Hissatsu: Seigan should reduce enmity

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Originally Posted by Pavise

Enmity is not an issue if the tank isn't a halfwit.

If you go into your DPS stance ensure you return back to your tank stance and throw out some Enmity combos outside of your burst if you're having struggles with threat.

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If the DPS have already used Diversion, I agree. If not... let them die until they figure out how Diversion works. Aggro isn't solely a tank's responsibility. That being said, I do agree Samurai and Monk could use additional aggro dumps. As someone already pointed out, both Dragoon and Ninja can cut their aggro instantly, alongside using Diversion if necessary. Why not give the other two melee a similar option?

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Originally Posted by gyaos

Don't have a tank leveled, so not really sure what's happening here, but is it because the tanks are getting greedy in DPS stance that we gain so much enmity?

I agree with adding another trait to something dealing with third eye procs to reduce enmity/make it more useful.

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Not necessarily. Samurai simply generates an insane amount of aggro that they will inevitably force tanks to use a threat combo far more often than they otherwise would with any other comp, though Monk nips pretty close. Unlike every other job, Samurai and Monk only have one option to reduce aggro. And it's on a two minute cooldown. Dragoon can cut their aggro in half every thirty seconds while Ninja transfers 80% of the aggro they generate to the tank basically every two minutes. Both can also take Diversion. So it's more an issue with Samurai and Monk than tanks being greedy.

Hello

It would be really good for Samurai something more than just Diversión, indeed, it would be really good something like Shadewalker from Ninja.

Samurai deals a lot of dmg single target, the highest i think, so some kind of Damage Support is out of the table, but some kind of agro management could be really good for game health. Ninja is actually mandatory, because TA and agro management, and that kind of situation is not good for game's health i think.

Having Seigan reduce threat for the Samurai sounds okay, but I am sure the healers would like our DPS classes to have more preventative measures rather than react to taking hits and healing through it. It's also a level 66 ability, so it wouldn't be up for most other level synced instances. Another possibility is the Kenki move Yaten. The Samurai would just use Yaten > Enhanced Enpi > Gyoten. Of course if we want the threat dump for all levels of dungeons, Third Eye (level 6) could be a target too.

For monks, it's hard to suggest a threat dump for them that can at least make a little sense with lore. One Ilm Punch comes to mind to make the enemies laugh at you not feeling much pain from it. Giggle, that tickles! Another possibility is Fist of Wind getting a base threat reduction modifier to attacks. I do admit this will still be hard to explain lore wise since Ninjas already move faster without the need for stances.

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Originally Posted by Tigore

Having Seigan reduce threat for the Samurai sounds okay, but I am sure the healers would like our DPS classes to have more preventative measures rather than react to taking hits and healing through it. It's also a level 66 ability, so it wouldn't be up for most other level synced instances. Another possibility is the Kenki move Yaten. The Samurai would just use Yaten > Enhanced Enpi > Gyoten. Of course if we want the threat dump for all levels of dungeons, Third Eye (level 6) could be a target too.

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Yanten>Enpi>Gyoten is one I've suggested in the past too, and makes to most sense considering Elusive Jump for Dragoons also halves their enmity, so the Samurai jump back move ought to do the same. I would also suggest Sukichi do it for Ninja, and perhaps rework Fists of Wind on monk to reduce enmity. With the changes to sprint, there's zero reason for Fists of Wind to exist anymore except for running through town.

I do spam Third Eye and Seigan, what's so hard about it? I literally spam that.

@ Tanathya

I don't think he is complaining about Seigan being hard to use. It would be nice if Third Eye lasted longer than 3s for the trigger, but that's a bit off topic for quality of life.

Cabalabob is more asking for a baseline threat / enmity dump for Samurai since they only have Diversion and they generate the highest personal DPS for single target. Other than Monks, the other classes have a few more ways to dump threat. Even Black Mages can dump threat better with Lucid Dreaming as a possibility . . . I have been in a few runs where another Samurai did use Diversion and it still wasn't good enough. Pretty much the only thing we can do currently is beg the Ninja to Smoke Bomb the Samurai or Monk to reduce their threat and have the Ninja give their threat to the tank with Shadewalker. Since PuGs don't always have a Ninja doing those 2 things, the threat dump is requested to cover for those times.

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Originally Posted by Rhyn

DPS not using diversion (especially high threat jobs) is easily solved by letting them grab aggro and die. When they get ressed they don't have any threat! Free Lucid Dream!

Yes a tank can use more aggro generators, but that's exactly why we're in this situation. DPS needs to learn the hard way. If the tank curtails his own dps by using the aggro combo more to compensate because DPS don't use a -completely free ability that should be used constantly-, it's a net dps loss for the group.

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Until you tank for a DPS that knows how to play their job, that is... Using Diversion on cool down doesn't help nearly as much as you think it does. More damage means more hate, despite any hate mitigation we may or may not have.

Using your insanely flawed logic, the best way for me to mitigate my hate is to... stop attacking? You want me to play my job less efficiently so you can be justified in playing yours less efficiently?

Let me make this clear: YOU. ARE. A. TANK.
If you can't hold hate off the rest of the party, you are failing at your primary role.

"Letting them learn the hard way" is just a way for you to justify your inability to do YOUR job right.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Yanten>Enpi>Gyoten is one I've suggested in the past too, and makes to most sense considering Elusive Jump for Dragoons also halves their enmity, so the Samurai jump back move ought to do the same. I would also suggest Sukichi do it for Ninja, and perhaps rework Fists of Wind on monk to reduce enmity. With the changes to sprint, there's zero reason for Fists of Wind to exist anymore except for running through town.

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Honestly, just put it on Yanten. If I had to choose between riding the tank's ass and using Enpi, I'd ride the tank's ass all day.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Honestly, just put it on Yanten. If I had to choose between riding the tank's ass and using Enpi, I'd ride the tank's ass all day.

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Yanten would definitely be the skill with the agro dump, just you'd have to make enhanced Enpi and Gyoten worth it enough in terms of damage dealt to encourage some samurai to actually use the combo. As it currently stands, there's pretty much no reason to do it.

Someone mentioned that invigorate should have the same function as lucid dreaming (cuts aggro in half). That would be a great feature that would solve MNK's and SAM's aggro issues and at the same time makes ninja less mandatory than now, since every dps role would have an aggro dump (invig/lucid/tactician/refresh).