Duty Finder Roulette Etiquette

Generally, I don't believe in the "you spank it, you tank it" rule, except for the most extreme circumstances, such as someone endangering a party by going ahead of a tank and pulling a group. Aggro is easy to get ahead of as a tank, so there plenty of opportunity to save them if you think it possible.



That's usually my mindset: Fight to win. Survival beats Time, a win beats a wipe. a dead partymember cannot help you, a dead party does not proceed.

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Originally Posted by Laphael

You made an example where it is not ok to pull, obviously.

Also the reason it got worse is probably, like i said, getting enmity back is really easy for the tank now and tanks are not as much in need as before.

Before Shb, you would usually let the tank have his way, because it was a bigger issue to replace him. So Tanks usually got what they wanted even if it was an annoyance for the whole grp.
Now with healers being more in demand those tanks get suddenly told, what to do different and that party wishes matter too; followed mostly by a tantrum at the infantile level. (aka putting tankstance out and letting everyone die)

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The problem is that it's now not uncommon to see these things. This even happens when it's clear the healer I'm with can't deal with me pulling wall-to-wall, or the DPS are burning enemies fast enough for whatever reason.

A lot of people who I have had to deal with doing this as of late are the type that don't care what is happening in the dungeon at all. They pull because they can. I tend to stick to big pulls, but if my healer is here in the dungeon for the first time, wearing iLvl 400 gear and is generally illequipped - a DPS pulling tons of crap isn't going to get far.

It's not about how easy it is to take enmity back, it's about being the one in the group that chooses what gets done. DPS, Tank, healer - your role doesn't matter. If 3 of 4 people don't want to do large pulls, and are sick of you pulling more mobs - guess who gets shown the door? Group decides.

Also any time I have to deal with this situation its someone who thinks they are above everyone else. Another good example is me explaining Titan EX to a PUG, and having having a BLM just go "Stop wasting everyones time" before pulling him themselves. Luckily everyone was on board with just letting the BLM die, and then restarting.

The bottom line is that this isn't a DPS thing, it isn't a tank thing, and it isn't a healer thing - It's a group thing.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

The problem is that it's now not uncommon to see these things. This even happens when it's clear the healer I'm with can't deal with me pulling wall-to-wall, or the DPS are burning enemies fast enough for whatever reason.

A lot of people who I have had to deal with doing this as of late are the type that don't care what is happening in the dungeon at all. They pull because they can. I tend to stick to big pulls, but if my healer is here in the dungeon for the first time, wearing iLvl 400 gear and is generally illequipped - a DPS pulling tons of crap isn't going to get far.[/B]

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Originally Posted by Laphael

With the new tank stances enmity management is super easy. A dps pulling to keep there buff (dancer dancing for example) is better for the run than letting the buffs run out.
Also, if someone else is able to pull more/faster, you basically pulled not enough/to slow.
Exceptions are: New player/some special pulls/communication before pull.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

It's not about how easy it is to take enmity back, it's about being the one in the group that chooses what gets done. DPS, Tank, healer - your role doesn't matter. If 3 of 4 people don't want to do large pulls, and are sick of you pulling more mobs - guess who gets shown the door? Group decides.

Also any time I have to deal with this situation its someone who thinks they are above everyone else. Another good example is me explaining Titan EX to a PUG, and having having a BLM just go "Stop wasting everyones time" before pulling him themselves. Luckily everyone was on board with just letting the BLM die, and then restarting.

The bottom line is that this isn't a DPS thing, it isn't a tank thing, and it isn't a healer thing - It's a group thing.

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Originally Posted by Laphael

Before Shb, you would usually let the tank have his way, because it was a bigger issue to replace him. So Tanks usually got what they wanted even if it was an annoyance for the whole grp.
Now with healers being more in demand those tanks get suddenly told, what to do different and that party wishes matter too; followed mostly by a tantrum at the infantile level. (aka putting tankstance out and letting everyone die)

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I never intended to say, that dps should pull all the time.

What is the point of this thread exactly? Asking for a friend.

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Originally Posted by Laphael

I never intended to say, that dps should pull all the time.

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What exactly are you advocating for then?

Honestly, if a tank isn't willing to pull more, kick 'em. If the group wants more - but the tank doesn't. F 'em, bye bye, here's the door. (Obviously, this method shouldn't be a thing for new tanks in earlier dungeons)

I have never dealt with a tank throwing a tantrum when asked to pull more. I've only ever really been on the other end. DPS pulling more, pulling bosses before people get into the room, not rolling on loot so they can't be kicked, mocking people, etc. That's where my experience comes from. I generally pull wall-to-wall, and a DPS shouldn't exactly pull more considering I play with a healer I know, and I know when to stop gathering more enemies.

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With the new tank stances enmity management is super easy. A dps pulling to keep there buff (dancer dancing for example) is better for the run than letting the buffs run out.

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This is the line I got hooked on that made me think you were advocating DPS pulling. Your buff really means nothing if I see my healer burning through resources without time to catch up. That's the issue I have with what I've experienced.

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Originally Posted by BatLW

What is the point of this thread exactly? Asking for a friend.

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uhmmm, killing time at work, mostly.

Well, as much as I'm concerned the only real rules that apply are the rules of the games you agreed to respect when you created your account.

There is no such thing as etiquette, any infraction to the rules are to be reported to a GM and any "gameplay conflict" is to be settled by kick or abbandon vote.

Any other "rules" have no worth nor weight and can't apply as anything but your personal point of view that don't overwrite other players own point of view on how the game is to be played.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

What exactly are you advocating for then?

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Tanks pulling at a reasonable pace for the Party and not throwing a tantrum if a dps pulls a boss to maintain its buff.

And "You spank it, you tank it" is bad and outdated.

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Originally Posted by Laphael

Tanks pulling at a reasonable pace for the Party and not throwing a tantrum if a dps pulls a boss to maintain its buff.

And "You spank it, you tank it" is bad and outdated.

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I can agree that "you spank it, you tank it" is bad - but I can't agree with pulling the boss as a DPS.

I mean it seems like a reasonable list to me. But what do I know? I will say as someone who is fairly new to tanking, the raids and alliance one main tank issue is normally never discussed. I will make sure to ask before a duty begins. I honestly didn't realize that, but as I've said I am new to the role.

So this thread helped me with just that small comment :) Thank you!