Dps job design issues due to lack of utility.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shinxwildflower

...I always took the idea of healing, in this game, is more DPSing then healing. Healing when folks are getting near death and not topping off. That's...a bit weird to hear, not gonna lie.

---

Yes I am aware, top tier healing is knowing just how little I can keep ppl alive on and dps. But I am still playing a healer.. the interesting part is also the healing and feeling the pressure on me to keep people alive. Most of the time in savage I don't feel much pressure at all. Give people more mitigation and such then I will just fall asleep pressing 1 and 2.

I would love to have more buttons and "skill trees", my main game so many years ago had skill trees and obviously was plagued by power creep but it was still amazing fun even if there wasn't really a 'choice', still if you were willing to accept the consequences it was a unique experience.

That said this won't happen.
Out of every mmorpg I've played FFXIV has the heaviest weight when it comes to death, because the game is simple.
If death isn't heavy then content is too easy, if content is too easy then they have to make content harder, but that reduces accessibility.
So death is heavy and content is easy, because death is heavy. In other games if you die you'll have topped resources again in like 30-60 seconds.
In this game you can still not be topped resources after 3 minutes after having ressed and lost said resources.

I would love to see skill trees experimented with however badly it goes. But I feel the experimentation phase of this game is over. They know how to print $$$ and they're staying on path.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

They used to be called silence. They were changed to interrupt with shadowbringers. Many of us still call them silences.

---

Technically, it wasn't just the name that was changed. Interrupts only stop an ongoing cast. Silence also delayed future casts, albeit only for a single second. This actually made SCH's AoE silence (via Selene) pretty damn strong for gathering casters in certain dungeons, in ways a mere interrupt would not have done.

I imagine the change had more to do with future-proofing potential problems with affectable boss's skill scheduling than that, though. Since when has XIV ever given a damn about dungeons, after all, save to make them more shallow?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Technically, it wasn't just the functionality that was changed. Interrupts only stop an ongoing cast. Silence also delayed future casts, albeit only for a single second. This actually made SCH's AoE silence (via Selene) pretty damn strong for gathering casters in certain dungeons, in ways a mere interrupt would not have done.

I imagine the change had more to do with future-proofing potential problems with affectable boss's skill scheduling than that, though. Since when has XIV ever given a damn about dungeons, after all, save to make them more shallow?

---

Ehh, I feel the dungeons have gotten more interesting mechanically personally, but they will never be ex or savage level.

I loved 5.0s leveling dungeons.

I'd like more stuff like older 2.0 style dungeons, but people always seem to hate those the most so... They stopped making them that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Ehh, I feel the dungeons have gotten more interesting mechanically personally, but they will never be ex or savage level.

I loved 5.0s leveling dungeons.

I'd like more stuff like older 2.0 style dungeons, but people always seem to hate those the most so... They stopped making them that way.

---

What's more interesting mechanically about corridors and forced walls?

Personally, I feel like the largest issue we'd face in asking for more interesting dungeons isn't the "community" (whose opinions, as mostly sometimes reasonable sentient beings, change as the circumstances or object of their opinions do), but the flat roulette rewards. So long as the roulette rewards do not scale with the content in question, or do not share a certain bonus cap (liekly with some day-to-day roll-over) with other roulettes, you always want to roll the quickest dungeon to make their bonus that much more efficient. If a dungeon A takes 20 minutes for 40 tomes, dungeon B takes 30 minutes for 60 tomes, and C 40 for 80, that just allows for variety and choice. But seeing as most will only run the one roulette-bonused dungeon per day, we instead have 20 minutes for 90, 30 for 110, or 40 for 130, and voila, there's a clear most efficient choice. And thus, to those who want to make the most of their time, there is no choice, and all designs but A become superfluous.

In practice, though, there are of course further complicators. For instance, mere dungeon length would not give sufficient variety. We'd also want to allow for differences in difficulty, in which case those times will vary.

Let's say we have Players 1, 2, and 3, at differing skill levels.

For a party all of whom are, on average, at the skill level of Player 1, with no outliers so great as to solo-carry, A takes 30 minutes, B takes 50, and C takes 85+, if even possible. For that player, if rewards remained as above, A is faintly more efficient than B, and C would be something of a non-option, at least on a daily basis.

For a party all of whom are, on average, at the skill level of Player 2, A takes 20 minutes, B 30, and C 40. Thus, they have every option.

For a party all of whom are, on average, at the skill level of Player 3, A takes 18 minutes, B 24, and C 30, since they're so much more effective in combat, but can still do little about the times spent sprinting. Thus, Dungeon C would be their most efficient option, and A their least. Moreover, when they play to their strengths in queuing for just type C, they tend to have the smallest player pool for queues, but also do not likely encounter Player 1, from whom they are most different in that setting where that difference would create the most conflict between them. (That says nothing for premades, of course, in which one may be guiding Player 1 through that more longform content, which is usually quite fun but not exactly a daily grind path.)

All that, though, still requires either separate roulette queues with shared daily bonuses (like a real Expert Roulette, as distinct from a Level 80 Roulette or Levels 50, 60, 70, 80 Roulette) or a revision of how roulette daily bonuses work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReynTime

What's more interesting mechanically about corridors and forced walls?

---

I think the reference was more towards boss mechanics? It's not as if anything else worth calling a "mechanic" has existed outside of boss fights since ARR.

(Though, some have made the case that even AoEs and even auto-attacks, even when they generate zero unique behavior or interactions, out to be considered separate -- even to be further broken into conal AoEs, linear, radial, etc. --and real mechanics, so...)

I don't think they can add in utility to the game because the game content is designed to be extremely cookie cutter. Could you imagine being able to mind control an add in the intermission phase of the E1 fight? Or being able to plop down a Warlock's demon gateway to quickly traverse between two different platforms? Or a rogue stealthing the whole party so they can bypass entire trash packs? The game simply isn't designed that way. The scripts are very sequential, and if you don't kill certain mobs or do stuff out of order, it'd break. Which is sad.

I play this game not to have skill trees, borrowed powers and other tedious systems in place to keep a player "engaged" so no keep those ideas you have to that other game you mentioned and keep FFXIV designed how it is right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReynTime

What's more interesting mechanically about corridors and forced walls?

---

I dunno, what's interesting about standing in 1 spot for hours killing the same mobs over and over?

Oh, we aren't having a battle of generalities based on the game?

I never said dungeons were suddenly very interesting. I said more interesting.


The leveling dungeons at least, require a bit more though than the previous expansions. And that is all I meant.

If I want to scratch my difficult content itch I have savage, but the tier is over and we've cleared so....