New patch and still no positionals back on MNK!

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Originally Posted by Blazero

I definitely don't speak for everyone here, but I've really been enjoying the Monk changes - and I've been maining Monk since 2.0 (but I missed out on the entirety of the 3.X iterations of Monk). Since removing GL in 5.4 was laying down the groundwork for how Monk would be in the future, I was really looking forward to some sort of new gauge to manage. Blitz is a really nice and fun addition to the job for me and the new animations makes everything feel a lot more fresh.

I'm indifferent about positionals though - I've always done them since of course, we had them, but they've never been a part of the class identity to me. It's always been about the free-form combos through the stances for me, and the changes to Perfect Balance is a step in the right direction (even though the Solar Nadi requires a normal combo, but the flow can be different, e.g. Twin Snakes > Dragon Kick > Demolish, depending on which buff/DoT you need to refresh).

All of this being said, it doesn't mean improvements can't be made. I'd love to see Anatman being reworked into something related to one of our Nadis, and while Six-Sided Star is a good tool to use in certain situations, it'd be great to see it get some more use in our usual combo flow. And as I've seen it being said before, something to do in between our Perfect Balance windows would absolutely be welcome, even if it's just an extra oGCD.

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I like the Blitz system a lot too.

The big issue I have is that MNK feels empty during the downtime.
NIN actually sorta got solved in that regard in EW, it still has the 1 2 3 downtime but it's not felt as much now or at least it feels shorter because of Raiju and higher Ninki gain.

But MNK lost ogcds and on top of that also lost positionals, so now you've basically got nothing else to do during downtime inbetween the burst phases.
And Chakras are inconsistent and unpredictable and also have issues with overcapping with the new Brotherhood which is rly unresponsive and clunky too which is a whole other issue.

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Originally Posted by Blazero

and while Six-Sided Star is a good tool to use in certain situations, it'd be great to see it get some more use in our usual combo flow.

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We could have the best of both worlds by having something (landing a certain amount of positionals, a specific skill, keeping Twin Snakes up, etc whatever the method may be) that can proc free charges of SSS without the recast penalty a la BLM's Thundercloud. SSS can remain as a disconnect/finisher optimization tool whilst also having some contribution in the main rotation.

Though this is far from an original idea of course many other people have suggested the same thing since ShB.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

I've levelled PLD, MNK and BLM to 90 and got MCH part way there mainly doing current level dungeons, in that entire time I've probably seen 1 or 2 Monks. Even during the various roulettes every day etc, Monk and Ninja are the jobs I think I have seen the least. Which does happen to line up with FFLogs data. Of course, this is all just from one perspective, just like yours is from another perspective and they entirely contradict each other. As you should be well aware, personal experience does not give an accurate picture of the whole.

The most common consensus I have seen, which has been universal, is the period between PB windows being boring/lackluster. Positionals is an easy way to fix that. Just have the potencies we have now be the positional potency and then divide up the potency loss from SP and DEM between the rest. If you want every positional back, 20 potency on every weapon skill, if you want it back on all but Raptor, 30 potency each. This doesn't require adding new moves, the DPS is going to be the same as it is now and you keep the people who have been playing Monk for years happier.

Not every job has to be able to be played by everyone, there needs to be jobs that fit the whole spectrum to cater to all needs. Monk having loads of positionals was a niche it filled in the sea of melee that have barely any. Why should that be taken away.

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Positionals are not going to suddenly make the boring rotation less boring. If that's all it took then you could simply just do them on your own anyways. Half the time I still catch myself doing them just out of sheer habit. I'd rather they just fix the job overall and make the blitz mechanic more engaging than it is right now over worrying about positionals that are getting phased out. I'd put money down that by the next expansion positionals will be mostly gone if not completely gone given how many early boss fights right now in EW have full circle markers allowing you to ignore positionals anyways.

So ya, I wouldn't count on SE suddenly giving monk back all 6 of their positionals when one of the biggest complaints about the job since ARR has been its over reliance on such a mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I like the Blitz system a lot too.

The big issue I have is that MNK feels empty during the downtime.

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Serious question, how can you like it? It would be an "ok" side-mechanic, but standalone or even as core-mechanic? No...

I mean, seriously... it´s not a gauge or something. I don´t even know why we got some graphical info about it. They added or better reintroduced already existing skills as burstskills at the end of any PB window. The rotation changed a bit, but that´s it?! You´ve nothing to play around, nothing to care about. You just press PB as before, perform 3 skills and use a fourth button after that order. If you fail you´ve a "safe-skill" which is at bosses even easier in its execution since you need a target, meanwhile the other skills can land into nowhere when the boss is getting untargetable or jumps away.

Blitz is no depth mechanic or anything in my eyes. So what is so good at it?

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Serious question, how can you like it? It would be an "ok" side-mechanic, but standalone or even as core-mechanic? No...

I mean, seriously... it´s not a gauge or something. I don´t even know why we got some graphical info about it. They added or better reintroduced already existing skills as burstskills at the end of any PB window. The rotation changed a bit, but that´s it?! You´ve nothing to play around, nothing to care about. You just press PB as before, perform 3 skills and use a fourth button after that order. If you fail you´ve a "safe-skill" which is at bosses even easier in its execution since you need a target, meanwhile the other skills can land into nowhere when the boss is getting untargetable or jumps away.

Blitz is no depth mechanic or anything in my eyes. So what is so good at it?

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I like combo:ing into a big finisher.

I really don't like gauges tho it's actually something I really dislike about Reaper and it makes the rotation on Reaper feel very stale to me.
I don't like the feeling of just 1 2 3 to build up a meter and then dumping it.
NIN is an exception to that because it's actually a bit more involved if you want to fit it into trick windows it's less forgiving than on Reaper and NIN also doesn't revolve around it entirely like Reaper does.

Blitz gives Perfect Balance a proper purpose which is what was asked of it since it was made purely into a damage cooldown in ShB. I like it conceptually but I do agree it could have been executed better, especially when MNK quite literally has nothing else to do in its kit right now.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I like combo:ing into a big finisher.

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I get that, but is it deep or something? I mean, we´re talking about that one thing on MNK left while everything else got deleted. And the combo hasn´t even changed, it´s the same as previous PB, but splitted into 2. It was possible to take the old MNK and put a finisher at the end of PB too. Instead we got catered with a praised rework, which is nothing but an addition of burstskills on cd into the rotation.

Do you get what i mean?! So many ppl have been like "yes a new mechanic on MNK", but is that really one? It´s deceptive.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Blitz gives Perfect Balance a proper purpose which is what was asked of it since it was made purely into a damage cooldown in ShB. I like it conceptually but I do agree it could have been executed better, especially when MNK quite literally has nothing else to do in its kit right now.

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I mean it does nothing else than before... "Increase our DPS."
We spam Bootshine half its time, but still prefer it in 2/3 Blitz-phases. So nothing really changed, just TK / EF and a new skill as GCD at its end.

With NIN and SAM as comparable templates, both have possibilities and / or have to use different combos, unleash the skill without a full combo. MNK on the other hand, does exactly the same stuff as before, just with Midare/Raiton on top.

It might feel fresh for some ppl, because it´s new and changed the rotation slightly, but objectively seen it adds nothing to MNK´s kit or gameplay, but high potency skills.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I like combo:ing into a big finisher.

I really don't like gauges tho it's actually something I really dislike about Reaper and it makes the rotation on Reaper feel very stale to me.
I don't like the feeling of just 1 2 3 to build up a meter and then dumping it.
NIN is an exception to that because it's actually a bit more involved if you want to fit it into trick windows it's less forgiving than on Reaper and NIN also doesn't revolve around it entirely like Reaper does.

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I do agree about being able to combo into a big finisher (and this is the first time Monk has had really big potencies since it has always been more about hitting fast, not hard). Rising Phoenix is also one of the most satisfying things ever.

They can definitely build on the Blitz system further, but I like what I've been able to play with so far. Like you mentioned earlier, Chakra overcap has always been an issue and it feels bad wasting a potential Chakra gain.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Serious question, how can you like it? It would be an "ok" side-mechanic, but standalone or even as core-mechanic? No...

Blitz is no depth mechanic or anything in my eyes. So what is so good at it?

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I feel the current Perfect Balance/Blitz is a better build on what we had in terms of PB pre-Endwalker, since we had a Perfect Balance window every 90 seconds instead, which always led to Dragon Kick > Bootshine and repeat a further 2 times, with no big finisher at the end. We did have positionals in between but it really was just pressing the same combo buttons in between those 90-second windows, with the here-and-there Elixir Fields and Tornado Kicks - which we never really got to appreciate the animations of since they were oGCDs. We do at least get to do free-form combos more often now, with 2 charges of PB and 40-second cooldowns.

I do think something thing that would help Monk, in general, is making Celestial Revolution into a single target skill (edit: that has a higher potency than Elixir Field) that would generate a Lunar Nadi, which would give us a little bit more choice between Elixir Field and Celestial Revolution.

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Originally Posted by Blazero

I feel the current Perfect Balance/Blitz is a better build on what we had in terms of PB pre-Endwalker, since we had a Perfect Balance window every 90 seconds instead, which always led to Dragon Kick > Bootshine and repeat a further 2 times, with no big finisher at the end. We did have positionals in between but it really was just pressing the same combo buttons in between those 90-second windows, with the here-and-there Elixir Fields and Tornado Kicks - which we never really got to appreciate the animations of since they were oGCDs. We do at least get to do free-form combos more often now, with 2 charges of PB and 40-second cooldowns.

I do think something thing that would help Monk, in general, is making Celestial Revolution into a single target skill that would generate a Lunar Nadi, which would give us a little bit more choice between Elixir Field and Celestial Revolution.

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Of course it makes PB a bit more relevant, or at least a bit less braindead. But for me it´s still nothing but new skills added, which i barely use. As i´ve said, just look how SAM / NIN work and what possibilities they have with something similar.

Doesn´t really make sense to change CR. You´re going to use the skill with the biggest potency. The only way to make it happen is to give CR a bigger potency than EF. So EF would be only useful with 2+ enemies. But since it´s rarely the case in any bossfights, you gonna stuck on CR. Otherwise it would break the whole MNK rotation in some way. (Which would atleast need some kind of adaption.) But srs i don´t want to have just another SAM or NIN. MNK had its own with positionals, now it has nothing unique so far besides SSS.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Doesn´t really make sense to change CR. You´re going to use the skill with the biggest potency. The only way to make it happen is to give CR a bigger potency than EF. So EF would be only useful with 2+ enemies. But since it´s rarely the case in any bossfights, you gonna stuck on CR. Otherwise it would break the whole MNK rotation in some way. (Which would atleast need some kind of adaption.) But srs i don´t want to have just another SAM or NIN. MNK had its own with positionals, now it has nothing unique so far besides SSS.

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Yeah, it'd require a bigger adaptation but I'm willing to see how it plays out. Having Elixir Field be the Lunar AoE choice and Celestial Revolution be the Lunar single target choice (and like you said, it'd need to be a higher potency than Elixir Field in that case) was my thought process, but I'm sure there are better ideas out there. Again, it'd be great to have more things we can do in between our Perfect Balance windows, but I'm being hopeful and optimistic, as I've been finding it fun playing with Monk post-Endwalker.