So the Skirmish weapon can be melded.

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08-01-2012, 10:54 AM
Rau

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

You are so wrong. The axe is better than Garuda's with a good double meld. In fact, it's the easiest of the new weapons to make better than a Garuda weapon.

Don't believe me? I've crunched the numbers:

MRD / WAR: Axe Comparison

LNC / DRG: Spear Comparison

PUG / MNK: Knuckle Comparison

ARC / BRD: Bow Comparison

GLA / PLD: Sword Comparison

I'm curious, were the GC weapons tested with Sanction on? Also, it seems that the Garuda weapons are really... lacking across all jobs except WAR.

What's the deal? :(
08-01-2012, 08:48 PM
Rexus

Do these comparisons only put the weapons against each other, or does it include all other gear as well? How much higher are Garuda's stat caps than Giantsgall, is that included as well?

If it's just a weapon vs weapon comparison, I can see Giantsgall being better. However, when taking all gear into account, its hard to beat 25 Acc on the weapon. It changes what food you use, and possibly what accessories you wear.

I mean everyone already knew Ifrits will do more damage than Mogaxe, but I (and I assume many others) preferred Mogaxe for the Acc, which also let them gear/food differently.
08-01-2012, 10:55 PM
Molly_Millions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rau

I'm curious, were the GC weapons tested with Sanction on? Also, it seems that the Garuda weapons are really... lacking across all jobs except WAR.

What's the deal? :(

It's the stats that were tested to come up with those numbers rather than the weapons themselves. The latest sheets actually have them listed both with and without sanction, but I have yet to fill in the new sheet with all the 45+ weapons for every class.
08-01-2012, 11:06 PM
Molly_Millions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexus

Do these comparisons only put the weapons against each other, or does it include all other gear as well? How much higher are Garuda's stat caps than Giantsgall, is that included as well?

If you're looking at the ones I posted, then yes, your other gear is not accounted for. The new sheet does account for your stats assuming that you fill in the values for the primary and secondary stat, and your crit rate (taken from a parser) etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexus

If it's just a weapon vs weapon comparison, I can see Giantsgall being better. However, when taking all gear into account, its hard to beat 25 Acc on the weapon. It changes what food you use, and possibly what accessories you wear.

I mean everyone already knew Ifrits will do more damage than Mogaxe, but I (and I assume many others) preferred Mogaxe for the Acc, which also let them gear/food differently.

Personally, I like the Flame Sergeant's axe over everything I have. I don't have garuda's axe, and I don't like the 5 gc gear requirement of the LT's axe because it lowers my primary and secondary stats as well as gives me -20 enmity for what gc gear I currently have that would allow me to meet the 5 slot requirement. So with that being the case, I've set up my gear to have 97-100% accuracy without acc on my weapon. So for me, as long as I can get a large double meld or a triple meld on a skirmish axe, It would mean I don't have to go get sanction every time I die, and may even be a dps improvement depending on how much attack power I can successfully put on one.
08-01-2012, 11:35 PM
Almalexia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

If we agree that what's important is the total of all your stats vs what you have on the rest of your gear separate from your weapon. We can see that it doesn't matter if you have attack power on your weapon or elsewhere. What matters is the combined total of your stats on all your gear, then the wDPS is applied to determine caps and actual damage output. When we look at it in this way we can see that in certain cases melding primary and secondary stats to a weapon is not a waste and actually could be the best way to go.

You have it backwards. Weapon DPS comes first--this is what determines your stat caps and baseline WS damage. You then gear to your cap, plugging in primary stat, secondary stat and finally ATK if gear slots permit.

But do not forget the most important thing of all: Accuracy. The luxury of Garuda weapon is it combines the highest DPS (base damage, stat caps) with the lowest delay (more frequent WS) and has +25ACC to boot.

As I mentioned last page, the default conversion rate given to ACC is unreasonably low. Try plugging some numbers into the sheet when ACC vs. ATK is at 65% or higher. You will see Garuda will not be overtaken by anything short of relic, due to higher DPS, or possibly Flame/Storm Lt. weapon if you can work out the set bonus.

Giantsgall only gets competitive with 3x melds. Gloves included.

Edit: 3x, not 4!

Edit 2: I just noticed the current version of the spreadsheet uses a log curve instead of a linear function for charting stat caps. If correct, and it's dubious, this puts the cap for Garuda 18 points of STR over Giantsgall--a whole HQ STR ring's worth.
08-01-2012, 11:52 PM
Molly_Millions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almalexia

You have it backwards. Weapon DPS comes first--this is what determines your stat caps and baseline WS damage. You then gear to your cap, plugging in primary stat, secondary stat and finally ATK if gear slots permit.

It doesn't matter if you apply the dps first or after, my point was that it applies to all of your gear, so you can't look at your weapon separate from your other gear. You're not wrong, you just missed my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almalexia

But do not forget the most important thing of all: Accuracy. The luxury of Garuda weapon is it combines the highest DPS (base damage, stat caps) with the lowest delay (more frequent WS) and has +25ACC to boot.

As I mentioned last page, the default conversion rate given to ACC is unreasonably low. Try plugging some numbers into the sheet when ACC vs. ATK is at 65% or higher. You will see Garuda will not be overtaken by anything short of relic, due to higher DPS, or possibly Flame/Storm Lt. weapon if you can work out the set bonus.

ok, lets do that:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1E&output=html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almalexia

Giantsgall only gets competitive with 3x melds. Gloves included.

Edit: 3x, not 4!

The magic number seems to be 58 attack power, which is an above average double meld or a triple.
08-02-2012, 12:51 AM
Rexus

Wait, so Ifrits stat caps aren't 348~/308~ anymore? Are 39~ DPS weapons THAT much lower in caps?
08-02-2012, 01:00 AM
Molly_Millions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexus

Wait, so Ifrits stat caps aren't 348~/308~ anymore? Are 39~ DPS weapons THAT much lower in caps?

Are you referring to the stats I put in the new sheet? Those aren't caps, that's what I've got on the gear set I was wearing when I was comparing those axes.
08-02-2012, 01:03 AM
Meatdawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almalexia

The luxury of Garuda weapon is it combines the highest DPS (base damage, stat caps) with the lowest delay (more frequent WS) and has +25ACC to boot.

You posted this before but I wanted to correct you.

Tp gain doesn't work like that.

For example: Garuda gets 230tp for 2.3 sec while relic gets 400tp for 4sec

The ratio of tp gain is the same for every weapon 1:1

Over 10 minutes, you gain the same amount of TP
08-02-2012, 01:09 AM
Molly_Millions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meatdawg

You posted this before but I wanted to correct you.

Tp gain doesn't work like that.

For example: Garuda gets 230tp for 2.3 sec while relic gets 400tp for 4sec

The ratio of tp gain is the same for every weapon 1:1

Over 10 minutes, you gain the same amount of TP

In addition DPS for a given weapon is a derived stat, it comes from the damage and the delay.

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