Required rank on all gear

If you're going to wear high ranked gear 15 ranks or more below the optimal, hell... could even say 8-10 ranks below, you might as well just be naked. You are the noob who worries more about looking awesome than about full stat benefits.

If you're technically able to wear R50 gear at R1, there is a problem with that. That gives players (and I'm using this term just because I cannot figure out a word for you people) less reason to actually play the game as it's intended to be played when all you're worrying about is the look of your character. Now, to get the look you'll have to level up and not treat the game like it's a freakin chat room with HD graphics.

This helps out so many issues that some of you are too blindly selfish to see. Now DoH classes can actually make cash to support their grinding and progression though their ranks. This is on top of the list on why this change is great. Secondly, we can easily identify the players who actually put in work with their ranks. I know many people who just stand around town, get gil from god knows where because I never see them do a thing to earn it, and show off what they acquired on their low ranked character. It's rather obnoxious.

If you are against this system for your own selfish reasons and refuse to see the problems with letting anyone wear basically anything craftable then you're in the wrong mindset. It's not about you and your feelings getting hurt because something materialistic was taken away from you. It's something much more than that and for the better. Get over it.

Quote:

---

AKA No more Barbie Dress Up!!!!

---

Exactly. That's what Second Life is for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly

Ok a bit off topic but I did something like this in XI. Gear was so expensive then that one day I got a Pyro robe from a chest drop while in a party. I had nothing else to wear, because I couldn't wear much else (that wasn't expensive or R/E and unobtainable alone)I wore this into my 60's as a red mage.

People are going to do this regardless of a system with optimal/restricted gear because it revolves almost exclusively around the economy and ease of gaining new gear.

Optimal Rank system had such potential! To have a "Full set" bonus ontop of the already 'optimal' rank, that would have been something to see! Especially with the Harlequin set, imagine the bonus on that, it could easily outstrip crafted gear while still being suitable to interchange with craftables.

If they restrict this too to class like I suspect they will I'll be severely disappointed with yet another 'easy way out' tactic by team Yoshida. It's lazy, and like others have said before it has very little if at all any benefit in the long run.
Along with what I've said before about switching classes and blinking nude to repair an item, and having to put all your gear on again with either macro or by hand, how stupid is that? I can stand it now because for lancer at least it's only 2 items, hand and body, which are easily replaced. But still, if it were for every single item I'd probably go insane.

---

Granted. All that's really changing is which direction you go sub-optimal in. As it stands, everyone grabs mid-rank gear for their low classes and lives with the fact that they don't get full stats. After the changes, it'll be people running around in lowbie gear for longer. Functionally, it's not much different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naylia

I guess I'll just play R1-30 on any new classes naked cause this is going to be too much of a pain to deal with otherwise.

---

That's what I was thinking. We'll probably start seeing a lot of people running around in their underwear again.

Does Square Enix historically always go so completely overboard with changes?

This is how I now imagine many of their meetings:
Person A: We should probably look at revising this. Some people are complaining on the forums.
Person Y: Just get rid of it.

LOOOOOOL Jesus.
You think so?
Well golly Brucey, then why ever for are they changing the recipes?!

That argument has so many holes it's ridiculous particularly with recipe changes coming in the NEXT PATCH.
If they may as well be naked, boost the penalties.
Or you know, let people do what they want to do. This game was created on the premiss of "play how you like!" not "This is fast becoming XI-2!"
I don't see how we're being 'selfish' as gear is becoming steadily easier to make especially lower leveled gear.


The difference between Optimal rank and Required rank is this:
One system allows you to wear gear from different classes/ranks, the other does not.

And I'm willing to bet optimal class will vanish shortly after.

Quote:

---

And I'm willing to bet optimal class will vanish shortly after.

---

As it should

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

As it should

---

Then immediately after we need Scorpion Harnesses and elemental staves.
If they're not in the same patch I'm going to rage quit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly

LOOOOOOL Jesus.
You think so?
Well golly Brucey, then why ever for are they changing the recipes?!

That argument has so many holes it's ridiculous particularly with recipe changes coming in the NEXT PATCH.
If they may as well be naked, boost the penalties.
Or you know, let people do what they want to do. This game was created on the premiss of "play how you like!" not "This is fast becoming XI-2!"
I don't see how we're being 'selfish' as gear is becoming steadily easier to make especially lower leveled gear.


The difference between Optimal rank and Required rank is this:
One system allows you to wear gear from different classes/ranks, the other does not.

And I'm willing to bet optimal class will vanish shortly after.

---

It'll be the next Dev Post most likely :/

It really is sad that now if we change class for a few minutes we'll be forced to be completely naked. Or if were going back and forth between crafting classes we'll have to carry tons of equipment.

Might as well Restrict us to changing class in a Mog house with saved outfit loadouts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly

Then immediately after we need Scorpion Harnesses and elemental staves.
If they're not in the same patch I'm going to rage quit.

---

You wont be missed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

If you're going to wear high ranked gear 15 ranks or more below the optimal, hell... could even say 8-10 ranks below, you might as well just be naked. You are the noob who worries more about looking awesome than about full stat benefits.

---

That's wrong in so many different ways. Go start a new character as any DoW class. I guarantee you that all of their weapons will have almost identical stats at rank 1. The same is true of armor, I'm certain. The fact is, the way it's set up now, rank 50 gear is as good or better than actual optimal rank gear in a number of cases, and that doesn't even take into account the stats on the higher rank gear such as +STR and +DEX.

Should it be that way? No, but there are, I feel, better solutions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

You wont be missed

---

I'm pretty sure we can agree we're glad we're not on the same server. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly

LOOOOOOL Jesus.
You think so?
Well golly Brucey, then why ever for are they changing the recipes?!

That argument has so many holes it's ridiculous particularly with recipe changes coming in the NEXT PATCH.

---

Clearly they are changing the recipes for the obvious reasons. A) Make progression less material heavy and friendly to new players who want to take up a craft and, B) Flush out the optimal rank gear system. I don't understand what you're trying to combat in my statement. Maybe reread it?

It wouldn't matter if you were. You can easily be ignored

Oh You're on Besaid...that explains a lot.

Do people seriously use gear that isn't optimal for their class? The penalties are far harsher for that than wearing things below rank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estellios

Do people seriously use gear that isn't optimal for their class? The penalties are far harsher for that than wearing things below rank.

---

Some do (Rarely) Most people use the current system as a way to keep their inventory light.

IE.

A Level 50 Lancer doesn't have to regear everything hes wearing just because he switched to conjurer to raise a friend, or to carpenter to repair someones armor.

Some people have Decency and prefer not to walk around naked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

That's wrong in so many different ways. Go start a new character as any DoW class. I guarantee you that all of their weapons will have almost identical stats at rank 1. The same is true of armor, I'm certain. The fact is, the way it's set up now, rank 50 gear is as good or better than actual optimal rank gear in a number of cases, and that doesn't even take into account the stats on the higher rank gear such as +STR and +DEX.

Should it be that way? No, but there are, I feel, better solutions.

---

Let me clarify, I was being an A-Hole with that comment. I didn't mean it literally as in the stats naked would equal to be the same as if you were wearing gear painfully below optimal. Although, now on the subject, it certainly isn't that huge of a difference between the two. Hell, players were even able to complete darkhold wearing bikinis.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

Clearly they are changing the recipes for the obvious reasons. A) Make progression less material heavy and friendly to new players who want to take up a craft and, B) Flush out the optimal rank gear system. I don't understand what you're trying to combat in my statement. Maybe reread it?

---

Pretty sure some of the lower ranked recipe changes were to make gear more obtainable for lowered ranks, such as cotton gear. With the parts missing, it's easier to make your own or to sell a ton of them cheaply for lower ranked DoW/M.

I'm almost certain that, due to Yoshida's large crafting post, those changes were for lower ranked recipes. Not all of them.

So the argument that required rank is exclusively hurting crafters is a load of BS. Of course you'd naturally rather go for mid-rank items, but having a required rank isn't going to automatically make everyone go out and buy r12 shirts. Although it might if there are going to be EXP changes in the near future.
Although It'd probably have people going nude until they were able to equip mid-rank items. Which others have admitted they'd do.

Usually I'm pretty open-minded about the changes made to the game. I can usually see where it might be a good thing and not nearly as bad as everyone thinks. Even though I can't see that with this change, I'll try to keep faith that it's for the best. They are professional game devs after all, it's kind of their job to consider all the parameters involved with this kind of thing.

The crafting argument is pretty moot though. The reason low-rank gear isn't available on the market wards is more about the obnoxious requirements on a lot of the gear. Many things require the crafter to be higher level, many things require parts of higher levels and many things simply aren't worth the cost of making. Optimal rank penalties not being harsh enough is partly to blame but I feel the current crafting system is a bit more guilty. Once the low-rank gear is easier and cheaper to make, I would imagine you'll see a lot more people selling it. Optimal rank could have been enforced and caused the same effect as required rank on the market wards side of things.

I hate to see another unique system go but such is MMO development.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

Let me clarify, I was being an A-Hole with that comment. I didn't mean it literally as in the stats naked would equal to be the same as if you were wearing gear painfully below optimal. Although, now on the subject, it certainly isn't that huge of a difference between the two. Hell, players were even able to complete darkhold wearing bikinis.

---

Except that I'm fully confident a rank one PGL would get the same stats from a Jade Hora as from a Weathered Hora. I want to say around rank seven, the Jade Hora would actually be better. Literally the only downside to wearing gear above your rank at the moment is repair costs.

And yes, I know stats are broken. It isn't relevant to the discussion, though.

I'm starting to wonder.

If I take all the systems that actually worked but just needed minor tweaks to be progressive but have been removed from XIV or invalidated by other updates, and made my own game using them. Would SE have grounds for copywrite infringement when their own display of the system no longer reflects what it was when I copied it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

You wont be missed

---

Even though I'm on your side of this topic, I hate this comment.

Maybe they won't be missed by you, but you don't know if they're a large asset to their linkshell or something. Chances are there will be a few people that misses each person that quits.

I believe the same thing Arcell. I wanted to make a low level doublet for my -smiths so i could work on ranking them up and shied away once i saw how much crafting i actually had to do.

New players will get a sense of satisfaction making their own gear and gear for others and once these crafting changes take place there shouldn't be much worry about supply. I myself am already planning to make a few sets of low level gear to sell after the patch.

If your a crafter you'd be dumb not to overload your inventory on every account you can make and every retainer you can create with optimal gear that you can resell later. Shit will sell like hotcakes once the game gets released on PS3.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

Even though I'm on your side of this topic, I hate this comment.

Maybe they won't be missed by you, but you don't know if they're a large asset to their linkshell or something. Chances are there will be a few people that misses each person that quits.

---

I'm sorry, I just dont see how anyone can rage quit over this

I think you guys are overselling that "get rich quick" scheme with optimal rank gear. They are still going to be available for a while and it will be more than enough time for the required rank stuff to become available and in good enough supply because it will be 10000x easier to make. People don't like buying ridiculously overpriced gear now, they won't do it later just because it's Optimal rank, there will be available options.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcell

Usually I'm pretty open-minded about the changes made to the game. I can usually see where it might be a good thing and not nearly as bad as everyone thinks. Even though I can't see that with this change, I'll try to keep faith that it's for the best. They are professional game devs after all, it's kind of their job to consider all the parameters involved with this kind of thing.

The crafting argument is pretty moot though. The reason low-rank gear isn't available on the market wards is more about the obnoxious requirements on a lot of the gear. Many things require the crafter to be higher level, many things require parts of higher levels and many things simply aren't worth the cost of making. Optimal rank penalties not being harsh enough is partly to blame but I feel the current crafting system is a bit more guilty. Once the low-rank gear is easier and cheaper to make, I would imagine you'll see a lot more people selling it. Optimal rank could have been enforced and caused the same effect as required rank on the market wards side of things.

I hate to see another unique system go but such is MMO development.

---

The problem I see with the choice is it sounds mainly very lazy, or the easiest. But that is a better way of wording the Crafter's side of the argument.

Optimal rank was always great, and had a lot of potential. Optimal was a full bonus, but they could have put less and harsher penalties on wearing gear out of your rank level. At least 3 ranks behind.

Say you had a ring that was perhaps, r37. At 37 you get the full benefits of wearing it, but at rank 35 you'd get 25% + a harsher penalty on damage for wearing it, and at 36 you get 50% of the benefits for wearing it, and a slightly less harsher penalty on the damage.


At the same time it encourages you to wear gear suited to your rank, but also allows a leeway in case you don't have something in that particular rank and allows you to save space.

And of course anything lower than that (for the example above of the 37 rank'd ring) would be extremely harsh on damage + perhaps droping EXP gained while wearing it for a small percentage, that grows with every un-tailored piece of equipment worn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

I'm sorry, I just dont see how anyone can rage quit over this

---

Perhaps it's more like a series of things involving the major upcoming changes and one more was one too many.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly

Pretty sure some of the lower ranked recipe changes were to make gear more obtainable for lowered ranks, such as cotton gear. With the parts missing, it's easier to make your own or to sell a ton of them cheaply for lower ranked DoW/M.

I'm almost certain that, due to Yoshida's large crafting post, those changes were for lower ranked recipes. Not all of them.

So the argument that required rank is exclusively hurting crafters is a load of BS. Of course you'd naturally rather go for mid-rank items, but having a required rank isn't going to automatically make everyone go out and buy r12 shirts. Although it might if there are going to be EXP changes in the near future.
Although It'd probably have people going nude until they were able to equip mid-rank items. Which others have admitted they'd do.

---

So, you think that when people rank a new class, they go straight for the optimal gear and not the gear that is 15-20 ranks above them? Like you pointed out, players have already admit to do that and keep doing that. It's a little extreme, but it's their choice to look like a failure. Oh and btw, recipes are changing for mid rank crafting too.

It's changed to lock players in their place of progression and give equipment for all level ranges a freakin' market. I don't understand why you're arguing me on this since our opinions are actually quite similar. Either your reading comprehension is off or you just do not have the capacity to articulate what you want to say by how you mean it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

I'm sorry, I just dont see how anyone can rage quit over this

---

Everyone has their own reasons. There was even one person who quit because of the rank > level / sp > exp terminology change. I'm sure in his head it was completely logical, but for the rest of us it seems like such a silly thing to quit over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cairdeas

this one still its no longer special to us.

---

"Us"?
When you say "us", do you mean everyone thinks the same way as you? Or did you just assume everyone liked the current optimal rank system?

pls don't assume, thx

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

Except that I'm fully confident a rank one PGL would get the same stats from a Jade Hora as from a Weathered Hora. I want to say around rank seven, the Jade Hora would actually be better. Literally the only downside to wearing gear above your rank at the moment is repair costs.

And yes, I know stats are broken. It isn't relevant to the discussion, though.

---

You're talking weapons which is a requirement for the class itself. So, the point you are making isn't really relevant to the discussion either. You can't ever go weaponless.

If they also go Required Class, then I would like to see a combination of:
a) R50 THM only
b) R50 THM CON only
or
c) R50 Disciples of Magic only

Of course I'm using Disciples of Magic as the example but some gear that adds PIE or MND is good for both, so if they restrict it, just leave the other Disciples out. Now I can see high +PIE gear go to THM only and I'm ok with that, as an incentive to play the class as it should be played, like a high +DEF for GLA as incentive for tanking.

Everyday a dev post comes out I am a little more confident the team knows what they want out of FFXIV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adol

"Us"?
When you say "us", do you mean everyone thinks the same way as you? Or did you just assume everyone liked the current optimal rank system?

pls don't assume, thx

---

I'm pretty sure Cairdeas figured you capable of realising they meant those of us are not terribly happy at the moment, not that everyone in this extremely controversial topic held the absolute same opinion as they, or you, do.

Their point is true. When I came to Final Fantasy XIV, I stayed because it had some really, really special ideas and elements amidst all the huge problems. Those special elements have, over time, been disappearing for me almost in step with the problems.

So yes, for those of us for whom this change is the last straw, Final Fantasy XIV just ceased to be special.

I've yet to determine for certain if I'm in that camp. I don't think I am. I still have my friends, and I still like the character creation engine, world, and story.

We'll see.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

Everyone has their own reasons. There was even one person who quit because of the rank > level / sp > exp terminology change. I'm sure in his head it was completely logical, but for the rest of us it seems like such a silly thing to quit over.

---

I have lots of things I'm upset about.

Jobs locked to Classes(In effect Weapons)
Rank/Skill > Level/Experience
Phasing out of Optimal Gear
The XP/SP curve getting shortened
All the Limitations and Restrictions being implemented on top of Systems sold to me as being Open and Free.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

So, you think that when people rank a new class, they go straight for the optimal gear and not the gear that is 15-20 ranks above them? Like you pointed out, players have already admit to do that and keep doing that. It's a little extreme, but it's their choice to look like a failure. Oh and btw, recipes are changing for mid rank crafting too.

---

Wait, they're a failure for wearing something with better stats? Damn! I've been going about this all backwards!

Cant wait for required class/job/levels to be introduced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adol

"Us"?
When you say "us", do you mean everyone thinks the same way as you? Or did you just assume everyone liked the current optimal rank system?

pls don't assume, thx

---

This is Zolom's reoccurring mistake. Being delusional and speaking like he has a direct line to SE the same as religious nuts do with God, and thinking his opinions or suggestions actually reflect the majority of the community. Meanwhile, most of these things are utterly preposterous to the average player.

I think the main failing of the "Optimal" rank system was the massive lack of visibillity of it's presense in the game.

It was there sure, but as far as many people were concerned the effect was so invisible that people were wearing vintage haubs on their rank 2 marauders. Personally I'm in favor of rank restrictions for gear gives lower level items more longevity and relevance even too the most hardcore players who still need it for lower level classes.

The best thing XI ever did for the low end item market was instigate lvl capped content. rank 30 gear had a healthy market for the promyvion missions and NM runs, no matter what level you were or what merits you had...if you wanted to rock the promies you had to check your "Leet" gear and grab some leather jerkins.

Lvl Synch dropped this on it's head some but the fact that your high end items were still far inferior to rank appropriate gear was the clincher. In XIV I can wear a weapon a few levels early and see better stats than the closest rank appropriate weapon...that should NEVER happen in my opinion.

Yup...if they wanted to incentivize wearing rank appropriate gear, then all they had to do was make sure that there was a stat/attribute price to be paid in exchange for greater flexibility. Instead, many high rank gears actually give better stats at the lower ranks than the rank appropriate gear with durability being the only trade off. Seems like fixing this would have been a good first step rather than going straight to Required Rank gear.

This bundled with horrible visibility into how gear affected your stats and attributes (STR ->ACC) made it so that you couldn't determine which gear was better without a log parser.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fensfield

I'm pretty sure Cairdeas figured you capable of realising they meant those of us are not terribly happy at the moment, not that everyone in this extremely controversial topic held the absolute same opinion as they, or you, do.

---

Indeed, it was an Assumed "Us" related to the topic mentioned inside the same comment which was omitted by the oh so Able Adol.


I'll Highlight all the Linked Parts.

Quote:

---

The reason we were playing THIS game was because it didn't have all those shitty restrictions all the OTHER games had. Turning this game into just like all the other games why play this one still its no longer special to us.

---

You see the "Assumed US" Is in referenced to all the other previously referenced "We"'s that Enjoy this game because of the lack of restrictions that other games have.

Making This Game just like Those games makes This game no longer special to the Assumed Us and We.

The Assumed "Us" and "We" thus reflect only on players who do play this game because it is different from the rest of the MMO's out there. Not Everyone.