Growing tired of this Stigma

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

The problem lies with jobs that offer utility straight-up out-damaging the selfish jobs, or being right on their tail. There is an O6S parse where an orange-tier BLM only outDPS’d an orange-tier SMN by 200, and the BLM had 13 Balances. The SMN had 7~8 Balances. That’s a problem, when you take two consistent, high-level players, and the “selfish DPS” only pulls ahead by 200 DPS with double the amount of padding.

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Who cares though all these meta essays you keep writing throughout this thread are completely irrelevant outside of less then 5% of the community.

The problem is with the rest of the community who thinks they are part of that 5% rather then the jobs themselves

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Those are personal damage calculations. Dragoon has lower personal DPS but provides upwards over 600+ rDPS; more if you run both Bard and Machinist. The argument lies that utility buffs wind up contributing more overall damage than selfish jobs can produce. And this isn't even accounting for support utility like Refresh.

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A samurai and a black mage should be more than 600 DPS above a dragoon. I did take rDPS into account hun. Summoner and monk are the only kinks in that logic. They both offer strong utility and damage output close to the 'Pure' damage dealers. But, what can we do about it. shrug.

I just play what I like and play it as optimally as I can. Works well for me. I never get kicked out of things.

There really shouldn't be a stigma since playing a sub-optimal job is probably not going to be the thing that makes a run fail. People need to focus on playing their jobs well, learning the battle mechanics and working well together as a group. Like.. doesn't every fight have enough leeway that you don't need the meta party composition to be done before enrage? Well I can't blame people for trying to make things easier and go meta but hopefully there are enough people who don't care about that for you to still form your own PF and fill it. There will always be some mathematically superior jobs no matter how tight the balancing gets and some people will always look to exclude the lower ones even if the difference between them is less than 1%.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

You obviously don't know how to read if that's what you think.
White Mages certainly appreciate manashifting when they run low on Mana when burning cool-downs.
You obviously didn't think about this.

Oh and what's next? That white mage sucks because I had to manashift? Yeah.....cute excuse. It's called teamwork....help the party out.
Everything in this game is not savage related either.

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Your point makes zero sense because you are trying to preach about unique JOB utility and talking about a ROLE action that can be used by multiple jobs. The amount of mana restored from MS is completely negligible and next to completely useless aside from very rare and unique situations. You can't put MS on the level of something like battle litany, chain stratagem, balance, and Trick Attack where those are leaps and bounds better than some useless role ability. Seriously can't believe you are trying to pass MS off as any kind of decent utility, because it's not.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

Who cares though all these meta essays you keep writing throughout this thread are completely irrelevant outside of less then 5% of the community.

The problem is with the rest of the community who thinks they are part of that 5% rather then the jobs themselves

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Apparently the people who argue with me care. /shrug

My “essays” seem pretty relevant, because there is a reason why the meta has been the meta since Creator, and why jobs like BLM and SAM will continue to fall short compared to meta jobs unless SE actually makes them selfish DPS that spit out a crapton of personal DPS over any job that offers utility. BLM is better than it was a patch ago, but it still isn’t competitive enough to kill the NIN/DRG/BRD/MCH meta. SAM isn’t in a good state right now because the devs don’t seem to see the need to actually make it a selfish DPS—MNKs are doing more damage overall over a SAM, and offer utility.

And maybe it only applies to the very top-end of content, but if there was nothing to complain about, there wouldn’t be threads every other day on here or on reddit complaining about it.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

there are 2 heal slots in a raid group and 3 healers so there will always be 1 non meta healer

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Which one need a healing buff?

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Originally Posted by Selova

Seriously can't believe you are trying to pass MS off as any kind of decent utility, because it's not.

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Not to beat the really dead horse (seriously more of a horse-flavored puddle at this point) but also RDM and SMN not only have access to manashift but use it better than BLM can without interrupting their DPS as much.

You did a great job, just thought this needed repeating.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Evidently not, hun.

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I envy this mic drop moment ;-;

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Originally Posted by AcaciaTyrannia

A samurai and a black mage should be more than 600 DPS above a dragoon. I did take rDPS into account hun. Summoner and monk are the only kinks in that logic. They both offer strong utility and damage output close to the 'Pure' damage dealers. But, what can we do about it. shrug.

I just play what I like and play it as optimally as I can. Works well for me. I never get kicked out of things.

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Evidently not, hun. Otherwise you wouldn't have cited FFlog top parses because it strictly lists personal DPS not rDPS. ;)

http://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/encount...r84bBjLdHx7Z/6
http://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/encount...XxK6wP3CDW8G/7

Here's an actual example of rDPS. The highest ranked SAM only managed 106 DPS above a 99% Ninja. And notice the substantial discrepancy between the Bards? Had an equally skilled DRG been slotted into the second group over SAM, they would have done more rDPS. The whole reason SAM needs a buff is it doesn't contribute enough to offset what DRG or NIN bring. Black Mage, on the other hand, is much closer now, coincidentally after the devs finally buffed it.

Good for you? This isn't a debate about preferences or viability as everything can clear. You're trying to claim SAM brings enough DPS to offset DRG when that simply isn't true. If it were, DRG wouldn't be meta.

Why are so many people hating on mana shift? I love mana shift T_T

This coming from someone who rarely ever tries savage/EX because of the rampant toxicity in the community: If they think they can't clear the content with a certain class, its probably not worth joining their party in the first place.