Please do NOT alter Dark Knight AF for female characters.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

While this is about armor... can I just say that as a female I'd be pretty embarrassed to be using the WHM staff in the 3.0 shot...Just saying...

http://i.imgur.com/TkXSEwt.jpg

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Why emberassed, if I can ask? It's meant to be a statue-esque piece on the top of the staff. It's not really overtly sexual, at least no more 'sexual' than say, Cloud of Darkness was? To me it's just a piece of nice visual art.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Why emberassed, if I can ask? It's meant to be a statue-esque piece on the top of the staff. It's not really overtly sexual, at least no more 'sexual' than say, Cloud of Darkness was? To me it's just a piece of nice visual art.

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I'd only be embarrassed because it looks like a naked woman (very well endowed) thrusting her chest out - and not like something I think I'd want to show to my child or have them find in my closet. It isn't a bad piece at all - I just would be kind of embarrassed to own something that looked like that if it existed in real life and yep, in the game.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

I'd only be embarrassed because it looks like a naked woman (very well endowed) thrusting her chest out - and not like something I think I'd want to show to my child or have them find in my closet. It isn't a bad piece at all - I just would be kind of embarrassed to own something that looked like that if it existed in real life and yep, in the game.

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You must not like beaches and pools.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

I'd only be embarrassed because it looks like a naked woman (very well endowed) thrusting her chest out - and not like something I think I'd want to show to my child or have them find in my closet. It isn't a bad piece at all - I just would be kind of embarrassed to own something that looked like that if it existed in real life and yep, in the game.

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It looks like a classic Roman or Greek statuette ...

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

(And yes, I know you referred to all gear in the game and not just AF, but that's just a distraction to the issue here. The issue is about iconic Artifact gear.)

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You say that as if there actually is an issue, when in reality, it's people like you MAKING it an issue.

Only in video game clothing fashion could you ever get a hyper conservative and a hyper liberal to agree on something:

Conservative: OMG so LEWD! Cover it up!
Liberal: OMG you're objectifying me! Cover it up!

Meanwhile the moderates are like: "Eh looks horrible compared to [Insert Favorite] gear anyways."

I'd be more embarrassed wearing the Whm hood. The headgear in it's triangular shape just looks awkward as hell to me.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Seriously?

The staff doesn't portray anything but a angel figure. There us nothing sexual about it or even implied.

I think people get a bit over defensive about this kind of stuff. This is overreaching especially when there a good examples like the drg armor to look at instead of a staff with a figure on it.

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Jynx, you have to remember, we live in an age where the works of some of the greatest artists in history have to be covered in an effort to protect...well, I'm not sure who we are protecting, but someone is being protected according to those doing the covering. All manner of sculpture, including Michelangelo's David and heaven knows how many cherubs have been obscured. I'm sure that the figure on the staff would fall into the category of work that some would wish to see covered. We live in a new age of puritanical influence....

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

I'd only be embarrassed because it looks like a naked woman (very well endowed) thrusting her chest out - and not like something I think I'd want to show to my child or have them find in my closet. It isn't a bad piece at all - I just would be kind of embarrassed to own something that looked like that if it existed in real life and yep, in the game.

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Why? Apart from the obvious fact that anatomy is anatomy, what would the problem be with having such a sculpture in your home? How would it in any way damage your child's mind or development to see such a depiction? It's not sexual in any way, it's simply a nude(ish) figure. People really need to start learning to separate nudes (works of art) from sexually charged or explicit material.

I think people are confusing condemnation with embarrassment. Not wanting to show my child or have them find a staff like that doesn't mean I don't find any artistic value with it. I also don't think it would harm them at all -- moreso along the lines of I'd not want them finding our porn collection. The human form is something I don't think should be hidden, and I'm far from puritanical. I do value art and, to be honest, find the actual argument of this thread silly as I see nothing wrong with the female armor in this game - female armor should be different because, well, females are different - even if SE makes silly belly windows to accentuate that difference.

My main point is, I actually like the statue staff // and I find it appealing, especially in the way her arms combine into wings. All I meant was I would be embarrassed to own it due to my own, probably irrational, fear of people thinking I'm into naked sculptures for whatever reason they may deem to believe.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

I think people are confusing condemnation with embarrassment. **snip** All I meant was I would be embarrassed to own it due to my own, probably irrational, fear of people thinking I'm into naked sculptures for whatever reason they may deem to believe.

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My apologies, I misunderstood what you were saying, I understand better now. I will say that in the end, I think you will realize that you ultimately don't really care if people think you are into naked sculptures or whatever, because regardless of what you do, they will think things. The fact that you play an MMORPG already marks you as different.

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Originally Posted by SirDiscoFrog

I feel that this is being glazed over by so many pulling the 'this is an MMO, female charterers will always have sexy armor' card is that this is not the bulk of what the OP wants. There are plenty of nice skimpy armor for you to put on and glamour for your characters. No one is saying 'no more sexy in my game at all'. What is being requested is that an iconic piece of gear, that is the primary representation of a specific job or class, is not drastically altered for the sexes, theme wise or look wise. This set is suppose to represent Dark Knights. It does not need to be glamed up or dolled out for any reason.

Having a piece of gear better form a character is welcome in my opinion is makes logical sense (hence why so many were upset about the Noct Loct armor on females, although in my opinion it only looked good on fem/male roes, highlanders, and some catboys.) But having a piece of gear fit a character better does not mean redesigning it to show skin (al la Dragoon belly AF style), or making it more sexy, or glamorous. That's why as a few have noticed there are slight differences in all the AF armor between the males and females but only the Dragoon one is complained about extensively.

A number of other games do this well where a female character is given armor and it is entirely warped by any means, it just fitted to their figure without changing the fact that it is well thought out functional armor.

http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery...mor-female.jpg

http://madartlab.com/files/2011/12/hildelarge.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...ab3f80477d.jpg

http://madartlab.com/files/2011/12/femshep.jpg

Hilde and DA's armor is altered to fit them better and show that they are female without showing any skin and mainly focus on the fitting of the gear. Femshep could be a bit better but there's no boob window or skin slits so it gets a pass in my book lol

There is a time and a place for sexier gear, or gear that is more feminine between the male and female characters, but iconic tank gear(similar to the WAR and PLD sets) is not one of them. There will be plenty of other sexy gear released in the future, but I have faith they will leave this set's design alone and just properly fit it to both sexes unlike that scary Noct Loct.....man those abs were frightening. @__@

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You my good Sir get it. A voice of reason in a storm of guys angry their barbie can't be a pole dancer in every new piece of gear to be introduced. Revealing gear is fine, bikini armor is ok, 50 shads of grey battle harness is allowed, The OP was only mentioning the DRK AF. The iconic look of the job that sets it apart from all the other tank gear witch will look the same on two other jobs in the same role.

Back on topic (sorry for the little staff tangent), but sometimes SE errs on the side of men -- like this AF from FFXI. Real pirate-y scallawags would, I think, proudly thrust out their manly, hairy chests (sorry Tarutarus)... the lady version looks like what I think a piratey woman would wear -- the men, in that case, are the ones who are covered too much, imho. I don't see SE changing the DRK AF at all -- it seems in both FFXI and FF14, the tank classes are usually not hit by as much gender change (except the NIN tights in FFXI - which I thought looked better than the guy version anyway).

http://i.imgur.com/1YaKx1Q.png

1 set of heavy armor and everyone assumes it will be like that one set? All the other Heavy armor types are not as open. I personally love the look of High allagan tank coat

I think FFXIV has done a great job in comparison with other MMO's on the market that depict female characters with way too much skin showing. I personally loved the midriff showing on the DRG AF armor but I can see the issue with doing that. I think there should be a preference and a way to toggle it on or off much like the /visor emote with certain headgears. Also it is important to note that male characters have a lot of skin showing in certain gear too (Immortal flames robe, Coliseum gear, WOD monk/ninja gear etc.) so its been pretty fair between the genders for the most part IMO.

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Originally Posted by Lumidus

1 set of heavy armor and everyone assumes it will be like that one set? All the other Heavy armor types are not as open.

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I think more feared than assumed. If we wait until after it's in-game and we see the final version on everyone, and only then find out whether SE did something that detracts from the "Dark Knight" image, it would be too late by that point. I believe the OP was trying to head off potential problems in that regard by pointing it out while there's still time for the devs to see the concern and make sure the set that's released doesn't have any such issues. Perhaps it wouldn't have been an issue in any case, but by the time we know that, it would be too late for concerns over it to affect the design.

Keep in mind that the thread was started last October, when there would certainly have been plenty of time to resolve or avoid such problems. By now I'm not so sure that's still the case. But players will continue to discuss their concerns with each other until we know for sure (and then far longer if those concerns turn out to be warranted, but hopefully they won't be).

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Originally Posted by SirDiscoFrog

No one is saying 'no more sexy in my game at all'. What is being requested is that an iconic piece of gear, that is the primary representation of a specific job or class, is not drastically altered for the sexes, theme wise or look wise. This set is suppose to represent Dark Knights. It does not need to be glamed up or dolled out for any reason.

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Thank you for actually understanding my point. Like, seriously. All of it.

...though for the record, I kinda like the Noct gear for how hilariously overwrought it is. For the maximum impact, glamour the Replica Mistbeard Mask as the helmet (as it was originally designed to be, according to the art book)

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

http://i.imgur.com/TkXSEwt.jpg

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If you are embarrassed, offended, or otherwise feel that this is inappropriate: Please, please never go to an art museum with ancient Greek sculptures. There are penises on some of them, oh my god

For the record: I might use skimpier armor myself if miqo'te had a damn muscle tone slider.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

I think more feared than assumed. If we wait until after it's in-game and we see the final version on everyone, and only then find out whether SE did something that detracts from the "Dark Knight" image, it would be too late by that point.

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I wounder where the fear is coming. DRK AF will be tank gear, not DPS gear like DRG AF. Show one female version of Tank gear that show a lot more skin than the male version.

Idk why people are assuming the tank gear will be heavily altered. It never has and probably never will be. Idk what to say about the WHM staff since that one was completely random. You know what? I want a skirt for the DRK gear.

It's 2015 people, either move up with the times or go do something else.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The double standard exists in real life, but the opposite. Females can wear male clothing, and female clothing, but if men go into, say, Victoria's secret and start trying on stuff, they would be thrown out.

Just let this crap go away, its annoying and pointless and won't make a big impact either way.

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Indeed. Lets not pretend the Japanese Devs give two Fungah Farts about our non-japanese female sentiments. This thread wont change anything. We aren't their primary audience.

I still want to see a male Astro, i hope they look cool, i didn't like the Scholar male stuff. :(

WoL set -- Looks no different between genders
Phleggy set -- Looks no different between genders
PLD AF -- Looks no different between genders

This is all plate stuff, however when we look at Cloth/Scale/Leather, there are obvious gender differences such as the Subligars looking totally diff on males vs on women. XD

No hips, thighs, or breasts bared?!

But...but...how will they cater to their male audience?! :eek:

Joking aside, I'd like to see actual menacing Dark Knights (I'd like to be one, too, but, you know, Lalafell...). I come from an MMORPG I shall not mention, and too many times when I've seen high level armor on melee fighters, I'd swear that sex appeal was the primary goal. That's nice once in a while, but when it gets to the point where I sit there, not having even seen new armor, and think, I bet she'll be half-naked, and it turns out I'm right...

Yeeeaaahhh, no.

Character data limits, guys.

Less armor = less data.

So as long as the fairer sex wears less armor, we're all safe from the horrible omens predictions by the ancient mayans as long as your stomache, thighs, chest, shoulders, arms, hips, and butt are exposed. The more you expose, the more we protect THE FUTURE.

If you view it as fashion and 'clothing' I suppose you can make some of these arguments I've seen here, but IMO I see it as armor and I just don't quite feel that adequately describes taking out piece of armor just to show more body - particularly on a single gender. All it does to me is scream "kill me" and "pick a man if you want more intelligent protection".

I'd like it a lot more when both their gear themes (tanks tank, mages shouldn't be hit or hindered so less armor is fine) and each others gender match. Which to be fair SE has done alright with (dragoon though is a flop example), they're better than other MMOs at least lol*. If its a skirt on females, then make it a skirt on males. Although, as people have said tank gear made for tanks is generally designed around protection (my own personal qualms with glamour allowing bikini snowman paladins aside...).

While boobs are a big deal (huehue), imo, this stuff isn't just about the boobs - its why they are being treated differently and seemingly why the men are making better decisions. Also most people don't have a real life reference, but no- women's armor should not include boob caves or windows, they're bad ideas (in games most often while men follow something along the lines of fantasy realism women just got tossed off into the pool of fantasy, no realism for you*). At least make both genders make bad choices together, or the option to (like /visor just add toggles to gears /chesttrinket lol). It would still look silly to me if someone chose the window over not, but then when it is an option I'd know its just someone who wants to show their body (male or female), over being forced into the "girls can't wear armor as well as men, even if it isn't that heavy - they just have to remove something from it, specially remove it at the BnB areas" group video games love to place them in.

So while in video games some see gender separated clothes and fashion and unimportant for protection, I see armor and one gender consistently making poor choices when compared within the own game's construct. Again though, while it doesn't mean SE gets a free pass from comments (you never get a free pass from approach and reproach, imo), SE has actually done a pretty good job when you compare them to most other games within the same genre (imo.. :P)*.

*part of it references games in general and I wanted to make concession that for example Noct Lorica armor is actually the /same/ for both male and female (as most tank gears have very little or no difference, that's awesome).

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

At least we dont have Tera's Tank armor. Like Shogun said, its a rare thing in FFXIV for the "belly window" issue to occur. I just hope they maintain that. Maybe have some glamor gear for those who like the look but not for the base, BiS, or endgame gear.

http://2e130c55e0c2763c8a20-c7a4d0fe...d3745a96b5.jpg

Au Ra Armor leaked!

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Unleak! UNLEAK! lol

At least we dont have Tera's Tank armor. Like Shogun said, its a rare thing in FFXIV for the "belly window" issue to occur. I just hope they maintain that. Maybe have some glamor gear for those who like the look but not for the base, BiS, or endgame gear.

http://2e130c55e0c2763c8a20-c7a4d0fe...d3745a96b5.jpg

Au Ra Armor leaked!

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Originally Posted by Shougun

If you view it as fashion and 'clothing' I suppose you can make some of these arguments I've seen here, but IMO I see it as armor and I just don't quite feel that adequately describes taking out piece of armor just to show more body - particularly on a single gender. All it does to me is scream "kill me" and "pick a man if you want more intelligent protection".

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If this was the real world, then yes, I can totally see your point. however arguing that a lack of metal plate somehow depletes the armor utterly ignores the fact that the basic materials of our armor in this game (like so many others) could not stand up for a millisecond against the attacks of a primal, or the various death machines that the Garleans use. I would anticipate that the attacks of a large dragon would similarly overwhelm any such materials.

Clearly then our armor is something special, imbued with forms of protection that go beyond the mere physical ability to deflect or withstand damage. The aesthetics of the armor are therefore far more open to modification since the protective properties of the armor are not based on it's physicality. In which case, what does it matter whether a navel is covered?

That said, I'm not advocating this either;

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

http://2e130c55e0c2763c8a20-c7a4d0fe...d3745a96b5.jpg

Au Ra Armor leaked!

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Although It might increase the number of female Au Ra we see, not that a lack of numbers will be a problem with those....

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

At least we dont have Tera's Tank armor. Like Shogun said, its a rare thing in FFXIV for the "belly window" issue to occur. I just hope they maintain that. Maybe have some glamor gear for those who like the look but not for the base, BiS, or endgame gear.

http://2e130c55e0c2763c8a20-c7a4d0fe...d3745a96b5.jpg

Au Ra Armor leaked!

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That is from Tera I was told and not Final Fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Felis

I wounder where the fear is coming. DRK AF will be tank gear, not DPS gear like DRG AF. Show one female version of Tank gear that show a lot more skin than the male version.

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"Tank" and "DPS" are gameplay concepts, not job image concepts. It's just as counter to the Dragoon image as it is to the Dark Knight image to make a sexy revealing version for one gender. Both should be fully armored to suit the image of the job. There can be fully armored DPS jobs (like Dragoon, for instance). And though we don't have them in this game yet, there can also be unarmored or lightly armored tank jobs if they rely on evasion rather than absorbing blows to survive.

Somewhat related... can I just point out how bizarre it is, on a functional level, that female dragoons have that hole in the front?

Here they are, a class that specializes in POLEARMS... and they wear armor that makes them SUPER vulnerable to polearms? (You could run them right through with a spear in that 'stomach' hole...)

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Originally Posted by File2ish

Also just because MMO gear http://i.imgur.com/48Xntme.jpg

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more pictures like this need to be drawn

Well it seems like they've made minor alterations to the new SCH AF:

http://i.imgur.com/rddvDAv.jpg
Compared to this:
http://www.rpgfan.com/news/pictures2...iv_scholar.jpg

Looks like females will have micro miniskirt this time around

I did some adjustments to the AF for some fun and discussion;

Female Dark Knight with minimal changes;
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5a0hqcx0.png

Female Dark Knight with major changes;
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...psdsv7qnnd.png

Which would you prefer?

...I actually really like the second one to be honest with you.
But the original one also looks good. So it's like uhhh lol.

Don't mind me, my inner perv is drooling at the second one.

INNER PERV AHOY.

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Originally Posted by myahele

snip

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http://new4.fjcdn.com/comments/Grain...4f7b3c9ed1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kanemano

Female Dark Knight with major changes;
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...psdsv7qnnd.png

Which would you prefer?

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This image please. Boob and belly window ftw. Seriously people it's fantasy.

For the sake of fairness, (although I know we'll see some people pull this off somehow with some creative subligar use...);
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0q1ufxqm.png

Does this make sense when it's on a male? Double standards?

I like both of those Dark Knight alterations. But it also made me wonder, maybe the bellywindows and such are just there so people can on the spot see if it's a male or a female character. Looking at the fully armored female Dark Knight people might not even know it's a female, and I know that for some people showing ones gender is a big deal.

Just a thought I had when looking at those two pictures.

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Originally Posted by Kanemano

For the sake of fairness, (although I know we'll see some people pull this off somehow with some creative subligar use...);
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0q1ufxqm.png

Does this make sense when it's on a male? Double standards?

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I love this too. Just because we like how the boob and belly windows look doesn't automatically make it misogynistic or sexist. Some people like that aesthetic.