Concerns about Content Finder, Drops, and Difficulty Settings for EG.

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Originally Posted by Amsai

However, anyone that thinks they deserve to get gear that is vastly superior to the Normal mode gear, are not grounded in reality. Hard mode is a step up from Normal, therefore the gear should only be a step up. Not night and day. I promise you I have many casual friends and family that will not play this game if you grind normal dungeons and get gear that makes you feel like you are being punished for not being hardcore enough. And it would potentially be a death nail to this game. If you think I'm exagerating, youve been caught up in the FFXIV EG scene for too long and have begun drinking the Kool-aid.

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First off, let me get this strawman argument out of the way. No one here is saying the difference should be like day and night when it comes to how much better the gear is. The only thing anyone has said is that it should noticeable and be worth your time and effort to beat hard mode instead of "Hard mode version gives you 3 more STR over normal mode, derp."
It kills incentive to thrive and better yourself when the work it takes to go through hardcore content does not reflect the reward.

And your "promise" is in fact false. I know plenty of people who can not for the life of them beat Ifrit, Moogle, CC, AV or even the final Job quest that still play the game and enjoy it. Have I ever heard anyone complain about being punished? No. Not once.

And it's funny seeing you talk about the death of this game when one of the nails in 1.0's coffin was catering to casuals WAY too much at the start and the only life it has now is catering to the hardcore who are sticking through with it.

lt;dr Don't try to punish the hardcore because you want them to be brought down to your level. Also, please stop talking like you know how to make a successful FF game and leave it to the dev team.

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Originally Posted by drivendawn

So your sayin that with hard mode just being a step up from normal mode that the difference should be like night and day on the gear. I and betting others would beg to differ.

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Please read the first part of my post.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

"I" didn't say that.

I was very clear about why hard mode should have better gear; it's your own problem to believe that better implies something as grossly over-exaggerated as "night and day" differences.

Now, tell me why just because you're doing ezmode, you should get gear hardly any different than what more skillful modes offer.

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I never said ezmode i said normal and never said hardly different. It stands to reason if hard mode is a step up in difficulty that the gear would also be a step up.
I made very clear on my last post " Ok,still not seeing how its fare to make hard modes gear retardedly better than normal mode." It doesn't look like you're reading my posts very carefully dude, cause you replied to this with "Maybe because hard mode takes more effort, time, and skill than normal mode? Ever thought about that?" Maybe you missed it cause I misspelled retardedly.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

First off, let me get this strawman argument out of the way. No one here is saying the difference should be like day and night when it comes to how much better the gear is. The only thing anyone has said is that it should noticeable and be worth your time and effort to beat hard mode instead of "Hard mode version gives you 3 more STR over normal mode, derp."

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Based on past experience, the rule of item scaling is that hard mode gear is usually about 5-7 item levels higher than normal mode gear. There shouldn't be that large a discrepancy between normal mode and hard mode.

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And it's funny seeing you talk about the death of this game when one of the nails in 1.0's coffin was catering to casuals WAY too much at the start and the only life it has now is catering to the hardcore who are sticking through with it.

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Not really. 1.0's launch mistake was trying to force people to play casually. That's why surplus and fatigue were implemented in the first place. Poor stat presentation and an obviously unpolished game system just aggravated the problem.

As far as what they're going now, the only reason they're doing that is because the game seriously lacks content with reasonably rewards and pacing. Anyone who can look beyond their nose knows this. Why design 11 dungeons with multiple bosses spread throughout the 1-50 leveling process for a game that will vanish once 2.0 hits?

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

First off, let me get this strawman argument out of the way. No one here is saying the difference should be like day and night when it comes to how much better the gear is. The only thing anyone has said is that it should noticeable and be worth your time and effort to beat hard mode instead of "Hard mode version gives you 3 more STR over normal mode, derp."
It kills incentive to thrive and better yourself when the work it takes to go through hardcore content does not reflect the reward.

And your "promise" is in fact false. I know plenty of people who can not for the life of them beat Ifrit, Moogle, CC, AV or even the final Job quest that still play the game and enjoy it. Have I ever heard anyone complain about being punished? No. Not once.

And it's funny seeing you talk about the death of this game when one of the nails in 1.0's coffin was catering to casuals WAY too much at the start and the only life it has now is catering to the hardcore who are sticking through with it.

lt;dr Don't try to punish the hardcore because you want them to be brought down to your level. Also, please stop talking like you know how to make a successful FF game and leave it to the dev team.



Please read the first part of my post.

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Focusing a bit too much on little things. I did say my example was a simple EXAMPLE.

Actually there are many more casuals than there are hardcore, and you cant account for a small sampling of this games already small population even if that wasnt the case. So Im pretty damn sure my promise atill holds for the silent majority. Nice try though.

And NO, the game didnt almost die due to catering to casuals LOL. It was because the game was an abomiantion and unplayable. The other major reason was because the classes lacked uniqueness and everyone could be All-in-Ones.

Leave it to the Dev team.................. Yes becasue the last one did a bang up job didnt they?

Next!

I don't think folks are getting what Amsai is saying. I'm pretty sure that was a small example. That obviously wouldn't be the only stat -- +3 str derp! -- Let's get a better example:

This is what a normal mode drk/lgt cowl would have -- MP : +120, Enfeebling Magic Potency : +15, Int : +15, Pty : +15, Evasion : -20, Refresh : +3

This is what a hard mode drk/lgt cowl would have --MP : +125, Enfeebling Magic Potency : +18, Int : +18, Pty : +18, Evasion : -18, Refresh : +4

Okay. Now... Playing hardmode and getting all of the pieces of gear with the same differences in stats you see in exhibit B above, you'll find that it's quite the noticable difference from the complete set of normal mode gear's stats. At the same time, it's not an unfair difference.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Not really. 1.0's launch mistake was trying to force people to play casually. That's why surplus and fatigue were implemented in the first place. Poor stat presentation and an obviously unpolished game system just aggravated the problem.

As far as what they're going now, the only reason they're doing that is because the game seriously lacks content with reasonably rewards and pacing. Anyone who can look beyond their nose knows this. Why design 11 dungeons with multiple bosses spread throughout the 1-50 leveling process for a game that will vanish once 2.0 hits?

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That is probably more accurate than my statement in regards to the game being too casual. But with 2.0 there will be a lot of content, (or so they say) and adding hard difficulty only stretches the content. I really don't see a problem with hard modes.

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Originally Posted by Amsai

Focusing a bit too much on little things. I did say my example was a simple EXAMPLE.

Actually there are many more casuals than there are hardcore, and you cant account for a small sampling of this games already small population even if that wasnt the case. So Im pretty damn sure my promise atill holds for the silent majority. Nice try though.

And NO, the game didnt almost die due to catering to casuals LOL. It was because the game was an abomiantion and unplayable. The other major reason was because the classes lacked uniqueness and everyone could be All-in-Ones.

Leave it to the Dev team.................. Yes becasue the last one did a bang up job didnt they?

Next!

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An example is still an example and I disagree with your example. I also fail to see how I am "focusing on the little things". From what I understand you are trying to argue for the difficulty level should almost not at all reflect the quality of the gear and I disagree with that intensly.

And so what you are saying is that minorities shouldn't get equal treatment? You're saying that just because more people thats subscribe are casual, that hardcore players should be ignored? Well that shows your bias.

Also, I didn't say the game almost died because they catered to casuals. I said it was mearly a nail in a coffin that was almost closed shut before Yoshi.

And to your "leave it to the last one" it's almost entirely the same dev team. The games state wasn't their fault either. They had to adhere to the dev director Tanaka who had an unfinished vision of a game, which it wasn't his fault either. It was the people in charge who made them push out the game before it was ready. But 2.0 won't be pushed out before it's ready seeing as they learned their lesson.

/insert word insinuating that I've "beaten" you

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Originally Posted by Yusuke

I don't think folks are getting what Amsai is saying. I'm pretty sure that was a small example. That obviously wouldn't be the only stat -- +3 str derp! -- Let's get a better example:

This is what a normal mode drk/lgt cowl would have -- MP : +120, Enfeebling Magic Potency : +15, Int : +15, Pty : +15, Evasion : -20, Refresh : +3

This is what a hard mode drk/lgt cowl would have --MP : +125, Enfeebling Magic Potency : +18, Int : +18, Pty : +18, Evasion : -18, Refresh : +4

Okay. Now... Playing hardmode and getting all of the pieces of gear with the same differences in stats you see in exhibit B above, you'll find that it's quite the noticable difference from the complete set of normal mode gear's stats. At the same time, it's not an unfair difference.

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Still seems a little lowballing to me, but I guess that's opinion.
To me you need to be able to see the difference and that is hardly one at that.

I'm not arguing for insane day and night differences, but your example there seems a bit weak imo.

As long as there are scaled rewards and "Casual" players don't demand the same rewards as "Hardcore" players, this is fine, and sounds like a great idea.
But
When is it ever that easy?
There will always be those who demand more for nothing.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

Still seems a little lowballing to me, but I guess that's opinion.
To me you need to be able to see the difference and that is hardly one at that.

I'm not arguing for insane day and night differences, but your example there seems a bit weak imo.

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Then please elaborate, with what you think. Taking that one piece hard mode gear that Yusuke submitted and adding it up with the rest of the set that's similarly adjusted is actually a lot! If +6 to +10 extra on each stat of each piece of gear is what you had in mind then, yes; That would be night and day differences to me and very OP.

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Originally Posted by Amsai

Yea, I think you need to chill out a bit. Your kind of coming off as an elitist. Everyone that pays for this game should be able to "FULLY" experience the entirety of the EG content. We want this game to be inviting to the casual players, and lets face it, casual players are the vast majority of subs in an MMO. Thats a fact. I myself lean more towards the hardcore gaming, but I am not so selfish as to only want the best for myself to the potential ruin of this game.

And I cant beleive another person came into this thread with the skewed view that EG content isnt hard. Have you even played other MMOs? I have never played an MMO with harder EG content (from the current generation of games). Compared to FFXI and WoW and just about anything else out there, FFXIV is ridiculously harder. I would say that all the primal battles and Dungeons (with the exception of Darkhold currently) range in difficulty from hard to too Hard for the average MMO player. As I said before either you are a badass or you are a liar, because thats the only excuse I can think of for you to call any of the content (aside from DH) easy and suitable for the casual player. Its not just about drop rate.

FFXIV failed horribly once already. Few games get a 2nd chance. FFXIV 2.0 has one more chance to get it right, the game needs to be nearly freaking perfect. Period. And I dont think anything I have suggested would kill gameplay or hurt hardcore players. If you think I have, then you are being wholly unreasonable and willfully ignorant.

As for the difference in gear from one difficulty tier to the next, I dont know what SE is planning. I just think they need to be cautious about how they approach it. The example I gave was just that, an example. However, anyone that thinks they deserve to get gear that is vastly superior to the Normal mode gear, are not grounded in reality. Hard mode is a step up from Normal, therefore the gear should only be a step up. Not night and day. I promise you I have many casual friends and family that will not play this game if you grind normal dungeons and get gear that makes you feel like you are being punished for not being hardcore enough. And it would potentially be a death nail to this game. If you think I'm exagerating, youve been caught up in the FFXIV EG scene for too long and have begun drinking the Kool-aid.

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I believe in earning what ever reward it is. I understand some players cant do it for whatever reason, but even the worst players should beable to clear endgame content w/o there being a baby mode. None of the current content is HARD, even garuda isnt hard once you understand what needs to be done. The issue is players need to be on the same page when they do garuda or any content. Now just waiting till the casuals (and there will be some) get to ifrit extreme, this forums gonna light up like a christmas tree.

I dont care if your hardcore or casual, because there is no reason either group can not clear content that is HARD. Will it take some work yes, but when you finally actually complete the content most if not all will look back and say "that wasnt hard" or "that was easy". Now even if some 1 has a few hours a day there is still no reason that they should not beable to clear any content. Will it take longer to clear yes but they still will beable to clear harder content. The way I see it from all the complaints is players want things easier, and honestly you cant get any easier than the content we have right now.

I have done every piece of endgame in FFXIV yes at 1st its tough because players need to learn it, but once you learn it, its another story. I have players say hamlets are hard but they are not hard, they are a cake walk. Nothing is hard once you learn how to complete it, yes it might be annoying, it may still be challenging, but you will complete it again.


Your last statement: ( I promise you I have many casual friends and family that will not play this game if you grind normal dungeons and get gear that makes you feel like you are being punished for not being hardcore enough. And it would potentially be a death nail to this game. )

This statement has been addressed by yoshi and it dose in fact relate to drop rates and unfortunatly we all have to wait till 2.0. As I see it some casuals are mad because of this and I know some hardcore who have the same issue, and it is all because the DEV's for right now have chosen to keep the drop rates that are so low that it isnt funny. Now I ask you what do you think would be the rewards for an easy or a normal mode? I can give you the answer but you wont like it and thats more G5 or grade 5 dark matter. If you want better gear you can craft it and meld materia to it or go for darklight, players already have a choice but instead it seems players just want things easier.