Idea: Class split idea for all jobs

I really like a lot of the concepts OP came up with. I think that this is certainly something we could see making a resurgence in this game. Yes, everyone knows Yoshi-P said no. Genuinely asking here: Why did he say no? Are those issues still in the game? I really can't think of what problems are currently caused by the SMN/SCH split, other than the fact that someone could queue up as a healer in higher level content without having a single idea of what to do... but um, people kind of do that regardless, and jump potions are now a thing.

When it comes to gear/weapon sharing, I really can't see why, say, if my BRD had a healing spec, the healing potency couldn't scale off of DEX. And I agree what the person above was saying. Giving everyone a "free" support spec would improve the tank/heals population, and it would possibly give everyone a better awareness and understanding of different roles, thus having a positive effect on player skill overall.

And of course, they wouldn't release these alternate paths all in one patch. But I can see at least one happening in the future. As it stands, though, I think there are more unique jobs to explore.

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Originally Posted by thrashette

I really like a lot of the concepts OP came up with. I think that this is certainly something we could see making a resurgence in this game. Yes, everyone knows Yoshi-P said no. Genuinely asking here: Why did he say no?

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Basically his same technique as in 1.x. If it got heavy backlash, even if fixable, he made himself the one stalwartly against the path/feature, indefinitely. Rather than fix the create-your-own job system, he said declared it problematic and impossible. Rather than fix battle regimen, he declared it useless and unsolvable. Rather than fix any meta-narrowing implications of incapacitation system (e.g. knocking frogs on their back, decapitating skeletons, de-horning giant buffalo), he declared it unfair and unsalvageable. Because some mob AIs were more dangerous than others and gave rise to certain player complaints, he removed them almost entirely (only remnants being the unique detection system of the (sound-based) ghosts in the latter half of Darkhold, which you can walk past, or at least still could at ARR's release).

As long as he can put packing up and bailing on an idea in a positive light, it's worked as a reactionary fan-drawing platform. It makes him look decisive. Nevermind however many similar mistakes follow, in the same vein, despite abandoning the idea outright.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Basically his same technique as in 1.x. If it got heavy backlash, even if fixable, he made himself the one stalwartly against the path/feature, indefinitely.

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Don't forget the "We'll remove elemental resistance from mobs because we're afraid people won't take BLM in their group...even though we had plenty of opportunity to not make them focus on a single damage type"
Or "We won't give unique properties to items because we're afraid people will consider them mathematically superior and, thus, mandatory....while creating ilvl so people don't even have to make theory on what item is mathematically superior and, thus, mandatory".

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Which is still at least 20 levels earlier that what futue jobs will start at, if we follow the current trend.

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I just don't see a reason to start off at 1. If most classes really don't have an opportunity to learn how they function until 30.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Snip.

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You ignored the rest of the thread where I already discussed not wanting to start off at 1. Also SMN/SCH both use books.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

I just don't see a reason to start off at 1. If most classes really don't have an opportunity to learn how they function until 30.

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So, I'll rephrase my statement. I'd rather start new classes at level 30 and leveling several jobs at the same time than starting new jobs at level 50...or above.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

"Jobs Only" means that once someone has the greatsword, they alone have the greatsword.

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...why?

Branching classes need to share a weapon type as much as jobs need to have different weapon types. Namely not at all. They do that for the sake of diversity, not because of necessity.

Scholars and Summoners both use books. From a certain arbitrary point onward, neither the base class Arcanist, nor Summoners can use Scholar Books and Scholars can't use Arcanist/Summoner Books either. And not just the weapons are separate and can't be used by each other - The entire gear is split, as casters can't use healing gear. Functionally, that is no different than if Scholar was a standalone job without any ties to Arcanist. If they had wanted to, they could have given it basketballs for a weapon instead and restrict books to ACN/SMN, because SCH weapons can be and later are separated from ACN/SMN weapons and thus can be a different type of weapon altogether.

And similarly, they could make a new job, give it a Greatsword and simply restrict the Greatswords intended for that job to that job so that DRK can't use them and vice versa - Just as they already do with ACN/SMN and SCH. They can also copy&paste skills over if they deem it fitting. Or not. They can tie it into a different job's lore or not as well.

The only real benefit to branches that I see is that you can get two for the price of one. Other than that, there's nothing you cannot do with one that you can do with the other - Adding talents to split skills instead of having them separate from the get-go just seems a bit more cumbersome.

If they don't intend to put branching on classes ever again, then they should go to the exact opposite and delete them completely. When enlisting at a guild, you would receive a deaspected job crystal that would regain its spark at level 30.

And building on that, the crystal could be the item to determine your job, which could allow for jobs to use more than one weapon type.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

From a certain arbitrary point onward, neither the base class Arcanist, nor Summoners can use Scholar Books and Scholars can't use Arcanist/Summoner Books either. And not just the weapons are separate and can't be used by each other - The entire gear is split, as casters can't use healing gear.

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Frankly, since all job focus on only one main stat, I'd just fuse all of them into a "potency" stat so that jobs could share lots of gear.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

So, I'll rephrase my statement. I'd rather start new classes at level 30 and leveling several jobs at the same time than starting new jobs at level 50...or above.

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I myself was dismayed when SAM and RDM started off at 50... next expac they may start off at 60 which would be just silly but... It's the opposite effect of having to start off at 1. You have so many abilities it is hard to determine how the job functions without spending time reading all the tooltips. So now we overwhelm vs underwhelm. I think 30 is the golden point to start off but by then no point in having classes.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

I think 30 is the golden point to start off but by then no point in having classes.

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Considering class skills go up to level 50, it would still be useful for having a common backbone for multiple jobs. If we keep one job for one class, then, yes, classes are useless now that the cross-class skills are gone.
And, if classes are useless, then, again, the whole armory system is too, since Crystals are enough to lock your job.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

And, if classes are useless, then, again, the whole armory system is too, since Crystals are enough to lock your job.

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Well and I don't see them ever reverting that since they have to support 1.0 players.