Suggestion: healer-based incentives/rewards

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Huh no. Most healers SHOULD do more than healing and basic mechanics. But they don't NEED to, because most of the basic content simply doesn't require it. It's too damn easy.

So yes, you're wrong. You're hyperbolizing SHOULD with NEED.

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If you want to go down that route you could say the same about tanking. Or dps. Or anything really.

I have seen plenty of tank stance tanks who did little other than stand around and get hit, seen plenty of dps who did mediocre damage at best and used no role actions, and seen loads of healers have the group at low hp all the time despite their large mana pool. So then if easy content often allows players of any role to do the bare minimum, why should only tanks get access to role-based rewards?

Also are you somehow unaware that people can make content more difficult by doing things such as chain pulling mobs, being undergeared, or simply playing badly? Don't underestimate how much reckless and/or bad players can change how content feels.

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Originally Posted by Raven_Darkstar

Yup. And guess who gets the blame when something goes wrong? Regardless of whether or not said healer was actually at fault.

In addition to healing, doing mechanics and carrying other players, we also have to dps as much as possible. So healing being a simple matter of performing your primary role plus mechs? Yeah... No.

Yet tanks are the only role that gets achievement mounts. I've honestly never felt that that was particularly fair. In my own experience, both healing and tanking, healers are needed every bit as much. I can't tell you how many times I've had to sit in queue waiting for a healer as tank, but it's far more than the reverse.

In my opinion, role in need should be two tier, as someone said earlier in the thread, and second in need should be getting rewards too. Show healers some love too, SE.

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As a healer, I love when someone gets one shot (tank) because they didn't use their cooldown but it's automatically assumed to be the healers fault. :') And, it's actually not the easiest thing in the world to heal + DPS spam when the tank pulls huge waves and doesn't have the best gear. n__n; Especially when the DPS decides to just sit in every aoe (I find black mages to be the worst offenders). Not sure why people act like healing is an easy thing to do.... even my friend who is a hardcore player and can play pretty much any content on any role admits healing is the most difficult role.

And do you need to do DPS? Maybe not. But you *should*. I mean, tanks can also do the bare minimum and perform pretty poorly too. And I've seen it plenty of times....

I don't really tank so I don't know how queues are for tanks but mine are almost always instant unless I'm doing a 24 man or something super old and obscure OR I'm trying to do something at 5am. If it's true that there are just as many healers missing as tanks then I'm confused as to why we aren't treated the same as tanks. :/

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Originally Posted by Mikki

At level 30 you get a unicorn. "And that's it, you're basically done with healing. The game doesn't reward you past that. I hope you like it."

It would be nice if I could get something as a healer but healers already have a fair amount of people playing it compared to tank so I guess I see why we don't. *shrugs*

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I think all roles should get mounts to be honest. The vast number of DPS players and jobs doesn't sweep under the rug what they go through e.g. long ass queue time for a progress dungeon only to have the tank and healer bicker at each other, and one if not both bail; being told being a melee sucks for X boss; or just the shear DPS loss penalty for failing a mechanic.

Just because a role/job doesn't need to be incentivized, doesn't mean it shouldn't be rewarded for playing it an extended amount of time. It would be nice for those who choose to main something. This applies to crafters and gatherers too. I'm probably as much a CUL/BTN main as I am a healer.

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Originally Posted by Mikki

I don't really tank so I don't know how queues are for tanks but mine are almost always instant unless I'm doing a 24 man or something super old and obscure OR I'm trying to do something at 5am. If it's true that there are just as many healers missing as tanks then I'm confused as to why we aren't treated the same as tanks. :/

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Because it isn't true, healers are more numerous than tanks.

Might not be by a lot, but it's by a large enough margin that it's barely ever the role in the need, and also a large enough margin that SE clearly doesn't see any need to incentivize the role.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I think all roles should get mounts to be honest.

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/thread

If you want the tank goodies you tank, want the healer goodies you heal, want the dps goodies you dps. The incentive to play all roles for the rewards would be there as long as the rewards differ for each.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Huh no. Most healers SHOULD do more than healing and basic mechanics. But they don't NEED to, because most of the basic content simply doesn't require it. It's too damn easy.

So yes, you're wrong. You're hyperbolizing SHOULD with NEED.

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Nor tanks, much less DPS. On easy content, DPS could even ignore mechanics if the healer is good enough. In those contents, tanks can tank without using any cooldown and an ice mage can do an alrighty damage if he keeps the GCD rolling. They will clear that easy content.

But that doesn't change the fact that an healer that just heals, an tank who don't use cooldowns and an ice mage are the example of players who don't do even the bare minimum. The bare minimum for healers is heals+support+mechanics+DPS. The bare minimum for tanks is manage aggro+cooldowns+positioning+mechanics+DPS. The bare minimum for any DPS is doing their rotation (which means do damage)+mechanics. And if someone does anything less than what I described, people will notice, because that will make that content harder. Specially for the healer. For instance, healing Sastasha (the easiest content) with a tank that is using ilvl 1 equips is... Quite challenging. Specially if he don't know how to use Flash, Shield Lob, Overpower, Tomahawk, Unleash, Unmend or even Rampart. All of those available by level 15. And a dungeon that a SCH could do without casting Physick not even once (just EOS's embraces would do) can be a nightmare.

And I say that as healer main who always heals pugs.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

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The statement of the tank:

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

Most healers usually just really need to heal and folllow mechanics as necessary just to get most of the basic content done. They can supplement DPS if the party, especially the tank, is geared enough.

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He used the words “usually just really.” Which means for “the most part.” Also, he stated a “most of the basic content done” which more-than-likely excludes raids, extremes, and ultimate. The last sentence shows that he understands that if he, a tank, is geared enough, a Healer can do more than just heal… in this case, DPS.

Your response:

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Originally Posted by Penthea

That isn't to say tanking isn't challenging. It is. But saying healers "just have to heal and follow mechanics" is so false. We're constantly expected to and have to make up for the shortcomings of others.

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From my perspective: You read the statement and only saw the word “just”, which is a whole different meaning than what he stated. You took his statement personally. Instead of waiting a few minutes to cool down and re-read it again, you tried to “correct” him on something he already knows about.

Also, you added to that statement an addendum implies that there is a community forced burden on healers, that they must constantly and always do more and make up for everyone else’s shortcoming. Which seems like an expectation you placed on yourself. *

You’re “correcting” someone who didn’t need to be corrected at all.

*Exceptions to events like raids, extremes, and ultimate.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

It appears that when someone says "healers must do X" you automatically read it as "only healers do X".

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Don’t project too much now, you’ll burn out your bulb.

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

Most healers usually just really need to heal and folllow mechanics as necessary just to get most of the basic content done. They can supplement DPS if the party, especially the tank, is geared enough.

However, tanks have to hold aggro, position the boss, and time defensive cooldowns for some hard hitting attacks. And not to mention the average DF attitude toward tanks at times can be harsh for most players.

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How else am I supposed to take this other than to mean "a healer's job is usually very basic"? This player was clearly trying to make the healer role look very simple compared to a tank's job to justify healers having no role based rewards.

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

From my perspective: You read the statement and only saw the word “just”, which is a whole different meaning than what he stated. You took his statement personally. Instead of waiting a few minutes to cool down and re-read it again, you tried to “correct” him on something he already knows about.

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So let me get this straight, I am at fault for taking the meaning of the word "just" in the way it is usually meant? This is your argument?

lol

You're the one who needs to cool off, you're getting all worked up over one word to the point of trying to change its meaning :rolleyes:

I'm not sure where you can find it, but I'm fairly certain it was once said by the devs that each job was going to get a mount, and that they added the unicorn for WHM first to entice players into leveling it.

Given that this was years ago, I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped the idea outright.

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

Nor tanks, much less DPS. On easy content, DPS could even ignore mechanics if the healer is good enough. In those contents, tanks can tank without using any cooldown and an ice mage can do an alrighty damage if he keeps the GCD rolling. They will clear that easy content.

But that doesn't change the fact that an healer that just heals, an tank who don't use cooldowns and an ice mage are the example of players who don't do even the bare minimum. The bare minimum for healers is heals+support+mechanics+DPS.

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No it isn't. If you want to talk about simply just clearing content, a healer doesn't have to use one offensive gcd or ogcd. If you want to talk about min/maxing, skipping raid phases, and overall playing optimally then yes it is required. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is ok to play this way, and if healers are not using offensive skills they will spend a lot of time just standing around or over-healing. But I do have to be real here. Now granted, I have not participated in any of the SB raids so I could be unaware if the devs have changed designing content that does not factor healer DPS into the clears. But I haven't heard anything from them about it.