Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

@Nezacant- I came across it on Google and IMO it's still a problem with the game, there needs to be more we can relate to when it comes to FFXI and the old FFXIV 1.0.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadex

This is Eorzea Canday Land and we just have to deal with it or go to other games.

---

Sucks but that just about sums it up, sucks even more for players who enjoyed the old mechanics and dislike WoW's mechanics guess we don't have a game to go to anymore because the game we chose for 10years+ has been changed to be the same as all the others now.

Final Fantasy was the only different MMO that existed but now that it's no longer different and no longer original I guess I'll have to wait till some genius company comes up with a new orrigonal style of MMO thats nothing like the others and nothing like WoW.

When people say its all grind they need to realize what people want when asking for something similar to XI isn't grind, its the mechanics and depth the game had. Just posting that since so many people use that mind numbing argument. Would have loved something similar to XI. This will hold me until something better, and something better will come cause it won't be that hard.

Some of the end game boss battles can be fun but its all dodging and spamming your one rotation. Very little situational events.

Uh, FFXIV 1.0 tanked hard. Even if it aimed to your old-school MMO sensitivities, it was a bad, bad game and it was rightfully panned for that. SE had to publically apologize for it. Even if you think ARR is worse in every way, remember you are a minority, and both the critics and the general public agree that ARR is the better game. Can the game improve? Of course. Does it need to cater more to this old, hardcore minority? Hell no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Battlewrench

When people say its all grind they need to realize what people want when asking for something similar to XI isn't grind, its the mechanics and depth the game had. Just posting that since so many people use that mind numbing argument. Would have loved something similar to XI. This will hold me until something better, and something better will come cause it won't be that hard.

---

It sucks but I played FFXI for 9 years and FFXIV 1.0 for 2 years, was kind of always hoping to be around to see my fav style of MMO grow, we will never see that happen now because it has been murdered with this game.

Even our all time fav game FFXI will eventually become nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mega_Man_U

Uh, FFXIV 1.0 tanked hard. Even if it aimed to your old-school MMO sensitivities, it was a bad, bad game and it was rightfully panned for that. SE had to publically apologize for it. Even if you think ARR is worse in every way, remember you are a minority, and both the critics and the general public agree that ARR is the better game. Can the game improve? Of course. Does it need to cater more to this old, hardcore minority? Hell no.

---

Lots of what us older minority want are things that would greatly benefit new comers also, why hold the game back from furthering it's potential?
The game is lacking alot of diversity and the world itself is very empty aside from random fates and meaningless quests.

As for 1.0 that game wasn't a bad game really just that the majority weren't even able to run it, the game itself when it started out was lacking a massive amount of content as well, later in it's later stages about 1.23 it had a fair share of content all of which was changeling and socially interactive.

If SE put in as much effort at building ontop of 1.23 as they did remaking the game from the ground up the end product would have been far more superior to ARR, without a doubt. Not to mention the fact that in the time it took for them to change there entire game to be easier to run on low end PC's, PC specs have risen massively since and our high end pc's back then are considered to be low end these days.

I'd like to see more engaging content. I had high hopes for fates, but they are very disappointing zerg fests. I miss NM's, not ground 1 spawn per every 24 hour camp fest nm's, but small nms like leaping lizzy and stray mary, something that gave you a chance at a cool reward if you put the effort in.

Something I miss about 11 that I know they are trying to avoid in 14 is like the penultimate best in slot item for a job. Items like scorpion harnesses, Huabergeons, ebows, byakkos haidate, leaping boots, emperor's hairpins, all these items came from NM's and offered significant boosts. These items weren't required (but showing up to an xp pt without a SH or a Hauby for your respective jobs was usually frowned upon) but they did offer a great boost and gave you something to look forward to. Right now for me there is no lasing gear, nothing I look forward to, nothing I want to level another job for. I think the biggest disappointment for me is the fact that all the gear is pretty much the same, same stats, why do I want to try to get allagan if I can get the same gear with two stat flipflops from my tomes? The incentive to farm coil for better gear just isn't there for me, the only thing appealing is a weapon, but there is still not many groups clearing t5. Were on t4 farm status but have yet to really begin trying to progress through t5. The carrot on the stick they are dangling isn't very appetizing, especially since they have pretty much excluded 90% of the community on their one biggest feature, housing. Everyone get excited for housing to be released they said, only to be disappointed with the gigantic price tags associated with it. I do think you should have to work hard and grind for good gear/ special shinies, but I had no idea housing would be so astronomically expensive. The FC I'm in on Balmung each one of the 12 or so players that are active have a good amount of gil to our names, but no where near whats needed to buy land plot and a house. I am disappointed.

The grind aspect of XI was also self-inflicted I am sorry to bust some bubbles. I played XI for years and never felt like I was grinding because I actually did stuff in the game aside from Valkurm to Qufim to Khazam to Abyssea... Players 'chose' to grind and that is their fault. There was so much else to do in that game if people would just step off the beaten path for two seconds. One cannot hit themselves in the face with a bat over and over and then blame the manufacturer of the bat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadex

The grind aspect of XI was also self-inflicted I am sorry to bust some bubbles. I played XI for years and never felt like I was grinding because I actually did stuff in the game aside from Valkurm to Qufim to Khazam to Abyssea... Players 'chose' to grind and that is their fault. There was so much else to do in that game if people would just step off the beaten path for two seconds. One cannot hit themselves in the face with a bat over and over and then blame the manufacturer of the bat.

---

I'd like to know exactly what you did, especially pre abyssea to get to level cap. You pretty much had to grind. I'm very interested, please don't disappoint.

Omg any Final Fan should love to grind anyway, thats what all the games were like. I FRIKKEN LOVE TO GRIND EXP!, Give me a grind party over fates any day of the week!! I already had maxed all my jobs in 1.0 to 50 befor ARR came out I grinded them all out way faster than people level in fates now, and don't tell me fates don't feel like grinding coz it basicly is a grind fest still except it's done in fates.

The problems I have with fates tho are this.
-Party system has social benefits you don't get from the fate system, I have soo many long lasting awesome memory's from partying in XI and XIV-1.0, meeting new people it was great fun.
- In ARR you basically jump from fate to fate, no one talks, your not interacting with anyone, you don't need strategies to take down mobs you don't need to work together you just spam till everything is dead then run to the next one it's lame as shit.

I don't know about you but partying never felt like a grind for me because I was always having fun with others, fates and dungeons feel like more of a grind fest than XI ever did, because it's not anywhere near as enjoyable or interactive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vandark

1.0 and FFXI had something massive in common, a sense of adventure. In FFXIV ARR I feel 0.. ZERO! sense of adventure, it bores me to death at times.

---

You can make an argument out of FFXI, because how it presented content was successful for it's time. I will call you out on 1.xx however. There was absolutely no sense of adventure in that game whatsoever. All you did was grab a guildleve from a main city, then go out to said spot, and do the same 5-6 guildleves in that camp over and over till you got to lv.50. Then you did more guildleves again with "occasional" main scenario plot. There was no open world sense of adventure either since every spot looked the same going only 1-2 minutes into the field. There was no unique place to go and little to no reward at all for taking the time to explore. You only had a few NM's in the world and they took no effort to take down.

What FFXIV: ARR did right and kind of FFXI also was that they separated zones and made it look unique compared to another against 1.xx's seamless world system. ARR made a purpose out of each part of an area. Rather if it is for questing, FATE, guildleves, etc. It helps bring it out and make it feel alive. There are a lot of times where I decide to save my money on teleportation because the areas and scenery are beautiful to look at while I am getting to my destination. 1.xx had the same landscape the whole way through and got repetitive and boring very quick. Not to mention anywhere unique looking was empty and not worth a visit after getting through a bunch of lv.99 enemies.

This was one of 1.xx's biggest faults acknowledged by most of the community, reviewers, and the developers themselves. I don't see how you look at it that way, but to each their own I suppose.

Also, the community here is no worse than it was in FFXI/1.xx.

@Velhart -> While I agree that FFXIV has never had as much sense of adventure as XI even in the old 1.0-1.23, if you went out of your way to explore in the old FFXIV there was tuns of adventure.

I would go out and discover all kinds of awsome things most people didn't even think about because they were too busy grinding out there leaves.
Well in 1.0 I didn't bother grinding out leaves to level I would make grind partys and find awesome camps and played it very much the same way as you would play FFXI, jumping from camp to camp I leveled all my jobs to 50 that way except for my first class GLD I leveled that doing Leaves and Behest... man was that a chore, never again.. NEVER AGAIN! lol

Most people didn't know all the ins and outs of the old game, they saw leaves as a major grind but didn't stop to think about alternatives.

Other reasons for exploring in the old game, farming camps, gathering spots, fishing spots all of which had more purpose in the old game.

------------------------

By the way I was all for zones back in 1.23 the bland look of the world was one of my issues too and the major server lag issues, but after going from an open world back to zones I can't help but notice that the open world was much larger and over all kind of better really in alot of ways.
It felt more like you were in a world and not just playing a game, it was closer to a simulation than a game it was actually bad ass how everything was connected the realism was impressive.

Here is the thing, yes we have zones but the size of the world over all is alot smaller and they eliminated all the caves and underground areas to explore so there is a whole other world that wasn't even on the surface of the other game that no longer exists. Yes the areas look flashy and no longer lag but why did that have to come at the price of half the worlds size and an open environment, it's a shame that it wasn't possible to have the best of both worlds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadrojj

I'd like to know exactly what you did, especially pre abyssea to get to level cap. You pretty much had to grind. I'm very interested, please don't disappoint.

---

We did lots of stuff. We really enjoyed playing a large part in the Campaign and would move around the map helping to flip them to our nation to open stores. We would be constantly helping other members of the LS with story missions, get items, hunting NMs, we did Assaults. Often we would just wander zones hunting rather than simply sit in one spot and have some poor sod <<fishing>> for us. When one introduces variety the feeling of grind lessens greatly. Often we would get a level ding and be surprised by it because we weren't even watching for it. It was nice. Once Square introduced the Abbysea WoW Train most of us left as for far too many it became all about that because it was easy so we moved on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vandark

@Velhart -> While I agree that FFXIV has never had as much sense of adventure as XI even in the old 1.0-1.23, if you went out of your way to explore in the old FFXIV there was tuns of adventure.

I would go out and discover all kinds of awsome things most people didn't even think about because they were too busy grinding out there leaves.
Well in 1.0 I didn't bother grinding out leaves to level I would make grind partys and find awesome camps and played it very much the same way as you would play FFXI, jumping from camp to camp I leveled all my jobs to 50 that way except for my first class GLD I leveled that doing Leaves and Behest... man was that a chore, never again.. NEVER AGAIN! lol

Most people didn't know all the ins and outs of the old game, they saw leaves as a major grind but didn't stop to think about alternatives.

Another reasons for exploring in the old game, farming camps, gathering spots, fishing spots all of which had more purpose in the old game.

---

I went to the aetherytes and went through almost every small part of 1.xx and....no. Grinding parties are pretty awful also. I didn't like it in 2003 when FFXI came out here. I didn't like grinding when I quit in 2010. I didn't like to grind both EXP and SP in FFXIV. For crying out loud you had to level your class like you did with weapon skills from FFXI. Who's bright idea was that? FFXI looking at it retrospectively I can give a pass only because of it being in the early days of MMO's and it's technical limitations. It was no excuse for 1.xx. Sure you can make the argument that grind is in every MMO, but 1.xx put no effort at all to cleverly disguise it with fun content. ARR however uses things such as quests, FATE's, and dungeons to help disguise this. Making sure you simply are not sitting in one corner and killing the same mob all day. I can't understand by today's standards why you find that fun at all. It is one of the biggest pace breakers you can put into MMO's today.

Quests give good bits of lore, FATE's offer small to large scale engaging fights that are fun (sure it needs tweaks, but the system itself is solid), dungeons offer mechanics and boss fights that keep you on your toes, hunting log to influence you to explore certain areas to find mobs. All this is happening while you are gaining EXP. Let me ask, how often did you grind where you found other attractions around your room for entertainment? I know to endure the long grinds I had my TV on. Hell, depending on the job, I sit there and cast whats necessary while playing another game. Please do not convince me that pure grind is the way to go, you are very much the minority in that one. Is the system perfect in ARR? No, I have fair share of complaints myself, but the overall system is solid and the variety of options to not only entertain you, but be productive at the same time. It actually feels like an experience and not a chore.

Also, please don't credit Final Fantasy too much on going out of their way or being original. Even Final Fantasy 1 was just Dragon Quest with it's own take on it. Even admitted they drew inspiration straight from DQ to make the game. What does set Final Fantasy apart is how it approaches familiar systems. Things like the job system, or the ATB gauge system. These were features added to a formula done to death by the JRPG industry. Final Fantasy has always been known for it's presentation, story telling, and interesting takes on an existing system for better or worse. FFXI itself drew inspiration straight from Everquest. If you played both, you could easily point out similarities between the two. 1.xx's biggest fault was not catering to a global standard and tried to hard to be it's own thing, ending up shooting themselves in the foot. ARR takes what works, puts their own take on it with the Armory System and presentation that rivals WoW itself.

You can hate on it all you want, and you are completely entitled to your opinion, but ARR is successful, it isn't going anywhere, and you are welcome to go back to FFXI and grind to your heart's content if that is what you truly desire. ARR is it's own thing, it clearly is liked by the majority of players, and I am extremely doubtful newcomers today would cater to an MMO lifestyle where you have to dedicate hours and hours of your time to get the slightest thing done.

But I am just hitting a brick wall with a wiffle bat in this thread, boredom will do that.

Massive Multiplayer Online game were designed at the beginning to have massive hurls to overcome to be able to progress to the higher tiers were you have a better sense of accomplishments for achieving it. Know and day's most mmo are spoon feed for a cheap thrill for an instant gratification crowd to then move on to the next spoon feed mmo that comes out. The excuse of not having enough time to play is bs it falls on your time management skill if your with people with somewhat the same time schedule plan out on what night to complete a particular content.

I'll use CoP as an example before the nerf to it I had a static group that I found by /shout method they had the same time schedule as me one person semi different but was workable. We planned out then schedule dates to do each piece of that content ie farm certain items we needed and sometimes that was it for that night and continue until the next day to fight the boss or complete the quest as a group and sometimes had to level a different job to benefit the party for certain bosses we did that together sometimes also. I then put down the controller/keyboard because it's a game eventually me and my group complete CoP yea took awhile longer than most people but I had a great sense of accomplishment do to it felt earned not handed to but that my opinion im sure other's have simular experiences.

I never got bored of XP parties in FFXI. Sure some were god-awful but that was all part of the charm. I've met many good friends on FFXI in simple pick up parties that lasted hours, something that will never happen in FFXIV. I played FFXI for 8 years and never got tired of it. Sure it had it's fair share of problems but no other MMO i've played has ever come close to the camaraderie in that game. Sadly SE is just cashing in on what the majority of people want in their MMO's now, instant gratification with minimal work required. The only thing that's giving me any sense of real accomplishment in ARR was when I finally beat Titan HM, which is kinda sad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

For crying out loud you had to level your class like you did with weapon skills from FFXI. Who's bright idea was that?

---

Wait, what? Do you mean 1.1 or something, rather than 1.23? Because I can't even remember when I had to level in such a way - it was all about the hit something, let some other L50 person kill it, reap rewards strategy for me up to L30, then it was a quick stint up to L50. It was insanely easy to level to 50 in 1.x, far faster than it is in ARR. By a really, really long way. You could hit L50 in a day or two if you felt like it.

EDIT: Not taking either side, just saw that and raised an eyebrow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Loony_BoB

Wait, what? Do you mean 1.1 or something, rather than 1.23? Because I can't even remember when I had to level in such a way - it was all about the hit something, let some other L50 person kill it, reap rewards strategy for me up to L30, then it was a quick stint up to L50. It was insanely easy to level to 50 in 1.x, far faster than it is in ARR. By a really, really long way. You could hit L50 in a day or two if you felt like it.

EDIT: Not taking either side, just saw that and raised an eyebrow.

---

1.0 had two totally separate exp sets for players, they had the over all character level and then the class level, it was a... Rather ludicrous system to be honest, and a royal pain in the ass for levelling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Loony_BoB

Wait, what? Do you mean 1.1 or something, rather than 1.23? Because I can't even remember when I had to level in such a way - it was all about the hit something, let some other L50 person kill it, reap rewards strategy for me up to L30, then it was a quick stint up to L50. It was insanely easy to level to 50 in 1.x, far faster than it is in ARR. By a really, really long way. You could hit L50 in a day or two if you felt like it.

EDIT: Not taking either side, just saw that and raised an eyebrow.

---

Before the new team came in and changed things: How the game originally worked was you had an overall physical level that leveled through EXP, and you had class levels which leveled through SP. Instead of getting set EXP/SP after battle. You would get it through RNG, in which you had to keep hitting a mob and "luckily" gain something from it. It was possible for one party member to get 400EXP/100SP from one mob and you zero. It was beyond tedious and frustrating as a system. When the new team came in, they changed it so mobs dropped a set EXP/SP per fight. Eventually physical levels were dropped all together and levels were done through the class levels and changed it from SP to EXP, which overall was a much better system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

Before the new team came in and changed things: How the game originally worked was you had an overall physical level that leveled through EXP, and you had class levels which leveled through SP. Instead of getting set EXP/SP after battle. You would get it through RNG, in which you had to keep hitting a mob and "luckily" gain something from it. It was possible for one party member to get 400EXP/100SP from one mob and you zero. It was beyond tedious and frustrating as a system. When the new team came in, they changed it so mobs dropped a set EXP/SP per fight. Eventually physical levels were dropped all together and levels were done through the class levels and changed it from SP to EXP, which overall was a much better system.

---

I remember my LS grouping up and killing like 30 things, and only half of us got any exp/sp >.< Seriously, stupidest system EVER.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

Before the new team came in and changed things: How the game originally worked was you had an overall physical level that leveled through EXP, and you had class levels which leveled through SP. Instead of getting set EXP/SP after battle. You would get it through RNG, in which you had to keep hitting a mob and "luckily" gain something from it. It was possible for one party member to get 400EXP/100SP from one mob and you zero. It was beyond tedious and frustrating as a system. When the new team came in, they changed it so mobs dropped a set EXP/SP per fight. Eventually physical levels were dropped all together and levels were done through the class levels and changed it from SP to EXP, which overall was a much better system.

---

Ah. I think when people talk about the old game, they are generally referring to 1.23, not 1.0 launch... best to assume as such, I'd say. :)

I sympathize with the OP. I don't like these new trends in MMO design either. And the fault can be laid at the feet of the social media crowd. They came into dominance with the advent of face book and other such online activities. And they have successfully taken over this genre and twisted it to their liking.

In short: MMORPGs are not RPG games. They are just fantasy-themed face books with mini-games attached to it that players have the option to participate in with others if they desire. That is where this whole concept of a theme-park MMORPG comes from. It's intended to just provide a social atmosphere with rides scattered about the place players can jump on if they want. But gone are the days of having an actual world where players from groups to explore.

I don't like it either. But like it or not, that's what they have turned into. They are not RPG/adventure games any longer. They are theme parks.

I agree with the op. I played FFXI a few months back and there's a lot of stuff that I don't want back in the game, but at the same time there's a lot of good stuff that the dev team is missing, Dynamis gave you the chance to take your time and complete a full zone/city the way you wanted it, open world dungeons gave the chance to meet other players and farm NM's, the biggest problem that I see in this game is that gear doesn't last long enough, you don't find that rare piece of gear from a hard NM or that ingredient to craft a rare piece of gear or weapon, everything is easily obtained and theres no difference in playstyles only following the same rotations proved and teached by others over and over again, when this game started promised a lot of stuff like cross classing differently from others and making your class unique, I would like to see more of that but balanced, even WoW gives you a chance to choose from 3 skill trees.

damn would love a zone like sky/sea in FFXIV, favorite zones in FFXI hands down.

These are all good options, FFXI is a good game with the first AH and a lot of cool and innovative features that didn't get seen because it took ten hours to do any of it. You also couldn't jump. There were a lot of 2 inch high obstacles. FFXIV ARR fixed the tedious non jumping crap, kept the cool CS stuff from FFXI, the solid art from the FF team, and added the jobs back that people were familiar with and liked. Bring back more stuff people liked from FFXI. Blue Mage (PLEASE GOD) and other jobs. Items with cool effects. Some modicum of danger. Keep the tedious 2 hour walks through an unnecessary labyrinth and 1,000,000 fish turn in crap the hell away. Too bad about housing though 650 million gil, good god.

I really enjoy the game, and I have faith that the developers are going to continually improve it, after all, if they don't, people will walk. ESO is coming out in a few months, so there is always something else to jump to for a bit, then come back later. I did it with XI and WoW for several years. Or just take a break, and keep an eye out on new developments. Ive only played a couple of MMO's, so im not sure if there are ones that cater to folks with too much time on their hands and want to have massive timesinks, trust me, if I could have that kind of life, Id happily take it. But like so many others, I have other obligations that limit my gaming badly. Not judging the hardcores, just really really jealous...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ufufu

This again? FFXI sucked, let's move past it.

---

FFXI didn't suck and the original poster has a very good point!. There was some great stuff in XI that they could add to XIV. More open world content!. Things like Sky, Sea, Limbus & Dynamis were great. I also like the raids and instanced dungeons from XIV. What's wrong with having a bit off both?. For this game to survive they seriously going to have to consider adding stuff like this!.

I'll add my own two cents to this: No. I hated how the focus of FFXI was always at the top. People say that Vanilla FFXI was different than WoW, but I disagree. I played FFXI before WoW, and when I finally DID make the transition, I noticed some similar carryovers:

-People didn't care about your appreciation for old, low level content; they would rather steamroll you through it to expedite your ability to slave for them in Sky/Sea/Limbus/Dynamis/Salvage/etc.
-Everyone and their mother who was considered worth carrying about was located in Aht Urhgan/Dalaran. If you weren't tough enough to be there, you weren't tough enough to have a say in whatever you could do or deemed fun.
-You were required to have X item at X point in the game to be considered worthy to even grace the gods of leveling with your presence. If you didn't have proper setups/gear, you were considered inferior quality and quickly discarded for the person that DID have them (the biggest offender of this in FFXI being Ninja and their godsdamned Utsusemi: Ichi).
-The only story that people actually gave two fucks about helping you "enjoy" was the Promathia content. That's it. Beyond that, nobody gave a rat's ass about any other part of XI's story (though to be fair, nobody really cared about story in WoW either - their only ideal was beating Ensidia to world firsts)

So to summarize quite nicely: FFXIV and WoW are not similar. If anything, FFXI and WoW are similar in their "sell your souls and lives for power, and pray you're a tough enough dude to take insults from 13-year olds", and thus are not games I'd like to see emulated. Ever again.

P.S. The summarization of my FFXI and WoW experiences were based on the state during semi-early ToAU and mid-to-late WotLK, respectively. So before anyone accuses me of not having played during a proper "hardcore" era, this should make you stop and think.

Okay, I'm going completely out on a limb here, but what if Square Enix started coming up with original creative ideas for content instead of basing their design off one game or another?

Granted, so far, XIV has no original content to speak of (it's pretty much all content from other games that Square Enix has tried to adapt to their world), but I think it would be interesting if the development team tried that approach.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sovereign

Okay, I'm going completely out on a limb here, but what if Square Enix started coming up with original creative ideas for content instead of basing their design off one game or another?

Granted, so far, XIV has no original content to speak of (it's pretty much all content from other games that Square Enix has tried to adapt to their world), but I think it would be interesting if the development team tried that approach.

---

Can you give an example about a content that was never done in another game before in some way?

FFXIV 1.0 had gear with lasting power and it had addtional effects & enhances "skill", now in ARR we have wow stats & gameplay.

FFXI had party & teamwork 1 mob fight any more could result in death, FFXIV party is a zerg fest & dodge aoe you can pull the whole area in one go.

FFXI didnt have gear check in there fights if you were good enough you could solo mobs naked. in ARR you have to have gear other wise you cant win no matter how good you are.

FFXI had lockouts no longer then 3 days & gave you access to as much loot as you wanted housing was free, ARR has week lockouts & a 3 month housing timer.

FFXI crafting ment something people ran the economy, ARR crafting is useless just like 99% of the other mmo's and NPC's run the economy.

FFXI lots content required items each time to do it, FFXIV you use DF.

ARR is even more archaic & grindy then FFXI.

this got bumped again?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by indira

FFXI crafting ment something people ran the economy, ARR crafting is useless just like 99% of the other mmo's and NPC's run the economy.

FFXI lots content required items each time to do it, FFXIV you use DF.

ARR is even more archaic & grindy then FFXI.

---

Thank god those greedy FFXI crafters do not run this economy. We would all be shoving out 500,000 for a lvl 10 item. FFXI had lots to do and look how many expansions it has and even on NA release it had an expansion with it so please do not use that lame argument. ARR more grindy? LOL I mean LOL

How about?

http://img.pandawhale.com/49264-Nope-gif-bq76.gif

This game is fine, I got alot more friends playing this then FFXI

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuichi

Thank god those greedy FFXI crafters do not run this economy. We would all be shoving out 500,000 for a lvl 10 item. FFXI had lots to do and look how many expansions it has and even on NA release it had an expansion with it so please do not use that lame argument. ARR more grindy? LOL I mean LOL

---

what economy in FFXIV?? there isnt one.
FFXI you have gear that can last till lv cap you can get your money back too, FFXIV you have to re-gear every 5 levels & ALL gear is free.

ARR is more grindy, spaming fate aint grinding? its even worse since you have to sit and wait you need more XP per level in ffxiv and get the same amount of XP per kill as FFXI.
SE locks you out of content for a week is less archaic?
the world is tiny and empty, FFXIV 1.0 had way more mobs roaming around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

How about?


This game is fine, I got alot more friends playing this then FFXI

---

more people play WOW and theres even more MMO's with a user base that kills wow.
so now whats your point? you saying 11 & 14 suck?

They could stand to take a few more things from WoW, honestly.

The Fans of FFXI obious will defend FFXI and the FANS of WOW will defend the Casual Systems.

FFXI was the hardest, challenging, time consuming, grindy MMRPG i have played.

Speaking about FFXI LV 75 era.

1.- In FFXI you had Farm/Craft everyday just for make "Gils" for your consumables, Food/Oils/Prims, or gear for your job, for accomplish this every day a Great Mental Strength was needed.

2.- The end game content was exclusive for Hardcore players. This end game Linkshells forced you things lke this.

a) You need have a DPS/TANK/Support job leveled for to be allowed "Apply"
b) This end game linkshells Ran events. Sunday - Thursday 4 - 5 hours per day and they ask for a mandatory 75% attendence or you are Out
c) You was requested for camp HNM, with timers over 24 earth hours. Sometimes you had competition of 50 players for claim a HNM.
d) For to be allowed play as DPS in this Groups. The leaders parsed you vs their static DPS. Using equal buffs and after a reasonable amount parses if you cant KEEP up with they then you never was allowed use you DPS class even if you was a Relic/Mythic Holder.

This kind of things happen all time in FFXI. Maybe is the reason for FFXI Fans ask for "Challenges" and find ARR a very Casual Game.

The players came from WOW/AION/TERA, or probably ARR is their first MMRPG. Dont like the idea of have "Hard mode 24/7". WOW was the alternative for the people were getting tired of FFXI and moved a more Friendly and Casual MMRPG.

I played FFXI and WOW several years. For me WOW was always a "Picnic" and Relaxing auto pilot mode. Compared with the Hell i had Live dealing with FFXI Years.

If i had to pay for my Sins.... I did that in FFXI...

WoW was the First foray into making a game more accesable for the Everyman for MMOs.

The results speak for themselves. They lost more subs than most games ever get as a sub base and still over double the next biggest MMORPG sub base.


And I still Chuckle at people who claim WoW is all casual. A large glut of it is, but there exists in WoW systems and challenges that far outpace anything FF XIV has currently to offer in the way of difficulty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ahzarhuuk

WoW was the First foray into making a game more accesable for the Everyman for MMOs.

The results speak for themselves. They lost more subs than most games ever get as a sub base and still over double the next biggest MMORPG sub base.


And I still Chuckle at people who claim WoW is all casual. A large glut of it is, but there exists in WoW systems and challenges that far outpace anything FF XIV has currently to offer in the way of difficulty.

---

I actually find content in WoW more difficult than anything FFXI/XIV has dished out. Heroic modes of raids in their prime are truly teeth pulling while most of the time being very balanced fights. I loved FFXI, but the hardest things it dished out were Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden. Even then, those fights were difficult mostly to how ridiculous their design was.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuichi

Thank god those greedy FFXI crafters do not run this economy.

---

Crafters are still as greedy as ever in FFXIV. The economy is already ruined as well. Everyone has multiple 50 craft classes trying to undercut each other like crazy. You have to undercut your items every hour just to get it to sell most of the time.

Still guys they could take the good things XI had to offer and put a new spin on them without makeing them as insainly difficult or hardcore as they used to be.

For example NM's in FFXIV had a re-spawn time of about 5-10mins VS FFXI where the spawn times were a crazy 24hours or more for some monsters.

They can reuse some of the same awesome content and recreate it better for F14, honestly alot of you just don't have open minds. How awsome would it be to have exclusive areas for people who prefure the partying system over fate system, how awsome would it be if people could gear there characters takeing out NM's rather than doing dungeons.

It's about options, people like a verity of things to do and the serious lack of verity right now is killing FF14 for me.
In FFXI you had options, NM's, Dynamis, Sky, Sea, Zinny NM's, Story based equipment that would last forever because it was special gear you could only obtain threw the main story, assault, BCNM's (Chalangeing boss rights and set up battles), Coffer chests and so much more.

In FF14 you have, dungeons and fates your relic quest, pvp and crafting.. thats about it.
We sure could use some alternative methods of obtaining gear that don't involve just a new dungeon or a new PvP fight..
BOREING! No one wants to spam the same content, seriously.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vandark

-snip-

---

Dyanmis wasn't in 11 at launch.
Sky was Zilart Expansion
Sea was CoP
Salvage was ToAU

1 End game thing came out really per expansion for 11. As for that story based equipment most of it was still junk you easily replaced by 65 minus one piece like the RDM hat. Others you might macro in for some occasion like monks boost other than that you would use something like the O.Kote still. In over all terms right now where 14 is, it's about on par with NA release of 11 which included Zilart.