7.5 MSQ [SPOILERS]

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Originally Posted by SkankyRoe

The Eight Umbral Calamity was set up to be a calamity of light all the way back in ARR patches with Thordan, but his defeat(and the incorrect triggering of the Flood of Light) messed everything up which is why Elidibus stepped in and tried to fast-track the rejoining by bringing the Warriors of Darkness to the Source. I expect Elidibus only set his sights on Black Rose as a calamity trigger once Zenos's body became available after he committed suicide.

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Since when was thordan ever supposed to trigger the calamity of light. Light is stasis, nothing about thordan’s plans implied it would prep the world for stasis

Ardbert was too good at being a WOL and triggered the flood of light too early, minfillia is the only reason why the first was saved at all

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Originally Posted by SkankyRoe

There's a few details that more or less confirm that the source no longer needs prepping for a calamity; the ascians only needed one more calamity to essentially win, which implies that more efficient methods would have opened up eliminating the need for further calamities.

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To be honest, I kind of assumed that the 8th one would tug the rest in due to there being a majority, but it doesn't seem everyone else interpreted it that way. Sort of like how if all the weight is on one end of a scale, and you put a slight majority on the other end of the scale, it'll tip to the other side and it'll all slide to the other side.

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We also know that Azem's key can, at least post-Hydaelyn's death, rejoin entire regions of a shard to the source without need of a prepped calamity.

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It didn't seem Halmarut was considering that though. They seem to be acting like a rejoining is necessary despite having witnessed an event that avoids the need for one, with the merging of part of the Ninth into the Source. It is quite strange that they have witnessed this yet are plugging their ears over it and continuing their course.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Since when was thordan ever supposed to trigger the calamity of light. Light is stasis, nothing about thordan’s plans implied it would prep the world for stasis

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The context clues are all there. Thordan's entire ideals are 100% aligned with statis; conserving the status quo and upholding the 1000-year tradition, keeping things as they are and standing against change. And I don't think it's a coincidence that ascian machinations led to a light-elemental primal(King Thordan) being summoned at about the same time as the First was being prepped for a Light-aligned rejoining.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Ardbert was too good at being a WOL and triggered the flood of light too early, minfillia is the only reason why the first was saved at all

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II don't think that's the case, all signs point to "elemental floods" being something that the ascians very much do not intend to trigger; recall that it was specifically the Contramemoria that served as the prepping for a darkness rejoining and the Flood of Darkness was an unforseen, unintended result that messed up their plans. It can be surmised then that Ardbert's triggering of the Flood of Light was also unforseen and unintended, which may also be why Lahabrea and Igeyorhm gave it their all to take us out in the ARF, they knew time was running short and we were about to eliminate the necessary trigger on the Source.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It didn't seem Halmarut was considering that though. They seem to be acting like a rejoining is necessary despite having witnessed an event that avoids the need for one, with the merging of part of the Ninth into the Source. It is quite strange that they have witnessed this yet are plugging their ears over it and continuing their course.

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I feel like Halmarut's talk about rejoining was just antagonistic posturing to manipulate us into action. She knows we have the means to rejoin the shards in a less destructive manner, but she also probably expects that we are not open to trying to work with her due to the history between us and the ascians. There's also the possibility that she's playing it straight and thinks that regular rejoinings are the only solution left due to a lack of time to do it with Ethos.

Right now we just don't have enough details to really know where she stands, but I definitely feel like she's not nearly as much of an enemy as she wants the Scions to believe.

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Originally Posted by SkankyRoe

The context clues are all there. Thordan's entire ideals are 100% aligned with statis; conserving the status quo and upholding the 1000-year tradition, keeping things as they are and standing against change. And I don't think it's a coincidence that ascian machinations led to a light-elemental primal(King Thordan) being summoned at about the same time as the First was being prepped for a Light-aligned rejoining.



II don't think that's the case, all signs point to "elemental floods" being something that the ascians very much do not intend to trigger; recall that it was specifically the Contramemoria that served as the prepping for a darkness rejoining and the Flood of Darkness was an unforseen, unintended result that messed up their plans. It can be surmised then that Ardbert's triggering of the Flood of Light was also unforseen and unintended, which may also be why Lahabrea and Igeyorhm gave it their all to take us out in the ARF, they knew time was running short and we were about to eliminate the necessary trigger on the Source.
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They specifically said the flood of darkness was a failure because they didn’t prep the source with a darkness tilt to receive the 13th so it jusy consumed itself. The flood of light was intentional but ardbert triggered it too early, they hadn’t properly prepared the source yet

And lahabrea and igo however you spell her wanted king thordan to go on a genocidal rampage of the dragons and eventually other human societies, there isn’t much “stasis” about genocide, especially since doing this would alter the balance of ishgard which was already arguably in stasis as their society hadn’t changed in decades

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Originally Posted by SkankyRoe

The Solstice is a direct consequence of the Sundering, there's not really anything we could do in Elpis to stop it without causing further timey-wimey issues. And the Ascians wouldn't have given the Solstice any real consideration as they were convinced that they'd succeed in their own method to make Etheirys whole again.

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Halmarut tells us she knows this based on first principles. The Solstice itself has not happened. This means its possible it could have been deduced even before the Sundering. In any case, it certainly implies she has an unbelievable IQ or this is misdirection. I actually think they don't know and are just winging it at this point. I rewatched some SHB scenes recently and what a mistake that was. We are praising the patches when honestly, the writing has only marginally recovered to a pre 6.1 era.

I'm also probably a more exteme crititic in this regard but I would argue what we have experienced since perhaps 7.0 is not Final Fantasy, even with horribly low barrier to entry like Crisis Core. Is it a competent MMO? Maybe. Its not Final Fantasy. And that is part of their player problem. Its not just the MMO elements. And yes, even with the IX references, somehow, its not FF.

Off topic as well but has anyone noticed the Evercold teaser outpaced DT full trailer in views almost right away? I feel like they are going to be pulling some major marketing funny business for Evercold like paying off small publications for MC 100s. Will that be enough I wonder.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

They specifically said the flood of darkness was a failure because they didn’t prep the source with a darkness tilt to receive the 13th so it jusy consumed itself. The flood of light was intentional but ardbert triggered it too early, they hadn’t properly prepared the source yet

And lahabrea and igo however you spell her wanted king thordan to go on a genocidal rampage of the dragons and eventually other human societies, there isn’t much “stasis” about genocide, especially since doing this would alter the balance of ishgard which was already arguably in stasis as their society hadn’t changed in decades

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The eighth Rejoining was the explicit purpose of their manipulation of Thordan though:

Elidibus: So Lahabrea and Igeyorhm have fallen.
Elidibus: Bested by mortals in their attempt to initiate the eighth Rejoining. That they should be so complacent...
Elidibus: And now it falls to me to deal with the consequences...

Thordan's intent with a "rampage" was to usher in an endless era of peace without conflict. Endless peace = tranquility = stasis ("By my blessing shall all men be sanctified, and an endless era of peace begin. Vice and conflict shall cease to be")

While I am happy to see actual dialogue being referenced, Thordan unfortunately has no relevance to my point. Just clarifying. The calamity was not set up as we know it in ARR.

At least not outside the vague premise of Garlemald being an antagonistic nation.