Dear SE, stop homogenizing jobs

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Originally Posted by Vulcann

make the game much more open ended and more activities to do instead of endgame raiding and then you will have your different and interesting classes.

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That's one of the reason I loved Eureka. You could play any job you want in any role you want, and you'd always find a party.

Or, something I suggested several times in the heated debate about BLU, is for each job to have its core for matchmaking, but have customization as a limited feature for when you play solo, unsynced or in full premades.

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Originally Posted by Mistyregions

They need to make one raid tier cater to some jobs and the next cater to the others. If you dont wanna switch jobs, then you are entitled.

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You wouldn't have that problem with content of larger scale. People don't really notice if an alliance is not 100% following the meta while they do for a party, even outside of Savage. The more people you gather, the less people will expect to match the optimum setup, especially if you can't create the whole group outside of the instance.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

*looks at every job in this game, and narrows eyes only at WHM and AST*

I don't see how any of the jobs are similar, outside of how those two heal.

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Even within the similarities to their healing they have differences, WHM has its Lily system and AST has the cards and unlimited weave space for its ogcds. Even their aoe spells have differences, Holy is a full cast time melee ranged attack that stuns, while Gravity is a fast casting ranged spell that does not stun but gives AST weaving space.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

I have no intention of adding to this pointless conversation. Thanks.

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Then don't post in the thread? If you have no intentions of adding anything, then what's the point of coming on and saying it's pointless?

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Originally Posted by TheForce

I am with you OP, totally and wholeheartedly. If this continues, the game is destined for death...

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Log in queues months after 5.0, sure is dead here.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Log in queues months after 5.0, sure is dead here.

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Wasn't there a thread listing every single time people declared the game was dead or dying? I know it was a hilarious read but I can't seem to find it anymore. Eventually a few years down the road the game will reach the natural end of its lifespan and a ton of people will be like "See, I told you!" :rolleyes:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...al-Fantasy-XIV

Yes, the game has literally been dying since release, if you believe people on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Log in queues months after 5.0, sure is dead here.

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Very rarely do games die overnight, (unless you're blizzard and have a giant PR disaster that makes Fallout 76 look tame) it's usually through months/years of neglect/ bad decisions. Not saying I think the game is dying, far from it, especially when the only homogenizing problems really lies with healers/tanks, the more unpopular roles.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Nah what they need is more diverse approaches to encounters than simply whack it till it's dead.

Create actual options for groups to handle things based on there set ups.

Oh hey theres adds spawning. Off tank go grab them..

Only running 1 tank. WellWe got a blm let's sleep them ..
Oh we dont have a blm but we do have a smn let's bind them in place or have a titan egi hold them..

Probably not the best example but give groups options and different ways of dealing with things rather than just round it all up and whack it till it's dead....

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Anyone who raided mythic WoW know what this looks like. It means, be class X/Y that can trivialize the encounter or GTFO. DK's with grips come to mind.

I don't see how this is a positive turn of events. I think FF is really good the way it is and i like it cause it isn't like WoW where specific classes are used to trivialize content and you can bring whatever class you want.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

No, that's role homogenization. Job homogenization would be playing exactly the same. Also, war lost its "hp focused identity" in 2.1 or 2.2 when they completely remade it and gave it damage reduction cool downs.


Healers are homogenized to a degree, mostly in terms of dps abilities.

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No. what hes talking about is towards the beginning of 4.0 WAR lost it's 20% HP bonus, unlike the other two tanks at the time had a 20% damage reduction, our damage reduction was tied to our Storms eye combo we lost back in 4.0. Making all 3 tanks at the time of 4.0 all the same a 20% damage reduction in their tank stance. from 2.0 to 3.0 Wars had to keep up Storms eye to keep our damage reduction, PLD had ROH combo for STR down, and 3.0 DRK had delirum for INT down.

Ironically, job balance is arguably the worst it has ever been despite a fair amount of homogenization.

The issue isn't inherently raids but a woeful lack of creativity and an overreaction to the whole "meta" scene. The dev team feels very confused and out of touch despite insisting they listen to feedback. Why do I say this? Look no further than the healers. For months leading up to Shadowbringers, we heard constant mention of a serious healer rework that would supposedly place a greater emphasise on healing; it was the primary excuse for not implementing a fourth healer. What did we get? Baffling balance adjustments where healers scale at a Stormblood level but... the content is even easier? O3S does so little damage to the tanks, if you aren't purposely eating Temporary Current, you'll only need your 120s and Rampart once the entire fight. That Flare tanks should run away with? A shield and Tactician/Shake makes it barely break 20k. It's laughable. So where is this supposed increased healing emphasis? I think the problem lies in two areas: Far too many oGCDs and an outright fear the healer role needs to remain simplistic otherwise people won't play it. And this philosophy extends to the tanks as well. They may be better handled, but they're certainly stripped down.

It gives the impression job design was primarily focused on how to coax new players into the game not entertain veterans.

What I think it boils down to is the dev team keeps trying to appease everyone but won't move out of playing it "safe". This combination simply will never work. It can't.

My little rant aside, I don't actually believe homogenization is bad. You need it to a certain extent as there's only so many ways tanks can mitigate something; healers can healer, and etc. But Shadowbringers took it a bit too far in some areas.

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Originally Posted by Mistyregions

We can stop homogenized classes as soon as people stop asking for balance. People will stop asking for balance when they get over their personal favorite classes not being the nest for a raid tier.

My solution? Make every raid teir use different classes with different strengths. You may go 1 savage tier not playing SAM because it's not needed and 3 casters are. You can have multiple jobs on a character so the only excuse not to pick up another job to do current tier is because you are entitled and whiny.

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This will not work. In fact, it's more likely to drive people away than complete homogenization ever will. Calling it entitled that people don't want to be forced into playing a completely different role or job is utterly absurd. A melee player shouldn't, under any circumstance, have to play a Caster just to be relevant for the current raid tier. Do that, and like I said, you'll see people completely quit for that tier—if not altogether.