New Live Letter: YoshiP Comments on Housing Prices

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Originally Posted by Bori

The get off this thread. For us who actually care this is grating to hear people talk like this.

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Oh thats cool, so she can't comment on the forums? Ignorance is bliss.

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Originally Posted by Bori

You don't care so therefore your opinion is colored and therefore doesn't contribute meaningfully to the discussion of those who give a damn about this problem. I don't care for pvp.. I don't go into those threads and bitch that it sucks but I don't care anyway so I may be biased". If you don't care why are you here?

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You're just taking one thing she said out of context -.- this is a DISCUSSION all she is doing is weighing in the pro's and the cons...

I don't get it, the housing gives you no special bonuses at this point. Its just a trophy and gathering point. Its it really that bad that its hard to obtain? They will patch it in a few weeks if the rate people are buying land is lower than expected.

People complained that gil and crafting are worthless and then complain that there is an end game gil objective that is challenging.

I must be the only person around who thinks its better to start out making it harder, monitor the economy and adjust as needed.

/emote steps out of flames...

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Originally Posted by BillyBones

Oh really? I must have missed that part. Cause all I see here are people who refuse to settle for anything less than the best and biggest houses and would rather whine and wait months instead of getting a smaller one.

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You must not have read any of my posts. :-\ My FC wasn't even expecting to get a house the first day. We actually planned on waiting with a group of people to try to buy housing in the same neighborhood (we're RPers, and we wanted to do RP neighborhoods both to not disturb non-RPers and also because it would be more fun that way). We have 55 people in our FC, and many are not level-capped yet. We had hoped to get a medium-sized house, because that seemed to be about right for the size, and eventually buy a large plot when we grew. But even the smallest house is out of our range, and at our current rate of gil acquisition, it would take us five years to be able to buy the smallest, worst plot of land. :-\ That's why I am upset. I don't want the largest, best house the first day. I don't even want the smallest house the first day. But I would like housing to feel within the reach of my FC. And I simply don't feel it is.

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Originally Posted by Lexxuk

20,000g per day. So an FC with 10 members will make 200k a day, the cheapest house on Durandal is 40,000,000 . 40,000,000 / 200,000 = 200 days to obtain the smallest house. 30 days (roughly) in a month, 200/30 = over 6 months to obtain the cheapest house on Durandal.

20,000 per day, the most expensive house is 645,000,000, so it'll only take 32,250 days for that FC to obtain that, or with 100 members, 3,250 days, or with 1,000, a year.

"Let's introduce content that most people will not obtain"
"Why?!"
"Why not?"
"Oh, okay, let's go for it!"

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Lol@ FC with ten members. Invite 10 more people then it's three months. Invite 30 more then it's 3 months with only 10,000 a day needed, or 1.5 with 20000 a day... Seriously you come in here mad about this with an FC with 10 members? That's what link shells are for.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Not that the rest of what you said is wrong, but why exactly are you in a FC you can't trust and looking forward to/donating gil then?

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I didnt say me personally, but cmon, how many of us have been in guilds before where the banks got wiped out or something. and anything can happen, maybe 3 months after you give up your share of the costs, the FC breaks, or the guild leader rages out and starts kicking people. you never know.. and if i invest say 10 mil for a larger plot, id have a huge problem having to trust that someone else wont screw me over. If im going to pay a large sum of gil for something purely for aesthetics, im going to do whatever i want with it, whenever i want, and no one (short of SE) will be able to take it from me purely on a whim. Whats to stop some greedy person from going ..okay guys thanks for the 200 million gil, now get out so i can enjoy my brand new gigantic house to myself

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

You must also hate the minimum wage argument as well.

Since you can't afford mcdonalds do you want to eat shit because it's cheaper? Prices have to match their respective attractiveness.

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Why are small houses shit? There is probably not much difference between them other than size. Just see it that way; Most guilds can get small housing on day one. They can get middle sized housing after 3 months. Then they can move on to the biggest housing after a year. It is something that is supposed to give your guild a common long-term goal, something to work for. As things are now, guilds are nothing more than chat channels. There is no competition between guilds as there is nothing to unite the guild members. Guilds lack IDENTITY. I'd rather have expensive houses than every nub guild getting biggest housings handed to them

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Originally Posted by PapesseLudovique

"Count to ten and breath" seems to be the new copy pasted buzzphrase for the fanboys.

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I like how you counter-attack strawmen with strawmen, and you throw in a dash of ad hominem for good measure.

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Originally Posted by BillyBones

Why are small houses shit?

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Because it's retarded to spend 20 mil on literally an inn room?

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Most guilds can get small housing on day one. They can get middle sized housing after 3 months. Then they can move on to the biggest housing after a year.

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There is no "move on" to the next size, you dont get your gil back, nor can you sell it. What you're actuall advocating is STARTING OVER every time.

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Lol@ FC with ten members. Invite 10 more people then it's three months. Invite 30 more then it's 3 months with only 10,000 a day needed, or 1.5 with 20000 a day... Seriously you come in here mad about this with an FC with 10 members? That's what link shells are for.

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FC have some advantages compared to LS, like the buffs. Why they cant be a small FC? They have to play the way you want?

And is not like the small house can hold more like 5 dudes inside.

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Originally Posted by Nica

Because it's retarded to spend 20 mil on literally an inn room?

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We don't know the actual size yet. Its says 50 pieces can be placed in the smallest housing. I doubt they all would fit in an inn room.

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Originally Posted by IStolzI

Lol@ FC with ten members. Invite 10 more people then it's three months. Invite 30 more then it's 3 months with only 10,000 a day needed, or 1.5 with 20000 a day... Seriously you come in here mad about this with an FC with 10 members? That's what link shells are for.

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Statistics for you, because you're an idiot.

Durandal. Highest population FC = 179 members. Only 3 FC's have a population > 100, only 15 have a population > 50
41 FC's have between 31-50 members
287 FC's have between 11 - 30 members
660 FC's have between 1 - 10 members

The biggest FC (179 members) would obviously want the largest plot, 500,000,000 gil. Each member would need to donate 2,793,297 gil, for the cheapest large plot. At 20,000g per day, they would take 139 days to get the cheapest large plot.

The vast majority of FC's have between 1 and 10 members, the cheapest plot is 40,000,000 gil, do I need to tell you how much each member would need to donate to get a shack?

Also, I'm pretty sure I pointed out that you require 6 months with an FC of 1,000 people to get the most expensive plot of land, or 1 year with 500 members, so you're saying an FC with 1,000 members should get 2,000 members to get the housing in 3 months? Were you born stupid or do you practice every day?

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Originally Posted by BillyBones

Why are small houses shit? There is probably not much difference between them other than size.

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At a bare minimum, a small house holds 10 fewer furnishings than the free mog house you got in XI, and it costs you 8 million just to get the land. Part of the fun of having housing, and for some the entire fun of it, is decorating it. So not only does it hold fewer people and take up less physical space, it limits your ability to decorate. Cool, there will be over 200 furnishings available, but you only get to have 70 of them in your house.

Edit: Its also possible you might not be able to fit all 70 items in a small house if you have lots of large items that take up too much space. Speculative, but still possibly even further restricted.

Billybones has a point though. As an FC youre supposed to work together and strive to have the best stuff. There is absolutely no satisfaction to be had with having the best at day 1. This goes back to that instant gratification thing people bring up all the time. You want to best, you want it to be reasonable, and you want it right now so you can go back to complaining about not having anything to work for (but secretly not wanting to work for anything)

My only complaint about the system is that while these prices are meant to stabilize every economy and bring them to about the same level, the hard 50% limit to the reduction ensures that it never happens, just because if server A and server B have roughly the same amount of gil, person A buys a house for 4mil, and person B still needs to come up with 40mil in the same economy. Thats where i take issue, its whatever now, but in the near future this is going to hurt legacy servers big time.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

Billybones has a point though. As an FC youre supposed to work together and strive to have the best stuff. There is absolutely no satisfaction to be had with having the best at day 1. This goes back to that instant gratification thing people bring up all the time. You want to best, you want it to be reasonable, and you want it right now so you can go back to complaining about not having anything to work for (but secretly not wanting to work for anything.

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Stop using this argument. Working together doesn't mean throwing all your gil in a FC bank until you have enough.

If they wanted us to work together they'd give everyone a piece of dirt land and tell them to use their DOH/DOL skills to build it from the bottom up.

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As an FC youre supposed to work together and strive to have the best stuff. There is absolutely no satisfaction to be had with having the best at day 1. This goes back to that instant gratification thing people bring up all the time. You want to best, you want it to be reasonable, and you want it right now so you can go back to complaining about not having anything to work for (but secretly not wanting to work for anything)

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Problem is, like Lexxuk says, a lot of people cant even afford the worst stuff even after farming for months.

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Originally Posted by Sayura_

Stop using this argument. Working together doesn't mean throwing all your gil in a FC bank until you have enough.

If they wanted us to work together they'd give everyone a piece of dirt land and tell them to use their DOH/DOL skills to build it from the bottom up.

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They also wouldn't turn it into a competition making the number of housing plots limited so that the RMT credit card kiddies can buy up all the land before anyone else has access to them.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

Billybones has a point though. As an FC youre supposed to work together and strive to have the best stuff. There is absolutely no satisfaction to be had with having the best at day 1. This goes back to that instant gratification thing people bring up all the time. You want to best, you want it to be reasonable, and you want it right now so you can go back to complaining about not having anything to work for (but secretly not wanting to work for anything)

My only complaint about the system is that while these prices are meant to stabilize every economy and bring them to about the same level, the hard 50% limit to the reduction ensures that it never happens, just because if server A and server B have roughly the same amount of gil, person A buys a house for 4mil, and person B still needs to come up with 40mil in the same economy. Thats where i take issue, its whatever now, but in the near future this is going to hurt legacy servers big time.

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WTF it's not the best, it's not even great. There is this thing call updates.

This is a patch with some stupid content decisions. Forget building airships and boats and workshops, and so on, you're not even going to get a land to start it with.

This is also bad economics. Again it'll cause a credit freeze. ya know the same one that totally destroyed half the world a few years back.

People need to spend to get economy moving, by creating a situation where no one wants to spend money, you have just "froze" the ability to buy and sell, thus creating collapse.

Since we have no borrowing and lending, it's not destruction, but the server will surely feel a red hot iron shoved where the sun don't shine for a while.

Wth.... did every FC JUST start farming for an FC yesterday? Everyone knew it was coming.... so many FCs were farming since launch.... hence he said they looked at FC (the data you and me cannot see) when making prices. You and all your FC members are supposed to work hard for this. The people that cared the most, and prepared way ahead of time. The rest who barely cared, will be able to buy it later. If youre serious about housing, why on earth would you only do daily farming for 20k..... makes no sense. If youre in a FC where you dont want to contribute much money to them, sounds like youre not in the right FC... Youre better off waiting for individual housing later.

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Originally Posted by Sayura_

Stop using this argument. Working together doesn't mean throwing all your gil in a FC bank until you have enough.

If they wanted us to work together they'd give everyone a piece of dirt land and tell them to use their DOH/DOL skills to build it from the bottom up.

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I think this is what really bothers me. We go from "85% of the house will be crafted and gathered working together with your FC" to, "before you can even start that process please count one hundred million ceiling tiles at the local walmarts in your area for 6 months, either by yourself or send your members to different wal marts to count alone until you have counted all 100 million".

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Originally Posted by RoninDarkchild

Wth.... did every FC JUST start farming for an FC yesterday? Everyone knew it was coming.... so many FCs were farming since launch.....

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Because everyone's FC formed right at launch..

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Originally Posted by Beeraga

I think this is what really bothers me. We go from "85% of the house will be crafted and gathered working together with your FC" to, "before you can even start that process please count one hundred million ceiling tiles at the local walmarts in your area for 6 months, either by yourself or send your members to different wal marts to count alone until you have counted all 100 million".

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It's call back tracking for white knights. It happens... a lot.

It's painfully obvious there's a issue is quite serious, how serious, we won't know till the 1st week is over.

We have been saving for a long long time. Then something 10x to 100x our income finally comes. It's a situation where you wipe everyone's gil for the FC in one night is not enough to afford it..

Forget pvp materia melding, and hair cuts. You're on bread and water for the next 3 months.

lol my only problem with it is donating money to a free company and having it die soon after probably the only thing that bugs me about this situation... the Cost means you have to join a free company not on the verge of dieing... which a lot of small ones are... o.O not wasting investment on something that will never survive to begin with gonna continue trying to save for Personal x_x/ have myself 40 mil before 2.2!~

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

It has been explained properly, it stays @ 50%.

And the system isn't pointless, it's a deliberate means of throttling housing take-up in the early days, clearly SE aren't sure their servers can take the load if many houses are created at the same time.

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This game saved Square Enix, from an expected loss FFXIV took them back into the realm of profitability, amazingly they are millions into the black....sooo one would think that they would be investing in making their customers happy, instead they are restricting content because they can't afford the investment in the hardware.....I have a hard time believing it

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Originally Posted by Sayura_

Because everyone's FC formed right at launch..

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Better get to farming!

This constant instant gratification argument is nonsense because I know my FC and several others have been saving up gil since housing was first announced. We saved up 3 million (small FC, less than 15 active members) hoping to get a house. Unfortunately we're on Excalibur, so if we wait for the price to drop in half we are less than a third of the way there.

On a happy note we've decided to scrub getting a house altogether and will spend the money on gear. So at least the gil will still be put to good use.

I have to say I was easily the most hyped for a FC house but the price really turned me off. I would never ask the rest of my FC to shell out that much work and gil for a clubhouse. Here's hoping we'll see a price drop for the smaller houses. If hardcore people want to have to work months for mansions they can do that instead.

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Originally Posted by RoninDarkchild

Better get to farming!

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Our small FC has been saving a portion of our resources for housing since launch, we saved in that time 2 million gil which we thought was a pretty good amount.

To be told we would need to farm for another 9 months to get the smallest cheapest plot of dirt without anything even on it yet, is quite simply insulting to a reasonable person that has no intention of making a game a second job.

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Originally Posted by Ispen

Count to ten and breathe, again like it or not 2k is a minority when you consider how many are playing now before you go sprouting that phrase which i'm sure most of you are using incorrectly i don't agree with the prices but getting your hopes up over 2k people liking a thread well your setting yourself up for disappointment.

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No you are quite wrong...a small minority post in these forums and it's over 2k of that small minority....you can not include the whole of the player base to support your point...logical fallacy and all that.

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Originally Posted by RoninDarkchild

Better get to farming!

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No thanks. I'm not going to waste my 8mil on a one bedroom or ask my 100 casual members to give me gil they don't have.

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Originally Posted by Scamperoo

No you are quite wrong...a small minority post in these forums and it's over 2k of that small minority....you can not include the whole of the player base to support your point...logical fallacy and all that.

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The fact that my friend who NEVER keeps up on the game and never comes to these forums knew today about the JP thread with the up voting really does say a lot. Even my friends who don't play anymore know about it and say its crazy! o.o

I am sure a lot of FC will start selling extreme mode run carries to get gil for their house.

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Originally Posted by Scamperoo

No you are quite wrong...a small minority post in these forums and it's over 2k of that small minority....you can not include the whole of the player base to support your point...logical fallacy and all that.

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Have you ever run statistics? How about exit polls? Or polls where a company asks a few thousand people for their opinion and extrapolates a percentage based on the small base they use? It's simple really. We don't have 1,500,000 people on the forum to express an opinion, we can do that with 1,500. If 1,000 of those say "Well, that's pretty good" and 500 say "Well, that sucks" then we know that 2/3rd of the playerbase are happy.

Now, we have 2,000+ players who have voted dissent, if you can find a post which has more than 2,000+ up votes stating "Hell yeah these prices make me hawt" then you will be able to show that the majority of the user base is happy with paying 40,000,000 for a shoebox.

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Originally Posted by Beeraga

Our small FC has been saving a portion of our resources for housing since launch, we saved in that time 2 million gil which we thought was a pretty good amount.

To be told we would need to farm for another 9 months to get the smallest cheapest plot of dirt without anything even on it yet, is quite simply insulting to a reasonable person that has no intention of making a game a second job.

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Housing is an investment. It does not hinder you to be without it, it only gives you something to work towards. Every week(?), prices drop on land that has not been purchased.

I think it's safe to assume that with the increase in gil rewards from combat leves, daily quests, new content, and having an actual amount of gil to aim for, that 9 month predicted wait is going to drop SIGNIFICANTLY. And mind you, this is ignoring the significant price drops as time goes on.

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Originally Posted by Lexxuk

Have you ever run statistics? How about exit polls? Or polls where a company asks a few thousand people for their opinion and extrapolates a percentage based on the small base they use? It's simple really. We don't have 1,500,000 people on the forum to express an opinion, we can do that with 1,500. If 1,000 of those say "Well, that's pretty good" and 500 say "Well, that sucks" then we know that 2/3rd of the playerbase are happy.

Now, we have 2,000+ players who have voted dissent, if you can find a post which has more than 2,000+ up votes stating "Hell yeah these prices make me hawt" then you will be able to show that the majority of the user base is happy with paying 40,000,000 for a shoebox.

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The forums attract a certain kind of player which most likely does not mirror the total population that plays the game.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

The forums attract a certain kind of player which most likely does not mirror the total population that plays the game.

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Considering that housing was one of Yoshi's selling points of this game and only a fraction of the player base will have one for their free company.. it's safe to say most free company players are probably unhappy.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Housing is an investment. It does not hinder you to be without it, it only gives you something to work towards. Every week(?), prices drop on land that has not been purchased.

I think it's safe to assume that with the increase in gil rewards from combat leves, daily quests, new content, and having an actual amount of gil to aim for, that 9 month predicted wait is going to drop SIGNIFICANTLY. And mind you, this is ignoring the significant price drops as time goes on.

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The lowest house pricing will drop is by 50%. Also how many plots of land will still be around 3 months? Let alone 9?

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Originally Posted by Zumi

The forums attract a certain kind of player which most likely does not mirror the total population that plays the game.

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So true, against your argument. Since this is about money, you assume the official forums will have the majority of active members, which the majority will hold the majority of wealth.

For the rest of the no-show, you expect them to be even more angry because their gil would be even less.

The weekend player in my FC are sitting on roughly 200k gil, about 1/10 if not more of people here. That means if it makes us howl, it makes them impale.

At least try to be logical.

I'm disappointed with the housing Prices.. why are you making it so hard to obtain, YoshiP =/

i was looking forward to it, not anymore if i'm being honest, sigh.

I am not really upset over housing myself. I was not into decorating my mog house in FFXI. If it was cheaper sure I would buy it, but given the high prices I wouldn't even bother with it because its just a vanity item that has little use for me.

Let people who want a house grind the gil out.

Everyone who keeps telling us to work for it, that it's a long term investment, I sincerely hope that ALL of you are posting the same damn thing in the CT loot lock out threads.......

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Housing is an investment. It does not hinder you to be without it, it only gives you something to work towards. Every week(?), prices drop on land that has not been purchased.

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An investment assumes a return, where is the return on cosmetic content? You just said it doesn't hinder you not having it (ie-it likewise does you no good at least at launch), so why is the cost so insanely high?

Also, the cost depreciation is capped at 50% of the starting cost.

If there is any investment in the land, then for me it will be on the future return of decorating the house. A small house can only hold 70 total items, medium is 130, and large is 240. So, the only way to have an unrestricted path to fully realize the dream fun house our FC was so looking forward to, is to first farm up a minimum of 50 million gil. I can't imagine anything less fun to look forward to than that.

There's no need to guess about what a small house looks like. It's been shown in Letter LIVE videos. See the video here (starting at 1:26:30). It looks about 150% the size of an inn room, and could hold 10-15 people relatively comfortably. Creating the house and exterior is shown before that, at 1:17:40.