How did the community become this toxic?

98% of negativity is shared during the DF (x-server team matching) runs. "How" is a good question, but probably is too complex to solve.
From my experience people start to share negativity after certain triggers.
1. You lost aggro, mob attacked me! - Well, don't loose aggro or don't use DF (either if you want to avoid this).
2. Not healed well or died. - Heal well and don't die. Later also dps.
3. Stop stealing aggro! - Stop stealing aggro, that's all.
4. You don't have a job! - Get a job before you reach lv35, or people will keep saying this almost every time they notice.
5. We wiped because you didn't do something! Truth is - most of content in DF (exluding EX) can be completed by 1/2 of roles present, so they just ask you to carry them. - Carry them or leave.
6. Your gear is too low! If duty finder allowed you to enter your gear is not too low, again they just want to be carried by you. Carry or leave.
7. Why didn't you know how to speed run and wiped us? - Not sure about here, i personally do not attempt to speed run in DF and leave if team insists (30 min of waiting is better than 30 min of wiping + all insults).
8. Skip scenes! - Get a PF team or skip all scenes but the after-last-boss scene (ask which one is the last), later can watch them in the innkeeper room.
9. Troll. - Ignore or leave.
10. U no stoneskin me! - Just leave, save time, they are beyond salvation.
I try to avoid these triggers as they seem to proc in 90% of occasions.

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

community? what community? in ffxiv there is no sense of community> its all about joining duty finder, party finder and fates without being on a party and having to interact with other people. thats what makes ffxiv(2.0) "community" so toxic you dont have the need to make a good name for yourself.

back in 1.0 and ffxi if you were a douche the whole server would know and you would not be able to progress because you would not get an invite to party or an event, so 99% of people were nice, even the elite if not joining to help, would /tell you some advice.

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This is exactly right on. 1.0 minus a few people had a great community. ARR brought in the entitlement era, and this community that we have now. I blame SE/Yoshi for making relics a easy to get process. This is what also led the big ego I'm better than you bs. People standing around afk one week into ARR launch with a easy mode relic. Now they cry because they can't get their upgrade in one week. This what Yoshi wants a Candly land themepark with a bunch of sideshows, and carnival prizes to distract everyone from the real issue. His roller coaster ride is going in a downhill spiral. All I hear about now is "I don't have time to work for anything, I just want it handed to me" genre whatever the crap you want to call it. See people posting playing for 16 hours to get Atma but claim they have no time. Wth are you playing in the first place?

Its a product of the end game content. The fights are based on mass rote memorization of strategies. Extreme fights and many of the raid encounters are far too complicated for a person to memorize the strategy without multiple attempts, tutorial videos, and strategy guides. Meanwhile, players who enter duty finder do so to get some kind of reward out of it. Merely seeing the encounter is not a reward for a player who has done it many times. That player just wants the rewards from beating it and nothing else. That view point, which comes to predominate the end game community, is incompatible with the goals of new players who will likewise use the Duty Finder for the same convenience that long time players do.

And I'm bumping this to the top because, yes, the problem persists, and it is something that is very detrimental to the health of the game.

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Originally Posted by gadenp

Titan Happened. It is the great divider.

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"You either go into Titan knowing you'll die, or angrily persist long enough to see yourself become what Titan wants, the villian."

It really comes down to parenting. Proper parenting brings up better children.

Some examples: Warning! Some offensive language/ideas are about to be presented, so if you're easily offended… well, that's your problem. Don't say I didn't warn you.

http://youtu.be/_sA38IUPN6o

http://youtu.be/uhB_MYwQdkI

http://youtu.be/ALf2HZsGtGQ

Harsh, but it's an honest assessment of our current youth and aging society.

tl;dw – snowflake syndrome

Hmm... I have only been playing for a short while, but I have had very little problem with people in-game so far. Most players I have seem helpful and understanding.

Sure, there will be jerks and elements of toxicity. Every single MMO game I have ever played has had this to a certain level, be they players who will not put up with any mistakes, or those hoping the game will die because they dislike it. Things like that just happen in MMO's.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

Try showing up to a party (even an exp party!) with some unconventional job setups (PLD/RDM, DRK/BLU, WAR/DRK were all greeted with immediate hostility for me, and this was back in the golden days).

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Indeed. I started playing when it first came out in the UK. It seemed so silly that the mechanics of the job system allowed for a wide range of styles and ideas, yet if you job did not have the exact right sub, then partying and leveling was almost an impossibility. My favorite was RDM/NIN...

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

It really comes down to parenting. Proper parenting brings up better children.

Some examples: Warning! Some offensive language/ideas are about to be presented, so if you're easily offended… well, that's your problem. Don't say I didn't warn you.

http://youtu.be/_sA38IUPN6o

http://youtu.be/uhB_MYwQdkI

http://youtu.be/ALf2HZsGtGQ

Harsh, but it's an honest assessment of our current youth and aging society.

tl;dw – snowflake syndrome

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I've discovered why the community is so toxic.

protip: its you

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

It really comes down to parenting. Proper parenting brings up better children.

Some examples: Warning! Some offensive language/ideas are about to be presented, so if you're easily offended… well, that's your problem. Don't say I didn't warn you.

http://youtu.be/_sA38IUPN6o

http://youtu.be/uhB_MYwQdkI

http://youtu.be/ALf2HZsGtGQ

Harsh, but it's an honest assessment of our current youth and aging society.

tl;dw – snowflake syndrome

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Old people were moaning about kids 4000 years ago, I'll believe it when the current 4000 year long trend of things getting better stops.

What I am seeing is alot of gimme gimme, rush rush, lack of patience, basically bad attitudes. Lets not forget that some of those that hold others to high standards may also be ones that were carried through some things themselves. Some of them are also some of the ones demanding challenge yet will exploit anything they can, avoid clearing every mob, and even tout oh the boss is scripted, know what it does and its easy (challenge right?) . Ultimately internet anonimity and lack of consequences topped off with bribes to get others to "help" those in need only encourages a poor community.

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Originally Posted by Wulfyn

What I am seeing is alot of gimme gimme, rush rush, lack of patience, basically bad attitudes. Lets not forget that some of those that hold others to high standards may also be ones that were carried through some things themselves. Some of them are also some of the ones demanding challenge yet will exploit anything they can, avoid clearing every mob, and even tout oh the boss is scripted, know what it does and its easy (challenge right?) . Ultimately internet anonimity and lack of consequences topped off with bribes to get others to "help" those in need only encourages a poor community.

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I regularly encounter the "x primal fight is easy" in duty finder which speaks volumes about the kinds of people we're dealing with. They are essentially denying reality in a vain attempt to stroke their own egos. Not a single EX fight qualifies as easy. All of them require several deaths in the process of mastering. I don't mean "you may die in the process of mastering the fight." I mean people literally will ALWAYS die in the process of learning it.

DF easy primal EX kills do not exist, and the only "noobs", as they like to dub those who are still learning, are the ones who walk in thinking they are getting a free lunch.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

I regularly encounter the "x primal fight is easy" in duty finder which speaks volumes about the kinds of people we're dealing with. They are essentially denying reality in a vain attempt to stroke their own egos. Not a single EX fight qualifies as easy. All of them require several deaths in the process of mastering. I don't mean "you may die in the process of mastering the fight." I mean people literally will ALWAYS die in the process of learning it.

DF easy primal EX kills do not exist, and the only "noobs", as they like to dub those who are still learning, are the ones who walk in thinking they are getting a free lunch.

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Noob does pertain to a person learning, yes!

Wanted to comment on your assessment of EX Primals not being "Easy" though. I could do Leviathan Ex in my sleep on a tank, main or off, (He's the only one I consider a complete joke of a fight when tanking.) and I've only successfully cleared it twice with DF groups. It depends on the class/job going into the fight in terms of difficulty. Ifrit is hell on healers, Garuda is hell on tanks, Titan is just hell.

Toxic community is a divide really. Some people are rude to ignorant people, and some people are rude to people who don't know the fights, for example. It goes both ways, and everyone does it once in a while.

All in all. I just think Hunts are just really opening the community's eyes to how selfish a WoW-based combat system can be. So we're getting like a million "I hate people" threads.

I'm totes LC50

How did toxic become the go to word for nebulous complaining after having a bad day in game?

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Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion

All in all. I just think Hunts are just really opening the community's eyes to how selfish a WoW-based combat system can be. So we're getting like a million "I hate people" threads.

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How's the combat system to blame? Not refuting, just interested on why you think so. I'd say it's more the DF system.

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How did toxic become the go to word for nebulous complaining after having a bad day in game?

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You can blame employees from Riot Games (creators of League of Legends.) The word practically doesn't have an actual meaning anymore.

I can definitely vouch that its become toxic... No one cares to help out each other, as soon as a patch releases you see everyone racing each other around. If you ask a question in shout, more likely you'll get an answer with misinformation or other players trolling.

What people don't understand is that to get the best experience out of an mmo is to actually have a community. Mmos aren't there for solo play and then show your big prick by abusing other players.

I have come to the forums since the release of the latest patch to see if I can understand better certain mechanics of the game... Nope. All i see is bickering, fighting, racing and more player abuse.

Which is sad, because a game shouldn't basically become 'serious business' or a place which you receive player abuse for being new at the game or endgame content.

In all seriousness? Play the game with a chill pill. And if you need to be verbally abusive to other players maybe its time to take a break.

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Originally Posted by DreXxiN

You can blame employees from Riot Games (creators of League of Legends.) The word practically doesn't have an actual meaning anymore.

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What's wrong with the word toxic? Seems the perfect description for someone who spreads negativity all around them. Seems like some would rather address the word to avoid having to reflect on the behavior.

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Originally Posted by Scarletyoshi

What's wrong with the word toxic? Seems the perfect description for someone who spreads negativity all around them. Seems like some would rather address the word to avoid having to reflect on the behavior.

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It's stupid, and a buzzword. You will meet annoying/rude/evil people everywhere in life. You don't go around calling them toxic, do you? Just blacklist them/leave the duty/deal with it.

One thing I have learned above all else is that every single community ever is only as bad as the members in that community. It's not really the game's fault that the community is bad. It's the people in the community that either have this virulent, toxic behavior, get offended by said behavior and respond in kind, or completely ignore said behavior.

There are some really good, awesome people in the community, but as a whole, if we want the community to not be toxic, we have to be the ones to tell people that exhibiting toxic behavior isn't cool. The devs aren't really going to do much of anything in regards to harassment unless it's serious enough (i.e. stalking), so it's ultimately up to us to police our own behavior, but no one's really willing to do that, so you end up getting a community filled with people who feel perfectly fine being terrible people without fear of being called out on it.

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Originally Posted by Kiokin

It's stupid, and a buzzword. You will meet annoying/rude/evil people everywhere in life. You don't go around calling them toxic, do you? Just blacklist them/leave the duty/deal with it.

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Actually we do, and have for decades. Toxic people and communities is not a new concept.

Toxic community is the by product of a very toxic dev cycle this game is following. Almost every patch touts something amazing, but fudges it up horrifically. A la frontline ques, broken hunt system.

...But the way the game is designed is a good portion of the problem. Sure we have some bad seeds, all games do. Sure, trolls are much more commonplace in our online society than they ever have been. I got that.

However, its obvious that the great divide in hardcore/casual content in this game has contributed to this. This is a side affect from how Yoshi envisioned the game to be. It was aimed towards casual and hardcore players.

I think toxic is a very good way to describe the current social atmosphere that this game's community possesses. Consider most of the posts on this forum for example. There are people who have done SCoB that completely shit on others who don't have time, haven't tried or do not care about coil. They get this huge sense of superiority because they are doing the hardcore content - and if you are unable to clear SCoB or get the "best" weapons in the game too, you are a scrub. Anything other than 110 gear and a 115 weapon is "welfare" gear.

*BTW, please note that this does not apply to all who have cleared SCoB -but there a lot of those hardcore players that share this same mentality. Its literally plastered all over this forum.


That's another thing. I read a post yesterday where someone had commented about people running the new CT. They called the drops "welfare gear" and complained that Oils and Sands of Time will eventually be dropping to the scrubs who cant do coil - SE is "practically handing out raid gear to people who don't raid". This is just absurd. This type of mentality needs to stop. Again though, it is the design of the game that is to blame.

I think that part of this could be resolved by banning people who are just outright mean or pick on others for being a different point in the game than they are. It's kinda discrimination/harassment in way, isn't it?

One more point and I will shut up.
Players need to realize that not everyone started on the same exact day. We have not all progressed to the same point in the game, due to various personal/real life differences and availability to play the game. Not everyone has a schedule that works for a static or permits the time to coordinate a Coil run. Just because someone doesn't have a higher ilvl than you, or because they have not completed Coil, or because they chose to work on Novus/Animus instead of investing time into a Coil static, does not give you a legitimate reason to harass them, or completely shit on them for not being as flashy and hardcore as you. This should be reportable. Especially on these forums. This is where most of the toxicity brews imo.

Don't speak for everyone... I raise dead randoms, explain dungeons to new players, keep MB prices up on the stuff I sell by buying under priced items and relisting them at regular price etc...

Not all of us are bad people

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Originally Posted by Xerukm

How did the community become this toxic?

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...because of the hunts.

I stopped at Titan HM, simply because by that time I had had enough of the behaviour. That was my first and only time I attempted it for relic quest. That was about 6 months ago. That kind of behaviour is exactly why I will never tank DF or anything else but just for my FC/friends. I don't pay to listen to players be abusive or act like little spoiled brats. What players like that don't realize, at the end of the day the majority of the world doesn't give a Qiqirn's arse that they think theyre all that and a bag of chips, or what they may have accomplished in a video game. If I am in DF I am usually my lvl50 and I am there to help and get rewarded for helping. Helping is a reward of it's own.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

...because of the hunts.

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Because of the personal gains present are too hard to resist.

Not because of Hunts, more like the way it is implemented and basic human behaviour.

http://s21.postimg.org/869g4wqrr/this.jpg
This is why the community is toxic

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Originally Posted by Whimsicalalien

More and more WoW players are moving in.

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Funny, I'm a WoW player and I've seen more maturity from the elitists in that game than here.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

http://s21.postimg.org/869g4wqrr/this.jpg
This is why the community is toxic

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What's the success chance?

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Originally Posted by Alukah

What's the success chance?

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60%
I failed three times at 72% and at the one before that too
But I got the 50% on the first try!

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

http://s21.postimg.org/869g4wqrr/this.jpg
This is why the community is toxic

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yeah I definitely get salty as hell when I have to deal with materia..

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

http://s21.postimg.org/869g4wqrr/this.jpg
This is why the community is toxic

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What are you attempting or synthing there? seeing Infusion and sphere scroll got my attention.

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Originally Posted by Immut

Actually we do, and have for decades. Toxic people and communities is not a new concept.

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No you haven't. The word toxic is the hip new thing. Nobody calls people toxic in real life unless you're singing a Brittney Spears song.

I had a really good experience tonight doing just my 2nd ever dungeon in the Copperbell Mines. I accidentally attacked and killed the bomb - the only thing that can damage the 2nd mini boss for the first few turns - on the first go round without realizing it. It was too late once I figured out I was the only one going after the bomb and I was waiting to get blasted for it in party chat, but the other folks had clearly done the dungeon before and calmly told me what the deal was and how the fight goes. The rest of the dungeon went without incident, the whole thing was really fun, and I hope to have the opportunity to repay that kindness to another new player whenever I end up leveling my 2nd job. I've seen a lot of bad in this thread so I wanted to report some good deeds that happened to me tonight.

Use the blacklist heavily, and do for others what 3 nice folks did for me tonight, and we can make this a great gaming community.

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Originally Posted by Wulfyn

What are you attempting or synthing there? seeing Infusion and sphere scroll got my attention.

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This is infusing Materia to the Magic Scroll which you need to Upgrade Animus to Novus Weapon.

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Originally Posted by Mags

I wanted to chime in to say we are playing two very different games when it comes to player interactions. <snip> But in my opinion, the majority of the runs I have interacted with people that are friendly, helpful and overall pleasant to party with.

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Agree wholeheartedly. You get the odd idiot that wants to votekick anyone new or not up to par with their personal standards or speed, but that's about it. And generally they leave and are quickly replaced anyway.

And out in openworld, I've been having a ball on Cerb. Some really nice, helpful people.

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Originally Posted by Kiokin

No you haven't. The word toxic is the hip new thing. Nobody calls people toxic in real life unless you're singing a Brittney Spears song.

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While it is the hip new thing, it WAS used to describe people or communities that have a habit of making the people who associate with them worse people, like street gangs or the public school system or final fantasy 11.

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Originally Posted by Killabri

I had a really good experience tonight doing just my 2nd ever dungeon in the Copperbell Mines.

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People in this game are far more forgiving of new players in lower level dungeons. I don't know when exactly it is that people begin to go "AUGH WHY DIDN'T YOU WATCH A VIDEO FIRST" and drop party after one wipe.

I've had a few bad experiences, but most of the time I am impressed by how many nice players I have met in ratio to the not-so-nice. Many players I've found are extremely helpful.

If I encounter someone I don't want to play with, I won't.

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Originally Posted by Xerukm

I remember when the game first launched and I started playing, almost everybody was helpful and it was a lot of fun to group up and do random stuff. So what happened?...

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Probably back in 1.x the players playing are mostly old ff11 players, which is a game focus on ppl working together, and the player base is an older generation of people which mostly got patience. With 2.0 attracted a lot of new players and most ff11 players got disappoint with 1.x and stopped, you get now this new generation of younger players which most are just impatient kids and have no concept of helping others, sure there are still nice new players.

Just think about how players use to go through the whole mario games without any saves and if you die you start from beginning, and now days the young players complain if a game doesnt provide a check point every 5 mins, you'll get the idea

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Originally Posted by Xerukm

I remember when the game first launched and I started playing, almost everybody was helpful and it was a lot of fun to group up and do random stuff. So what happened?

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JP players left US and EU servers, thats what happened...