A request for Endwalker Dungeons (No more Undertuned)

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Just want to say that this wasn't intended to turn into a discussion about difficulty modes, casual players vs 'elite', etc. I just want Dungeons where the packs don't die pretty much instantly. That's it.

I will say there were some neat ideas to have environmental challenges, such as a remix of the Tonberry that follows you, the hallway in the nier raid, etc. or to bring in 'harder' dungeons as optional unlocks. I'm all for those!

Again, I'm not asking for dungeons to become some hellish mode people can't complete. I just want to not be bored out of my mind because the packs are dead after a few AOES.

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Original pharos Sirius before nerfs was probably the best dungeon.

Unfortunately, people rebelled. Many refused to unlock it, people would insta leave, etc.

And it wasn't even that hard, assuming you followed mechanics. My friends and I were very confused when we found out people were leaving lol...

Honestly, minimum ilvl dungeons would probably feel more difficult. I've long said leveling dungeons are more difficult than max level ones because of the stricter syncing.

3.0 and 4.0 had some of the hardest hitting mobs in leveling dungeons.

The faster trash dies, the better. If they don't give EXP anymore then I'm not interested in spending any more time on them than necessary. I'd like some more interesting boss mechanics though, or possibly more bosses per dungeon that push players to use their kit properly.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Those were bad. So, so bad. They definitely weren't for the faint of heart.

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I've only gotten them maybe... 7 or 8 times, but I only had any disbands one of those times. The rest were all pretty smooth. Certainly better than some of the Cata dungeons following the level squish.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I've only gotten them maybe... 7 or 8 times, but I only had any disbands one of those times. The rest were all pretty smooth. Certainly better than some of the Cata dungeons following the level squish.

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My experience was pretty rough with them when they were first released. I got through a fair number of them but it took a couple hours at least. Sometimes it took longer than that. It was quite the learning curve for a lot of people. Dealing with Wrath dungeons prior to Cata and the horrors they brought initially were like night and day. I'm always up for a bit of a challenge, but not at that cost. Dungeons, even heroics, should have never been that difficult. The devs really messed up there, and it set the wrong tone for Cata. Cata in general gets a lot of crap but I think it is usually for the wrong reasons. As far as dungeons go...that hate was deserved, at least at launch. And for the revamped troll raids. They learned their lesson I think, since Karazhan's dungeon in Legion left the old raid intact and introduced a new one in 5 man form. They even went and added heroic dungeon versions of it later on. It was frustrating to get through on mythic difficulty but I found it fun enough.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I'm well aware. Just because they're story focused doesn't preclude them from having some measure of teeth. No one is asking for Extreme or Savage level difficulty here but for mobs to require more than a pulse. When a tank can entirely solo a dungeon meant for four players, it's utterly ridiculous.

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The second an MSQ story dungeon (including max-level story dungeons) becomes too hard for players to get through because of 'teeth', there will be a max exodus of players who quit because of frustration.

Sounds ideal? Wildstar called and wants you back.

There was a time where mass pulling required more awareness about the jobs you play and they could be pretty dangerous so you wanted to use your kit to the maximun to survive some of them and that was a lot of fun, bosses use to be more than simplified mechanics with more punisheable mechanics and such, and of course the Ilvl use to be more tunned so you didn't awfully overlevel the dungeon like now.

Im not surprised ppl come with coments like "it's locked with the MQS so it have to be like that" and "there is other conent if you want challenge" aka the 4 instanced bosses we get every 6+ months but they have to understand it's not about make Dungeons super hard, it's never been about that, its about don't make Dungeons super braindead wich is not the same, stop threating ppl like they are so dumb they can't handle a proper learning curve with dungeons.

Picture what you want, if people in a random queue system has hard content. That people do on a daily basis. Do you know how tedious that would be?


If it is part of a queue in and do system for daily rewards it should be fast simple and no risk. I don't want to do dungeons that take a ton of time and requires thinking as a daily chore.

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Originally Posted by shao32

There was a time where mass pulling required more awareness about the jobs you play

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There was a time when some jobs didn't get an AoE until they reached level 40+, and the toolkits of members of an instance were such that one had to be a wee bit more careful about pulling large numbers of enemies. There was a time when the maximum iLevel was 130, and most people were happy to be sitting around 70 or 80. That was when mass pulling required awareness, which didn't stop tanks from ignoring things like "you know, if I have 9 mobs all doing their AoEs in this circle around me, perhaps the two melee DPS will die before they get a chance to whittle them down".

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Picture what you want, if people in a random queue system has hard content. That people do on a daily basis. Do you know how tedious that would be?


If it is part of a queue in and do system for daily rewards it should be fast simple and no risk. I don't want to do dungeons that take a ton of time and requires thinking as a daily chore.

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dungeons being so easy that you literally dont even need a healer to complete them is what makes them tedious and a chore. i have exponentially more fun doing bardams mettle or the vault than doing anything in expert or 567 roulette.

The least they could do is not mislead the player by naming it something like "expert" roulette. Blatant lie, pretty much every dungeon prior to expert roulette is harder than any dungeon in expert roulette.

And yeah higher difficulty modes should be introduced like every other game.