Fall back and regroup: time for crafting autoleveller?

I agree with OP (in light of the current system's failings), but would like to see the idea of competitive crafting mini-games further explored (for instance, a mini-game could be initiated when crafting a rare item, or maybe a kind of game can be played between players to compete for a weekly tournament prize, etc... Just some ideas that might expand on the current system and its function)

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Originally Posted by Mortikhan

People are not born master craftsmen...they have to work at it. That means they have to spend hours and weeks and years learning and perfecting their craft. The phrase "Practice makes perfect" is not a punchline. In order to reach that state of perfection they needed to make something over and over again in the same manner.

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No argument there, but you're missing the point. A master craftsman doesn't become a master craftman by focusing 99% of his/her attention on something other than the craft while they practice it. I'm not suggesting that the game make us put in the same effort as it would take to master a craft in the real world, but I do think if we can do it just hitting enter over and over then something is wrong with the mini game.

Crafting is a waste of human life. So is reading this thread. I think I should of crafted instead.

After thinking about the use of an autoleveler, I think it could be an excellent idea, to promote gathering. And sway stubborn players like myself to once again pick up my hatchet, and pickaxe for other than using em for quick. (Gathering is soo boring, maybe add an autoleveler for gathering also ^^. Im also perfectly happy paying for my hq mats I need.) Since you can in essence synth 1000 items a day if not more. The demand will far out weigh the supply, and materials will increase ASAP.

Well that is until more bots figure this out and focus on gathering then prices will deflate like the once mighty mighty shard/crystal reign. Or at the very least a few months until everyone is a r50 black / goldsmith, armor, weaver and carpenter that is. Then the new bubble will be the hq mats.

I realize why P.Falcon suggested this adjustment, it was not to ease the crafting system of monotony ( since he clearly has no problem pressing enter non stop ), it was a new means to promote his belief that only gatherers should craft, like he has said countless times. If gathering were to become more prevalent, in FFXIV we might finally be free from his posts, I might be in favor of that.

It might just be time for gatherers to be in the spotlight, well until introduce epic non-craftable gear.

Welcome to the player driven market working as it was supposed to. Leves were supposed to your method of levelling without getting real materials from gathering yourself or buying from other gatherers. It's like it was yesterday that crafters were crying shards were too expensive and they couldn't drone on.

Bot gatherers are far easier to tell apart from a player than a bot crafter is. If SE won't take advantage of that and get rid of them then this game will never be lifted from it's downward spiral. If you were so familiar with his posts that you would be happy to be rid of them you would've noticed that those ranks haven't changed in ages.

Actually I did notice, read my other post about it.

SE responce to the shard/crystal mess was adding recipes, whose mats were easily obtained through fishing helping gatherers, and alchemist alike. Though I preferred lanolin for r35/36. And look now who still buys shards/crystals other than new players?

Bots are not the main reason, the game is in the shape it is. It's a minor factor yes, I agree. We all know bits are here to stay, sad...yes. At this time Gil is meaningless, there is nothing to buy. Stockholding Gil just like beastmen currency, and deaspected crystals in hope they will be used at later time. Sooner or later SE will do something about bots, ( maybe when they introduce something meaningful to spend gil on ) but I'm far more interested in other aspects this game being improved upon as top priority.

SE is silently keeping track of bots, for the 1st major swing of the Bot Ban Hammer. To fund "The Twelvebonanza" that would be funny.

As far as leves being a main source of sp, I know that as well, and do them constantly. I don't usually grind till post r30's if I'm going to take a class to r50, or if I have all the guild marks I need and grind to r36. By that time I hardly if ever need to buy mats to grind on to r36.

It's getting to a point where players are requesting auto this, auto that. SE should just introduce gambits again like XII where you need to spend 2~5m per action for 240 hours of use. it's a gil sink, and players can auto level/craft/gather all they like.

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Originally Posted by JunkPunch

I realize why P.Falcon suggested this adjustment, it was not to ease the crafting system of monotony ( since he clearly has no problem pressing enter non stop ), it was a new means to promote his belief that only gatherers should craft, like he has said countless times.

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It's both. Of the three systems, crafting is the worst and most mindless. It couldn't get any more mindless. I have no confidence in their ability to make all that Netflix time enjoyable enough to be spent with the game, not with the enter button. Therefore, this is something that can be fixed. Delete the **** time spent crafting. Shunt it to the better battling and gathering systems. Improve the battle and gathering systems. Only reason people like crafting more than gathering is because crafting is so BAD that it takes no attention at all, and you aren't even playing the game when you're doing it. You're pressing a button while doing something else. In gathering you're playing the game and half-paying attention to something else. Gathering takes movement and abilities and reflexes and that annoys people. They want free levels for watching television. They're the lazy ones.

Once the crafting grind is deleted and battling and gathering are improved, then come back and make the process of crafting PRODUCTS more enjoyable. Forget the thousand rings phase. Make it gone. Doesn't need to be here.

Game would be better for it.

Made an Engraved Bhuj+3 over the weekend. Only took me about 2.5 hours total. Like I said, I'm a crafter. I dunno what many in this topic consider themselves, I bet half have not even made a worthwhile product with their crafts yet. They're still just spamming away.

There are players who make worthwhile products, and then there is a horde of players who make trash products when they still sell well. Big difference. One type of crafter should dominate crafting. The other type should be 2nd class.

The thing your not realizing peregrine is the amount of DoL out there. Theres an abundance with multiple DoLs. Sure, autolever will increase prices at first. After 2 weeks. Prices will go back down. It wont solve any issues. And if your so adamant about humans wasting their lives. A video game is not the place to be so adamant about it. Politics are. This is a video game. Its there in front of me, ppl enjoy it. Make the best of it, but don't put everyone down in the process because we want to continue playing all aspects.

I'd much prefer to make multiple batches in one go, manually.

I mean it is rather tedious making things like nuggets, especially when you've got enough for 200 of them

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Originally Posted by Skeloton

I'd much prefer to make multiple batches in one go, manually.

I mean it is rather tedious making things like nuggets, especially when you've got enough for 200 of them

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which would be a good use for an auto crafting tool

WHEN sp is no longer an issue

i wanna make that item 20 levels below me 50 times(nuggets?) well then itl make sense for it to do it automaticaly for me

however having an auto crafter as a means to level up is just plain rediculous


in the end, the OP had 1 goal in mind
he wants to legitimize botting so that he can himself bot(hes more then admited to this if you really read all his posts)

Defensive much? It's hard to take anyone seriously when they don't want anyone else to have an easier time (NOTE: time) because they decided to bull rush through everything in a less than ideal state.

So anyone knowledgeable in botting has to be a botter right? To work as a police officer I had to have been a criminal beforehand right? Do you know how dumb that sounds?

Want to know something else? The only other person I know with that many crafting ranks was botting day and night. By that logic you are a botter and don't want anyone getting near you legitimately.

If you can't add anything meaningful to a thread don't bother posting.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Defensive much? It's hard to take anyone seriously when they don't want anyone else to have an easier time (NOTE: time) because they decided to bull rush through everything in a less than ideal state.

So anyone knowledgeable in botting has to be a botter right? To work as a police officer I had to have been a criminal beforehand right? Do you know how dumb that sounds?

Want to know something else? The only other person I know with that many crafting ranks was botting day and night. By that logic you are a botter and don't want anyone getting near you legitimately.

If you can't add anything meaningful to a thread don't bother posting.

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wow, such logic

i have alot of ranks therefore im a bot

tell that to the people im talking to nonstop while i sit and craft all day

so obviously its YOU who is getting upset and defense here, not me


the entire point is this, Peregrine sits here and bashes crafters all day
then he talks about how much he hates botters
then he talks about how he wants crafting to be exactly like botting so that everyone is on equal ground
he even gives very detailed descriptions about how specific botting programs works(almost as if he knows first hand if ya get the point)

the entire point is, making an auto leveler is just plain dumb

either work for your levels, or dont play a game(yes, working for them, even if its as simple as sitting for hours on end spamming standard, is still working on it no matter how mindless it is)


also, if you read everything, youd also have seen him tell us all that everyone who bots needs to be banned for cheating, and everyone who doesnt needs to be banned for having no life
how much sense does that make to you?

Vedis, you mustn't of read my post properly or misunderstood it. I meant for making multiple batches in one go manually, you really only do the synth once but end up with multiple batches. With SP gain in mind I was thinking you gain like 75% or more than if you had of done each individual synth

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Originally Posted by Skeloton

Vedis, you mustn't of read my post properly or misunderstood it. I meant for making multiple batches in one go manually, you really only do the synth once but end up with multiple batches. With SP gain in mind I was thinking you gain like 75% or more than if you had of done each individual synth

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i had that idea a while back too, but with 50% gain(much like hasty hands)
but with the risk that a fail meant you failed ALL of them(also no possibility of HQ)

risk vs reward type thing, and itd go somewhat along the lines of an auto crafter and works perfectly with making lower level materials(especialy when you dont care about quality anymore and just want the damn mats)

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

listen to him, he has first hand experience using these programs

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You demonstrate the same behaviour of anyone that does bot and have the ranks to show for it so what is your point attacking someone else after getting called out? Macro keyboards are the same thing as botting. You've added nothing to this thread over all of your posts except getting defensive.

I've been following the thread and all you've been doing is penalty penalty penalty or don't change anything. It's already been stated by a CM that it's intended to not be mindless crafting but being the market. What is your solution?

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

You demonstrate the same behaviour of anyone that does bot and have the ranks to show for it so what is your point attacking someone else after getting called out? Macro keyboards are the same thing as botting. You've added nothing to this thread over all of your posts except getting defensive.

I've been following the thread and all you've been doing is penalty penalty penalty or don't change anything. It's already been stated by a CM that it's intended to not be mindless crafting but being the market. What is your solution?

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what behavior am i demonstrating?

ive stated i want all bots banned
ive gotten several banned

i play ALOT

i have alot of ranks

since when does playing alot and having the ranks to show for it = bot?


and you obviously havent followed this thread in its entirety or all of perigrines nonsense, thats what this thread is about, go read the others hes done.

all this is, is him saying "we cant fight the bots so lets joni them"
i dont want to join them, i want to do things legit like i always have.


also just to clarify, IF i was a bot, id have 50 in everything by now.....id never log out cuz obviously i wouldnt have to to rank up, but anyone who knows me in game can tell you, i take ALOT of breaks where im logged out, and when i am logged in, im VERY active, and not botlike at all


as to the whole idea behind this thread, as i said, its his idea of turning everyone into bots to combat botting, thats not the answer

the answer is now, and always shall be, get the task force on things to try and clean up the bots in game

If crafting isn't going to be an equal class, but instead a hobby, please make it faster or give us an automatic system. If it is going to be considered equal than hopefully they can come up with something to make it more entertaining.

Lol, i may aswell be a bot, the amount of times ive fallen asleep crafting still mashing the enter button....

If SE adds some auto-leveler to crafting or any other part of the game, it will be like saying, we just wasted 2 years coming up with this idea, to kill it. SE needs to tackle the real issue here, and that is...

1) Items are in too much abundance (thus making crafting too easy to rank up, especially for botters)
2) Crafting system requires no brain at all (spamming standard works better than using skills)
3) Shards/Crystals are craftable (this is fed by bots that farm fish all day)

The real solution here is to...

1) reduce drop rates of common grinding items
2) either increase shards required per synth or remove the fish desynths to make shards
3) Increase the difficulty of the sythesis process (making is VERY hard to bot)
4) Bot Task Force actually doing something

If what peregrin wants happens, you might as well be throwing away all the work you did with creating these crafting classes and the whole crafting system. This will be a huge step backwards in my opinion, What would be the value in having a maxed craft when there is no point in crafting? You will have 100's of every item available, people trying to sell for 1 gil over NPC rate, the mats you farm will NPC for more than the finished item does. Why waste shards, why craft at all? You will be heading down the path of destruction quicker. This wont fix the economy. This will only make the people who dislike crafting able to craft, but what about the players who might not like battle as much as gathering or crafting? You are going to kill off some of your playerbase, and soon noone will care.

I played WoW just like tons of others, and auto crafting was the worst idea ever, took no challenge, no skill, no patience, nothing, just press a few buttons and done. If you make the materials harder to get, this increases their prices, which makes boting by buying materials a little harder to do.

Peregrine, quit being lazy, play the game as created and quit trying to ruin what fun someone else has, just because you don't have fun doing that same thing. To each their own.

The biggest issue here is the lack of support to ban or stop botters.

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Originally Posted by AuctionGirl

I played WoW just like tons of others, and auto crafting was the worst idea ever, took no challenge, no skill, no patience, nothing, just press a few buttons and done. If you make the materials harder to get, this increases their prices, which makes boting by buying materials a little harder to do.

Peregrine, quit being lazy, play the game as created and quit trying to ruin what fun someone else has, just because you don't have fun doing that same thing. To each their own.

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Does anyone actually think about what they are saying before making these kind of comparisons? WoW and majority of MMO's that have a crafting system gives you bare the minimum to craft so you can rank up without needing recipes/designs/patterns/plans/etc. Your baseline crafts are borderline worthless because rank wasn't the end all of crafting which is what they want to change here.

Anything worth a damn you need to get the recipe that usually ends up being a rare world drop or you need to earn reputation to make it unlike XIV that gives you everything for doing nothing. When they add new crafting recipes to this game, EVERYONE can make it instantly and you have no uniqueness at all.

I'm sure someone thinks licking thousands of stamps is fun. How much of that crafting were you doing with only the game open or not watching TV? I doubt very much, that means it isn't fun.

Crafting and everything involved has far larger problems than worrying about auto-crafting through the BS section of it.

I think a good possible solution that would be aside from an auto-level feature would be rewarding people for high durability/high quality. Some sort of SP adjustment value that takes into account the ending durability and quality that awards more SP scaling up higher as those two values increase.

Spamming standard would be 300sp, while using abilities and going for high values would award 800-1000sp on the same synth...idk just a thought.

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Originally Posted by twinkles

I think a good possible solution that would be aside from an auto-level feature would be rewarding people for high durability/high quality. Some sort of SP adjustment value that takes into account the ending durability and quality that awards more SP scaling up higher as those two values increase.

Spamming standard would be 300sp, while using abilities and going for high values would award 800-1000sp on the same synth...idk just a thought.

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i agree, and they should lower gains on super easy synths.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

It's so mindnumbing that even if you would reward people who can sit through that many life hours hitting the same button over and over...why would you?

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This was written on page 1 and is the most important point of all, in my mind.

I'm unsure of a perfect solution but crafting can't stay the way it is for this game to be successful. So many players making the argument to keep the system are making convoluted statements about rewarding time invested and other things.

The bottom line is, crafting is boring. I can't imagine anybody signed up to play an MMO to sit still and hit the same button over and over without any critical thought or strategy.

The game has to be fun to keep players around. The addiction to character development wanes if it's purely a treadmill system we're running.

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Originally Posted by JunkPunch

After thinking about the use of an autoleveler, I think it could be an excellent idea, to promote gathering. And sway stubborn players like myself to once again pick up my hatchet, and pickaxe for other than using em for quick. (Gathering is soo boring, maybe add an autoleveler for gathering also ^^. Im also perfectly happy paying for my hq mats I need.) Since you can in essence synth 1000 items a day if not more. The demand will far out weigh the supply, and materials will increase ASAP.

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Why level a craft then? In XI you had the exact system you describe with raw materials costing more than processed materials which cost more than finished goods. Crafters simply NPC the goods in order to slightly defray the costs of buying the stuff they leveled on. This system also places crafting out of the reach of the casual player who not being able to use their craft to pay for leveling it, and not having the play time to farm 10 hours a day every day, becomes unable to level the craft. Crafting is dead in XI for those very reasons. The goal in XIV seems to have been to create between the various crafts and gathering that allows crafting and gathering to profit, and so far it seems to have worked. The problem for most players seems to be the boring/mindless nature of the mini game.

I level craft's to equip my classes. Did you by chance read the 2nd paragraph of that post?

Anyways if a casual player is worried they won't have the Gil to buy mats to grind on, I would think, (if they really wanted to craft that is) they would pick up a gathering class. To either supply their craft. No?

With harvesting, boring as it may be, is 1000% more plentiful than in xi, gathering is casual player friendly. There is also the local leves to rank up your class, like I posted before I rank up to at least ~r30 via local leves. Free mats to grind on, and mats for future grinding. Hell rank up DoM/DoW to r50 and youll make 100k a week easy via leves, and drops.

If they decide to go with an auto leveler (which I highly doubt) there is no reason a casual player could not level a craft. There will always be multiple paths to get things done involving this game.

If you don't waste time trying to hard cap gathering fatigue every day it only ends up being 1 hour every 15 hours to soft cap Mining after you become familiar with it, this is including 2 leves. I don't see this being any different for a Botanist, no idea about fishing.

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Originally Posted by Val_Rhys

The bottom line is, crafting is boring. I can't imagine anybody signed up to play an MMO to sit still and hit the same button over and over without any critical thought or strategy.

The game has to be fun to keep players around. The addiction to character development wanes if it's purely a treadmill system we're running.

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I can promise you, you are dead wrong. In fact is Crafting Was one of the major reasons people were excited about this game. FFXI had hundreds if not thousands of players not BOT who did absolutly nothing but craft. All day every day.

People who like crafting want it to become more intricate not dumbed down for lazy people. The mere suggestion that crafting should become and auto level as the OP says is an Insult to half the players of this game.

If you don't wanna put in the effort to level your crafts then go fight something. There are plenty of people who don't fight because they want to level there crafts and there are plenty of people who don't fight because they want to gather. People need to start being more considerate of other peoples Experience and Stop being Selfish.

You can't have it all..

Unless you put in the effort

NO.....it's like you start the game set a couple of things , black screen , game finished .

This is basically what you are suggesting...why you even play this game ?

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Originally Posted by JunkPunch

I level craft's to equip my classes. Did you by chance read the 2nd paragraph of that post?

Anyways if a casual player is worried they won't have the Gil to buy mats to grind on, I would think, (if they really wanted to craft that is) they would pick up a gathering class. To either supply their craft. No?

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In XI you were able to make gil gathering, but you had to be super lucky. You could mine in Aht Urghan areas for months and never get a single Kroma Ore. XIV seems a bit different in that respect.

Most aren't leveling a craft just to make their own gear. To me its about being able to afford stuff as endgame comes out, but I'm sure lots of other reasons for doing it exist.

I don't see the reason for all the hatred regarding this change. As it stands right now, the change would switch sitting at your computer smashing the enter key for hours, to leaving the computer to go to do something else for a few hours. Theres nothing skillful about the current crafting process, nor is there any fun involved. To be honest, this would NOT be a step back.

Also, the original intention for making crafting and gathering work in this manner was to deter botting, which as you have seen has little to no effect.

i had thought about if they made crafting use a similar minigame as the gathering ones, keep the standard, rapid and bold attempts and wait. i think this might make crafting too easy mind you

As a new player my thoughts on the crafting system are that it's rather difficult to understand and even get into compared to the gathering and combat. Going beyond the whole anti botter angle, it appears the system was originally designed to favor a quality over quantity approach to crafting and to make it a lot more personal to the player, compared to World of Warcraft's almost industrial manufacturing process. The problem is that this conflicts with the need to increase rank in order to make more powerful items, which requires going through the same mini-game hundreds of times. If they want to go this route, it might be better to just have some other means to increase rank other than directly crafting, and leave the direct crafting to the more personal efforts of the player when he/she feels ready to sit down and make items for the Bazaar/AH or for him/herself. That or make early crafting a relatively strait forward affair and add in the mini-game elements at the later levels or for special cases when the player wants to attempt to make high quality goods.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

As a new player my thoughts on the crafting system are that it's rather difficult to understand and even get into compared to the gathering and combat. Going beyond the whole anti botter angle, it appears the system was originally designed to favor a quality over quantity approach to crafting and to make it a lot more personal to the player, compared to World of Warcraft's almost industrial manufacturing process. The problem is that this conflicts with the need to increase rank in order to make more powerful items, which requires going through the same mini-game hundreds of times. If they want to go this route, it might be better to just have some other means to increase rank other than directly crafting, and leave the direct crafting to the more personal efforts of the player when he/she feels ready to sit down and make items for the Bazaar/AH or for him/herself. That or make early crafting a relatively strait forward affair and add in the mini-game elements at the later levels or for special cases when the player wants to attempt to make high quality goods.

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This yes please!