I want an official response.

The MAJORITY of the player base plays the game to progress through the story and dungeons. A small minority is heavily into crafting and to an even smaller degree is the vanity crowd. SE will always cater to the majority as that is where the profit lies.

No one is forcing people to buy these items. People buy these items because they have the money to buy them and they want them. Quite honestly SE could expand the cash shop to include X amount of gil and items and I would be fine with that to.

Well being? How does a VIDEO GAME affect anyone's well being?! There are plenty of other games out there, y'know, although most of them have add-on features these days - even singleplayer games have DLC (some of them even have on-disc DLC that some say by all rights should be available for free). If you 're not willing to put up with it, you're not just down a game, you're down a hobby. Hell, if I refused to deal with every company I disagreed with, I'd probably starve to death. A few items of subjective quality in a niche-genre game is small potatoes compared to a lot of shit out there. And in this case I'm at least free to walk away if I ever change my mind.

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Zitat von Kuolema

The MAJORITY

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Again, your only argument is that we shouldn't care because other people don't.

"Why do you care that all those innocent people died? The majority doesn't care, it doesn't effect them, or their lives."

I know that this is taking it to an extreme, but it's the same type of principal.

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Zitat von Amused

Again, your only argument is that we shouldn't care because other people don't.

"Why do you care that all those innocent people died? The majority doesn't care, it doesn't effect them, or their lives."

I know that this is taking it to an extreme, but it's the same type of principal.

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Are you comparing digital minions and mounts to the death of innocent people?

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Zitat von Velhart

Are you comparing digital minions and mounts to the death of innocent people?

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Are you illiterate? Did you not read what I said right below it?

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Zitat von Amused

Are you illiterate? Did you not read what I said right below it?

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I did read below it, it doesn't make your statement any less offensive.

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Zitat von Amused

I don't understand why you (cash shop defenders) are accepting of Square-Enix taking advantage of you, and abusing you as a customer.

Why do you tolerate it? Why do you let them walk all over you? Why don't you stand up for yourselves?

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Because we aren't being taken advantage of or being abused. That is just the truth of it. Why is it you feel oppressed and mistreated?

It's funny how lots of people say "deal with it and if you don't like leave" or "leave! good riddance"....kinda like what SE defenders said all the time in 1.0.....it didn't end well.....

Any serious company will tell you how valuable and hard to get customer feedback is....and you don't keep good feedback while ignoring negative feedback.

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Zitat von Velhart

I did read below it, it doesn't make your statement any less offensive.

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Offensive? Literally how? It's not like I singled out some actual tragic incident.

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Zitat von Ilitsa

They are not content.

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Really now?

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Zitat von Amused

Again, your only argument is that we shouldn't care because other people don't.

"Why do you care that all those innocent people died? The majority doesn't care, it doesn't effect them, or their lives."

I know that this is taking it to an extreme, but it's the same type of principal.

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and we have reached godwins law everyone.

The cash shop is not the holocaust. they are not the same thing.

is it annoying and would I like to to go away? yes
Is the world as we know it ending? no

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Zitat von Amused

whatever this was

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Are you intentionally thick? I said if it became play to win, there's always the option to say "No, I'm not okay with this" and stop playing. If you feel like its unfair, than why would you play?

And yes, I put it in terms of "I" so let me translate because I understand reading comprehension is hard:

"If YOU look at a game and feel like it is predatory, then YOU HAVE EVERY OPTION TO GO "Oh, I (AS IN YOU) dont like this or paying this much money, I'm (AS IN YOU'RE) out" and stop playing.

Jeez I hope they have a potion at the cash shop to cure my OBVIOUS DEEP SEATED SELF CENTEREDNESS.

Also... "so self-absorbed you can't think about the well being of others?" Dude, this ain't life or death, its a game. If you're going to say I lack compassion than you certainly seem to lack perspective something fierce.

You are right I don't care about anyone else's enjoyment from this game. I play this game to relax from work and family obligations. If you are so offended by this revelation of my lack of caring for your plight then get over yourself. You are complaining about a game, if you can't see how silly that is then there is something wrong. You have free will to buy or not buy from the cash shop. You have the free will to pay or not pay for a subscription to FFXIV. Make a choice that you can live with and stop acting like a martyr because the MAJORITY of people really don't care.

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Zitat von OranKells

is it annoying and would I like to to go away? yes
Is the world as we know it ending? no

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I never said the world was ending. I explicitly stated that even I acknowledge that the example I used was extreme.

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Zitat von Saint_Angeles

Are you intentionally thick? I said if it became play to win, there's always the option to say "No, I'm not okay with this" and stop playing. If you feel like its unfair, than why would you play?

And yes, I put it in terms of "I" so let me translate because I understand reading comprehension is hard.

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I hope you realize that by shifting the focus away from specifically yourself, and redirecting it to me, in no way contradicts my original factual statement that you are only thinking of yourself.

Changing it from being in reference to you, and just pointing the finger at me is again showing that you're only thinking of how it effects you, and how you feel about it.

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Zitat von Kuolema

You are right I don't care about anyone else's enjoyment from this game. I play this game to relax from work and family obligations. If you are so offended by this revelation of my lack of caring for your plight then get over yourself. You are complaining about a game, if you can't see how silly that is then there is something wrong. You have free will to buy or not buy from the cash shop. You have the free will to pay or not pay for a subscription to FFXIV. Make a choice that you can live with and stop acting like a martyr because the MAJORITY of people really don't care.

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Thank you for only further reinforcing my argument.

And no, it's not just a game in this scenario. It's about a product we've invested ourselves in, and we're not being given everything we paid for.

Wonder for how long they're going to pretend they're not going F2P, until the expansion maybe.

and thats why we pay for it. its actually content.

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Zitat von OranKells

and thats why we pay for it. its actually content.

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Every single thing in the game is content. Even the text in your chat log.

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Zitat von Shake0615

You can't be serious. This has been discussed ad nauseum and you know there is a difference between an expansion pack and a cash shop that is designed to nickel and dime people who have already paid for a game. You know that your point is ridiculous.

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My point is how silly this argument has gotten. Yes I realize that there is a difference between the cash shop and an expansion I guess I wasn't clear in my sarcasm.

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Zitat von Amused

Does this mean that you would be OK if they sold you the expansion, but you had to pay extra for the new race and jobs?

I mean, they're optional. You don't need a new race. You don't need new jobs.

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I wouldn't care if they did that because I have the ability to choose to purchase them or not. Just like I and everyone else has the ability to choose to purchase the items on the cash shop.

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Zitat von Kuolema

My point is how silly this argument has gotten. Yes I realize that there is a difference between the cash shop and an expansion I guess I wasn't clear in my sarcasm.

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Poe's law at work I suppose lol

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Zitat von Amused

Every single thing in the game is content. Even the text in your chat log.

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.... no.

No it is not.

I just wonder all of you cash shop defenders, if it dosnt affect you why do you post in this thread anyway? You all dont care anyway about it? so why do you defend it so much?

I totally can understand Amused , because i feel the same.
Ive played EQ2 until they introduced a cash shop there, and now the game is F2P.
It would be a shame if FFXIV goes the same road.

I would like a comment about it too.
I want to know if SE is making enough money with our subs to fund the game and possibly other proejcts.
If so , then the cash shop is just here to milk us even more^^

Whats so hard about it SE? just tells us what the extra money u want to earn is used for?

I still don't understand how people are this delusional. YOU ALREADY PAID FOR THAT CASH SHOP CONTENT. WE ALL DID. THAT'S WHAT OUR SUB DOES. IT PAYS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF CONTENT. How the hell can people not just be okay with this, but support it?

Honestly? Its a slow day. I'm off work, I have some finals projects to complete for school, I'm just waiting for code to compile but I can't be playing video games. Thats too distracting.

this sort of futile meaningless debate with no actual consequences because no one here actually has power to effect the thing we are talking about is kinda fun, it also keeps be sharp for when I have to deal with disgruntled customers or my 10 year old nieces and nephews that I babysit.

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Zitat von Khemorex

Whats so hard about it SE? just tells us what the extra money u want to earn is used for?

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I just wish they were open about their subscriber numbers and stopped dancing around giving clear figures by using "adventurers", which is their codeword for accounts created. You know, just say how many active subs the game has like practically most MMOs do, especially WoW. Blizzard always publishes their figures regardless if they're down or up and theirs always fluctuate in the millions.

I'm surprised some people still believe the game isn't heading towards F2P after all these blatant signs. Sure if some people want to believe the game can pull a WoW and have both a sub and a cash shop, go ahead, but it's never actually happened in the history of the themepark MMO market aside from WoW, and another WoW clone like ARR certainly won't be the exception.

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Zitat von Khemorex

I just wonder all of you cash shop defenders, if it dosnt affect you why do you post in this thread anyway? You all dont care anyway about it? so why do you defend it so much?

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For me, it's not so much that I defend or support the cash shop, but that I'm just absolutely fucking fed up to the ears of EVERY thread, even ones that have NOTHING to do with the cash shop are getting turned into a cash shop argument by the anti-cash shop people. It's absolutely ridiculous and I oppose that sort of bullying mentality on principle.

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Zitat von Roris

I'm surprised some people still believe the game isn't heading towards F2P after all these blatant signs. Sure if some people want to believe the game can pull a WoW and have both a sub and a cash shop, go ahead, but it's never actually happened in the history of the themepark MMO market aside from WoW, and another WoW clone like ARR certainly won't be the exception.

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This just in, any MMO that doesn't have WoW numbers is doomed to be F2P.

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Zitat von Khemorex

I just wonder all of you cash shop defenders, if it dosnt affect you why do you post in this thread anyway? You all dont care anyway about it? so why do you defend it so much?

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It isn't exactly I like cash shops, I have a mind set of getting stuff in game and not my wallet. Its more of an argument that it will have no impact on how the game is in the long run like people in here think it will. If the cash shop stays or goes, it matters not to me. Its just more entertaining watch people going on thinking it is the end of the world because it is here.

Just going to leave this here.

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Zitat von Khemorex

I just wonder all of you cash shop defenders, if it dosnt affect you why do you post in this thread anyway? You all dont care anyway about it? so why do you defend it so much?

I totally can understand Amused , because i feel the same.
Ive played EQ2 until they introduced a cash shop there, and now the game is F2P.
It would be a shame if FFXIV goes the same road.

I would like a comment about it too.
I want to know if SE is making enough money with our subs to fund the game and possibly other proejcts.
If so , then the cash shop is just here to milk us even more^^

Whats so hard about it SE? just tells us what the extra money u want to earn is used for?

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I find it funny that people seem to think that SE is going to comment on this issue. SE will never come out and give you an answer. It's highly unlikely that SE will ever say where any money we give them goes to.

The whole anti cash shop group reminds me of a small group of people protesting against something and trying to force their beliefs on others.

Shouldn't the only real question be: "Do I enjoy playing this game and is it worth my sub fee?"

Am I a huge fan of the cash shop? No, not really. But when I really dig down and look deep within myself I realize that it's impact on me is virtually nil. Sure, I won't be able to have a few minor items if I don't want to pay for them and I won't be able to have a big fancy wedding (I can still have one though), but all in all the joy I get logging in and playing a pretty well put together game with my friends still wins out.

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Zitat von Velhart

This just in, any MMO that doesn't have WoW numbers is doomed to be F2P

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Name 5 themepark MMOs in the past decade that haven't gone F2P or aren't failing (Wildstar), go ahead. ARR not included of course.

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Zitat von Roris

Name 5 themepark MMOs in the past decade that haven't gone F2P or aren't failing (Wildstar), go ahead. ARR not included of course.

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Name 5 that are not WoW and FFXI/FFXIV that don't depend on investors to keep their game running. Do you even know why these MMO's even go F2P? Low player count is only half the reason.

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Zitat von Velhart

Name 5 that are not WoW and FFXI/FFXIV that don't depend on investors to keep their game running. Do you even know why these MMO's even go F2P? Low player count is only half the reason.

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I asked first so please answer my question.

I don't want to fan the flame of debate, but I'd like to draw attention to a reply to that Mog Log article that brings up some interesting points imo. Thanks to Dyvid for posting it there:

"Eliot (the mog log editor), I think you are missing the point of the debate with the cash shop. It's not a slam to micro transaction because the community has been asking for stuff like race change, name change, and server transfer. There also wasn't a huge upset when Slepnir was added.

The key problem is hiding half a features content behind a paywall and saying it's okay because it's fluff and vanity. Sure a mount, housing item, minion easy to say it's just fluff but is eternal bond considered fluff content since it has nothing to do with end game or PvE in general?

Let's explore the debate a little more. Savage Mode Binding Coil only gives players a title for winning so would it have been okay charge extra for this since is was just fluff as a reward for completing it? How about this, Starlight is coming up so it okay to give players a snowflake firework item then ask people to buy Christmas outfits, mounts, housing items, and minion from the Cash Shop? If no then why not?

I guess the final question is how do you define content? To me I would say an event or feature that players can participate in and are rewarded for completion. Eternal Bond is the feature and the reward for completion should be the mount, housing item, and minion."

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Zitat von KikInperi

Isn't their decision response enough? What are you looking for aside from them just telling you "hey we get that some of you don't wanna pay for things, but we kinda want you to pay for things... sorry bout it." Cause if that's what you're looking for, they've already said it without saying it and you need to just get over it. Yoshida isn't gonna email you himself begging you not to be pissed at him for running a business

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I was hoping for an official response, but I guess it would be ambiguous corporate speak anyway. Sure, I can get over it, that's why I've been on the 1 month renewable plan all this time while I wait to see which way it's going. If it goes 100% F2P then I can still use it to test my hardware and admire the graphics, but I would only pay for a game, not items in it. Somehow I don't think Yoshi-P gets the final say about the cash shop, but I don't know without a response. He doesn't lose either way because all the knowledge he gains from this game can be used in future games. It's already mission accomplished for him (nice game btw!)

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Zitat von Roris

Name 5 themepark MMOs in the past decade that haven't gone F2P or aren't failing (Wildstar), go ahead. ARR not included of course.

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There is a list of 10(includes WoW). http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploa..._mmo_table.jpg

Now these are listed as a subscription based MMO even though they have ways to play for free with certain limitations.

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Zitat von Roris

I asked first so please answer my question.

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Wow, you really don't get what I meant with my comment, do you?

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Zitat von TakKuroda

There is a list of 10(includes WoW). http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploa..._mmo_table.jpg

Now these are listed as a subscription based MMO even though they have ways to play for free with certain limitations.

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The person said 5 Themepark MMOs. WoW is so not a themepark MMO at all. Person also said games that haven't gone F2P.

TERA, SWTOR, and Aion are all F2P now. Tera and SWTOR have an optional subscription for extra bonuses, but free is still available.

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Zitat von TakKuroda

There is a list of 10(includes WoW). http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploa..._mmo_table.jpg

Now these are listed as a subscription based MMO even though they have ways to play for free with certain limitations.

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1. P2P
2. Was P2P till servers shut down (after 12 years) now F2P
3. F2P
4. F2P
5. F2P
6. P2P
7. F2P
8. ??? (Can't say)
9. ??? (Can't say)
10. F2P

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Zitat von Cadmar

Shouldn't the only real question be: "Do I enjoy playing this game and is it worth my sub fee?"

Am I a huge fan of the cash shop? No, not really. But when I really dig down and look deep within myself I realize that it's impact on me is virtually nil. Sure, I won't be able to have a few minor items if I don't want to pay for them and I won't be able to have a big fancy wedding (I can still have one though), but all in all the joy I get logging in and playing a pretty well put together game with my friends still wins out.

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You sir have hit the nail on the head.