.
- The timing of the first Dragon Killer isn't as clearly indicated as the second two. On the attempt I did where we got it to 9%, we missed that first Dragon Killer because our sharpshooter didn't get the NPC message to shoot (or missed it.) For the ones with the snares, "big rectangle!" is a nice indication, but for the first one, it really takes someone on the ground shouting "hey he's done two stomps in a row, it's probably time to shoot him." NPC should shout "FIRE ZE KILLER" or somesuch in a way that it can't be missed.
- On that note, NPC message text is too small. This has never been an issue before for me, but there's something about the colors of the text that makes it just kind of melt into the background and the big fat dragon.

I really wish the penalty for leaving mid duty finder on this fight was greatly increased. We had two tanks who got it from their trials roulette, after some of us had been queued for 20 minutes, who took one look at where they landed and said "AW HELL NAH" and left the duty, eating the 30 minute penalty. Can't blame them, that 30 minutes of re-wait would be better than 60 minutes of equipment damage. It was after that I started doing this fight on my iLvl 107 tank instead of my 122 bard, because the tanking is not that hard and it' a critically short role.

The fight is too hard... Only if people dont know what there doing/ dont listen its a pretty easy fight not everything can be "face roll easy" once you understand your roll in the fight its a cake walk

I hope SE gives us a Chains of Promethia 6-4 fight equivalent in Heavensward. Watching 90% of the game rage quit would be pretty damn funny to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raeletta

Also, a method to restart, say 6 characters (To prevent trolls) talking to an npc at the start of the bridge to reset maybe?

---

Something like this would be nice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kirk

The fight is too hard... Only if people dont know what there doing/ dont listen its a pretty easy fight not everything can be "face roll easy" once you understand your roll in the fight its a cake walk

---

When the towers are missing its a wipe, main damage is coming from them - try it with cannons alone (good luck!)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aistaraina

I hope SE gives us a Chains of Promethia 6-4 fight equivalent in Heavensward. Watching 90% of the game rage quit would be pretty damn funny to me.

---

Hell, even CoP 2-5 was hard enough. You know things are bad when a common strategy involves most of the party dying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynlar

Initial impression of this fight: I really, really don't like it. If it doesn't get toned down a notch (which I imagine it eventually will be), I can easily see a lot of people not even making it to Heavensward.

Threads like this one popping up don't surprise me one bit. Nor do all the responses touting how easy it is once you know how to do it (wow, so pretty much like everything else in the game)

---

I just don't understand this logic at all. So quick to quit? This Steps of Faith Trial is literally trivial the second you walk into it. My first attempt we quickly realized that it was a Stone Vigil type fight. (I did this fight in DF 2 hours after it launched) We downed it after our second wipe. Once we figured out the insanely easy mechanics we ensured the rest of the group knew what to do. By our third attempt we killed the boss with our eyes nearly shut. It really is that easy. Its all about team work and communication. I don't understand why you people can't communicate. Leave your feelings at the door and figure it out.

Isnt that bad, won on third try. 1. step take time and tell ppl what to do!!! no reason to rush! Also expect 2-3 try to get mechanics. 2. step send weak dps on cannons!!! strong dps on boss. We had 1 tank gather adds (well he was very well gear`d so no issue to hold adds) 3. step do the mechanis!!! every tower have to hit (so far I would say the tower DONT hit adds) 4. step when boss hits the blue "wall" focus on boss and ignore adds!!! No reason to fight big adds if a tank can hold it. AND do not raise!!!! its waste of time. when u die just return. No weak status!

Yesterday (I recorded this but I'm not sure if I will care to upload it) it took two tries. The first try we were down to about 1% before it failed, so it was just a matter of better coordination.

The second try I got stepped on by the dragon like 3 times because everyone was running around and people kept running out of healing range. Fortunately this wasn't a "healer dies, party wipes" type of Trial.

The world and gaming is coming to a very bad place where people just want things handed to them and no one wants to put in the hard work and time to accomplish things. Suck it up #getgood. This isn't even difficult at all I wish they actually made challenging fights in this game.

After finally beating the Steps of Faith trial yesterday, I still stand by my impression that the trial itself isn't difficult. It's just gimmicky as hell, requires the party to take the time to communicate a strategy and the party to not consist of brain dead gold fish.

The strategy used by the group I was in was as follows:

1. 2 dps assigned to cannons & snares
2. Myself and another Monk were assigned to go ham on Vishap & LB
3. 1 healer assigned to Dragon Killer
4. 1 healer assigned as primary heals
5. Tanks assigned to adds (& boss)

We beat the trial with very few Vishaps. ^3^

Step 1: Communicate & assign roles
Step 2: Not be brain dead & follow assigned role
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

Well of COURSE this trial is hard! The dragons aren't your enemies! Your party is! :D

Not even hard... you need to communicate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noshpan

Step 1: Communicate & assign roles
Step 2: Not be brain dead & follow assigned role
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

---

You mean you can't 1-2-3 your way through a piece of content? I'm shocked. This game really needs more fights that require some semblance of skill/using your brain, outside of FCoB.

Yoshida and his team has been working really hard to make the community closer, so he made this fight as a teamwork 101 but most of the people in duty finder are unbendable me my myself type of guys and makes the whole thing a complete nightmare.

I finished this duty 5 times yesterday helping friends and in DF and it just needs teamwork, i can bet that 3.0 will have more teamwork mechanics so people who only think about being the best by themselves are gonna have a really hard time.