Dark Knight Changes - Suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Thanad

That's the point man. If you look at DRK currently it's like all tanks were put into one, just on very high discount.

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No because I’m saying that DRK’s mana management is good, PLD’s is a waste of space, because you aren’t managing anything on PLD, same as WAR

Active management is always better than passive management

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Originally Posted by AnjouMaaka

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...2fda3f261ee9e&
http://https://cdn.discordapp.com/at...90edbeed2b05b&

No where do you see that this fits the description of what effective HP is. Effective HP is the amount of damage you can take before you hit 0. Mitigation is always referred to as a "reduction" of something, in the case of FFXIV, damage received.

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If I take 40% less damage, my maximum eHP is now my max HP divided by (1-0.4), and any HP consumed during that time constitutes 1/(1-0.4)x the effective damage consumed. It increases current and maximum HP.

If I increase my current and maximum HP by 20%, as a barrier or through the likes of Thrill of Battle, my current and maximum eHP are both increased by 20% of my max HP.

If I heal for 1000 potency and another 1000 over n seconds, I have increased only my current eHP, not maximum eHP, because I am still capped by the same maximum as before and have not increased the value per health point of what I have/had.

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Originally Posted by Thanad

they say "comparison is beginning of despair". it's truth it seems. I have all tanks leveled and play them all and while i think DRK is coolest visually, except running animation, the class is wreck. DRK have Darkside, but so does WAR. But WAR have it as passive on 1,2,3 and in AoE combo. You don't even need to think about it. DRK must spend MP to maintain it. And DRK MP regen sucks. We only have delirium which is quite bad. PLD also use MP but have insane regen on 1,2,3 and passive that cuts spell cost by half, so PLD have virtually infnite MP. Now DRK have lot of oGCD, sure it has. So does GNB but GNB oGCD's don't share CDs with each other. Let's not forget DRK crappy sustain. When you look at class objectively it's a wreck. DRK atm is discounted version of every other tanks

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How does any of what you mention here make DRK "objectively... a wreck"? Darkside is virtually nonexistent, yes, but DRK does more with MP than PLD does with its MP and Oath combined or WAR does with its Surging Tempest. PLD has "insane MP regen" because it doesn't matter; its offensive spells aren't worth using outside of its 1-minute CD anyways, so you could remove MP costs from all but Clemency, tone down the regen proportionately, and nothing would change and no one would be the wiser.

People complain that tanks are all the same but they want to make DRK another copy of the 3 that are overtuned.

Go figure.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

If I take 40% less damage, my maximum eHP is now my max HP divided by (1-0.4), and any HP consumed during that time constitutes 1/(1-0.4)x the effective damage consumed. It increases current and maximum HP.

If I increase my current and maximum HP by 20%, as a barrier or through the likes of Thrill of Battle, my current and maximum eHP are both increased by 20% of my max HP.

If I heal for 1000 potency and another 1000 over n seconds, I have increased only my current eHP, not maximum eHP, because I am still capped by the same maximum as before and have not increased the value per health point of what I have/had.

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Forget about it, Anjou is just dense on purpose to troll. >.>

honestly I think darknight are what tanks should look like because DK and GB feel both more unique but darknight just feel right I wouldn't mind having TBN on mp still but move edge of shadow and flood to a HP drain instead and yes abyssal and carve seperate cooldown

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

honestly I think darknight are what tanks should look like because DK and GB feel both more unique but darknight just feel right I wouldn't mind having TBN on mp still but move edge of shadow and flood to a HP drain instead and yes abyssal and carve seperate cooldown

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Maybe not in the specifics - or at least I don't agree on them - but yeah, Dark Knights have actual weaknesses. Their kit isn't hyper-generic, with a strong anti-magic and predictive focus and an actual resource to at least somewhat manage. Definitely among the better jobs in the game, though I'd still give that crown to Dancer.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

You are just being belligerent on purpose. Everyone but you understands these concepts, and to everyone but you it's intuitive. It's a you-problem, sorry to say.

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I provided the dictionary definition for "Mitigation" with a quote from the Oxford dictionary. But that's somehow "being belligerent?" Please go see a psychiatrist.

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Originally Posted by AnjouMaaka

I provided the dictionary definition for "Mitigation" with a quote from the Oxford dictionary. But that's somehow "being belligerent?"

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Oh the Oxford dictionary of MMORPG terms, yes. I forgot that one. It's a common mistake, I remember. Quick, while you're in that, look up the definitions for "pro raider", "DKP", "raidplan" and a few other key terms anybody would of course check up on in the Oxford, yes. Just like all subject-specific terms, you always look them up in the most generic dictionary.

Nevermind that the very definition you cited readily agrees that shields are mitigation.

I am not going to quote your advise on what to do back to you because frankly that's crass, but you really ought to take it anyways. You got some issues to resolve.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Oh the Oxford dictionary of MMORPG terms, yes. I forgot that one. It's a common mistake, I remember. Quick, while you're in that, look up the definitions for "pro raider", "DKP", "raidplan" and a few other key terms anybody would of course check up on in the Oxford, yes. Just like all subject-specific terms, you always look them up in the most generic dictionary.

Nevermind that the very definition you cited readily agrees that shields are mitigation.

I am not going to quote your advise on what to do back to you because frankly that's crass, but you really ought to take it anyways. You got some issues to resolve.

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You somehow thinking that dictionary definition makes shields a mitigation instead of a barrier is the most wishful thinking I've ever seen in my life

This is a ridiculous argument.
Yes, by the very dictionary definition of "mitigation", damage shields in this game are mitigation.

Mitigation:
the act of mitigating something or the state of being mitigated : the process or result of making something less severe, dangerous, painful, harsh, or damaging.

Mitigate:
to cause to become less harsh or hostile, to make less severe or painful, to extenuate.

So, in layman's terms it simply means to reduce the negative effect of something.

Now when you apply this definition to the context of defensive abilities within this game, or most MMOs, you establish the target of what is being mitigated which is the damage being received by the target player.
A shield, barrier, whatever you want to call it reduces the damage received by the player by a set value amount, such as the lower value between the total HP value of the shield or the total value of the damage done. So therefore because it is reducing the negative effect to the player of the damage dealt to them by absorbing part of it, it is mitigating the damage and is therefore mitigation.

By this same logic % damage reduction abilities are also mitigation, obviously, since they reduce the damage received by a percent value of the total damage being dealt. Simple, straight forward, easily defined as mitigation.

Now the one that gets into a little grey area is healing/self-healing. As healing occurs after the fact and is in reaction to having taken damage as opposed to being proactive and preventative, it could be argued that it is in fact not mitigation by the dictionary definition since it did not actually reduce the incoming damage itself. However, it could also be argued that it is mitigation by the dictionary definition since it does end up reducing the end effect of the damage received by regaining health and therefore undoing part or all of that damage.

So clearly shields/barriers within this game do match to the dictionary definition of mitigation, so hopefully this pointless argument can be laid to rest and other arguments of questionable point and value can resume.