Delete rescue from the game.

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Originally Posted by Tigore

I can understand the jaded sarcasm within the post for the healers. I had been one for the other game WoW for quite a bit. One of the popular comic guys for Dark Legacy even put in his jokes for it.

https://www.darklegacycomics.com/330
https://www.darklegacycomics.com/374
https://www.darklegacycomics.com/387
https://www.darklegacycomics.com/319

As a side note for the Lightwell Wrath of the Lich King Holy Priests, I sometimes gave up on that talent. It was getting buffed to the point of giving overpowered heals, but it still required the DPS to actually mouse click it and avoid taking damage to capitalize on it. The end result was predictably almost no healing from it and having to use Flash Heals so much more to dip into your mana.

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I remember threatening my raid group with getting no extra heals if they don't click the effing Lightwell. It didn't take long for it to work.
Healers getting jaded and sarcastic seems completely natural at this point because in every game there is this subset of players that thinks that healers only exist to ensure they can have fun without interruptions and not having to think about pesky things like mechanics, not standing in bad or staying in heal range. Let the healers think about this, let them run after you so you're in heal range, let them heal spam you when they're standing in bad because they've been tunnelling on stabby stab stab again, it's their job, amirite?

That healers are your personal butt wiping machine, babysitter and cheerleader is probably the most common misconception about the role and the one that turns the nicest healer into a jaded pile of salt.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

[...]Really, let Rescue be, there is no need to complicate it.

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A fine, different point of view. But yes I totally agree with you, I was just trying to think of a 'compromise' since majority of these 'rescue rage' stems from within dungeon runs which tend to be negligible at most (it's not like we have shortage of healing buttons to fix that kind of stupid at this point, right? lol).

If they want to change any at all, they really should improve that delay instead, not remove the button.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

A fine, different point of view. But yes I totally agree with you, I was just trying to think of a 'compromise' since majority of these 'rescue rage' stems from within dungeon runs which tend to be negligible at most (it's not like we have shortage of healing buttons to fix that kind of stupid at this point, right? lol).

If they want to change any at all, they really should improve that delay instead, not remove the button.

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Agreed. /10char

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

rescue is amazing. I only used it like 333 times since's been implemented in the game. I'm responding for people who can't move or don't know how to dodge something yet lol, I have permanently drilled it into my hotbar Y-key, perfect use of space and time.

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boo! come up with a better sarcasm

I agree with just cutting out the lag delay on Rescue. In order for the ability to work now in most cases, we would already have to have the notion of not trusting the DPS player to move right when the mechanic starts. If we need a crafted item for an option to turn it off against the trolls pulling us off Titan's platform, sure. Although suddenly seeing a healer running off that cliff and knowing they are a troll is definitely a warning sign to turn on Arm's Length / Surecast. We don't need those abilities for anything else in that encounter.

Also for Rilifane, my jadedness is more strongly against when I was trying to tank. There is even a Dark Legacy comic for that one if the tank does not have any good respect for them.

https://www.darklegacycomics.com/392

In my case, the worst that happened was all 3 DPS running in all different directions in one of the troll dungeons for Cataclysm. Only the healer actually supported me. But according the other 3 DPS, it was apparently "my fault" Thunder Clap, Taunt or even Challenging Shout doesn't have 500 - 1000 yalms to save them all. Pretty much the final straw were the LFRs in Mists of Pandaria . . . against other tank players trying to taunt everything and pretend the co-tank doesn't exist. There was honest to god one thread asking for the raids to be designed for only one tank to be the big hero ...

It feels strange saying this, but I have had the most control in keeping the party safe as the healer. Even though the tanks are still needed to reduce damage taken, the healer still needs to be there to keep them alive and we still have to decide if we have the GCDs to spare to cover for mistakes. In most cases, I can here in FF14 since the damage is not consistent enough to demand the same Flash Heal spam on the tank Wrath of the Lich King WoW may have.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

boo! come up with a better sarcasm

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Granted I took liberty from your post, but it isn't sarcasm on my end, I've posted that because I believe it.

Tanks have a lot of control over things to the point of being able to solo dungeons and normal raid bosses. Takes a while but entirely possible because their selfheal is just completely busted compared to the incoming damage. And you have easy control over keeping the party safe because the incoming damage is pitiful. A single Medica II will probably solve all your problems.

I wouldn't call it better control.
It's more that your role has just become so obsolete that any button is guaranteed to solve whatever problem you currently have since the incoming damage is so low compared to the power of a single heal.
Which is most likely also what further encouraged this attitude of "Healers are my butt wiping machine so I can have FUN!".
I genuinely wish we had less wiggle room for wiping everyone's butt and blowing on little boo boos so people finally learn that no, standing in bad is not okay and no, your healer will not be able to babysit you. Watching people just topple over if they stood in the hyperbeam from Razzy is extremely satisfying. They'll not do it a second time.
Not every mechanic has to nuke you into orbit but making unavoidable damage pitifully low and infrequent while making most avoidable damage also pitifully low is just coddling healers and giving dps even more reason to demand healers bow to their whims.

And especially the difference in reaction to Rescue vs Leap of Faith/ the Dracthyr drag & drop makes this pretty obvious.
In my entire time playing this game I had only a handful of people (and yes, I remember every single case because it was so rare) thank me for a well-times Rescue while the rest went into some sort of "I know what I'm doing/ Stop using Rescue on me -.-/ If you do that again I'll report you".
While the reaction to the other was never a negative one so far. Not a single time. It was either no reaction or, more commonly, a positive one like "good timing ty" or "woof thanks". I even had people asking mid-encounter for a Leap because they got stuck in a bad position and would only get out by taking massive damage.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

If they want to change any at all, they really should improve that delay instead, not remove the button.

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Yes. Exactly, don't nuke a button that has a bit of skill ceiling attached to it. Make it function instead.
I also dislike that you can't drag people safely over chasms because of how it's coded. It would give healers a lot more options and something I really like about Leap/ Drag&Drop. Someone fell into water? Or is standing on the wrong platform? Or is surrounded by fire? Or fell down a level? Or gets yeeted towards a death zone? No worries, this skill got you!
With really quick reaction you can even drag people back from getting knocked off a platform.

They should make a raid where you're forced to use rescue just to really piss the DPS off

Imagine like the Thorns in P4S part 2, a tether is placed on two DPS that tethers to the closest nontethered DPS (so two pairs of two), and when the tether times out they die, it has a 3s duration so there's no way to break it in time by running. So you have two DPS at north, two at east, and when the tethers go out you rescue one from the pair to the opposite side (so south and west). And then when the tether breaks 'properly' it's a 2man stack so healers are at S/W to rescue and be the pair for that stack, then the tanks would take N and E to soak for the DPS that didn't get moved

Then the DPS will complain about their uptime, the healers will complain that the DPS are refusing to suck up the 1 GCD difference, and the tanks will complain that the mechanic might as well not exist for them, it's perfect

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

Watching people just topple over if they stood in the hyperbeam from Razzy is extremely satisfying. They'll not do it a second time.

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Assuming you mean Razageth from 'other game', last I played they definitely DID do it a second time. And third, fourth and indeed fifth. Then again, they have a 3rd party tool that tells them which side to put their earthspike on Terros, with a MASSIVE ARROW on screen pointing left or right, and yet still Terros was always a 2+ hour shitshow to reclear on heroic because oh boy we've got six spikes on the left again and now the tanks can't aim the TB to clear 'only some of them'

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

They should make a raid where you're forced to use rescue just to really piss the DPS off

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I have very little experience with raiding (even normal), but what little I do know of is gimmicks like A12 where a tank needs to LB3 (and the LB gauge fills up rapidly to make sure you can clear the mechanic of course).

Dunno (obviously) how much this sort of "using kit we (the devs) KNOW you have" gimmickry goes on in other content, but yeah, it'd be cool to see stuff like this that uses Role Actions (i.e. stuff you know a normal party comp will have available to it).

@Rilifane
I am slowly starting to get back into trying the tank role in FF14 when I am with a FC friend. It is as you say with tanks having many cooldowns to handle the damage. This is especially the case with WAR Bloodwhetting and PLD getting a HoT with Confiteor casts and Clemency casts to boot. Another player I know of who played WoW calls those 2 tanks "blue healers".

The FF14 healers have also had the many cooldown treatment indeed. Asylum is pretty much guaranteed to solve a lot of healing issues of vuln stack DPS taking an unavoidable hit... As long as they stay in the circle... Thin Air Media 2 still takes care of that pretty well too.

We are probably given this much cooldown control on purpose since it is known that there will be resistance towards telling a few other players to adapt. It's still amazing how the blame gets an attempt for shifting even if everyone clearly saw them stand in the hyperbeam. Since even I can name a few toxic engagements from it happening in WoW, the Devs here would probably rather minimize that from possibly happening for content intended to be easy.

In the end, we all just want to clear the dungeon. I will try my best to keep everyone up the best I can. I will be considering funneling heals if I have to if the situation gets dire. If everyone is really low on health, I only have one Benediction and Tetragramaton after all off global. That is what Second Wind and Bloodbath is for to allow melee to help in that situation.