Put VIT back in Tank Damage Calculation.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Tryhards? lol. Enjoying a tiny bit of challenge has nothing to do with being a "tryhard." It has to do with playing a game. Games are by definition engagements in which you can lose. If you want aggro to be basically automatic, then may as well use a bot instead of a "normal human being."

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It's a balance though. Too easy and yes, you could use a bot for it, but too difficult and it deters people. Right now, it's fine for higher-end players who enjoy the challenge, but not for casual players who make up the majority of subs.

Backward on tanks, forward on healers

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Originally Posted by LordLucavi

I would go into a long post about the way SE is trending to enforce the role trinity, about how they admitted dps checks in certain savage content was set too high, wtc. But it all boils down to this: deal with the changes. Use your enmity generators more instead of worrying about your dps. You want big numbers, go play a dps. You wanna tank, then tank and pull your head out of the "MAH DEEPS" (0 _ ° ) mentality.

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And while we are dealing with these changes, we can give feedback to SE because they did say they would be a bit more open about changes due to how much classes were changed. If we aren't vocal and don't give feedback, the problem we are having won't go away. I am still tanking and dealing with these changes but that by no means equal me being content with the current state of tanks. Many of us are seeing a long term problem and there is no reason for us to wait until it is too late to send in feedback.

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

thx ive been raiding for over 5 years in here + other mmos ^^

theres a reason why we have a trinity system wich means:

tanks tank in tank stance : does less dmg

dps = obviously doing dps :P

healers = heal with focus on healing and some dps.

everyone is capable to solo stuff.

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I'll counter your 5 years with my 12 years.

I feel like you aren't really reading many of posts being made. The issue at hand is because due to how our entire right side has no strength meaning no primary damage stat scaling, which negatively impacts our ability to hold aggro. It may be fine now, but it will get worse and worse as the damage gap gets larger. We aren't asking for DPS levels of damage, we are concerned about a potential detriment to main job of tanking: holding aggro. Nevermind the issue with tanking being less fun and thus increasing queue times for DPS classes being a serious for the game's overall health.

It isn't good for tanks, it isn't good for DPS, and by extension probably not good for healers, albeit they seem to be the least affected by this (though they seem to have their own problems, but I don't play healer so I can't comment on that).

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

Yeah I did Bardam's Mettle just now and the WAR was having trouble holding aggro with a few overpowers. We had a RDM and a BLM. To be fair, he did seem new or something, considering he opened with Provoke when the mob was pretty close to him. IMO SE needs to do something about DPS outpacing tanks when it comes to AP.

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http://i.imgur.com/q3iCWqE.gif

I've noticed I've had a bit less aggro since Stormblood, and I agree this needs to be changed back. Tanks should -never- have to struggle to maintain aggro, not even against the highest dps or healers. Tanking should be about surviving and mitigating damage well.

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

So far though. The issue is that with how things are at the moment, unless tenacity has some miraculous scaling that spikes at certain point, the damage gap between tanks and dps are just going to get larger and larger. Because damage affects aggro, it will get harder and harder to maintain aggro. Hell, even now I sometimes see aggro getting ripped off me after 3-4 Abyssal Drains and it is only going to get worse as gear improves.

I feel like people don't understand thar as gear improves, the damage gap between tanks and dps will increase and maintaining aggro will become harder and harder due to that gap widening. This is a long term issue.

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I just don't see how you're losing aggro.

To be honest I don't know why they changed the 0.4 or was it 0.45 scaling for vit and str, it was a nice balance if they want to keep tanks in tank stance just make shit hit harder the reason MT's went into dps stance is cause there was no threat of being hurt much outside of a tank buster in creator savage. This is just punishment for no reason, all they have done is rolled us back to 3.0 but this time we can't wear str jewellery and with the increase in damage the dps do screwed over enmity generation and I am not talking about bad dps there easy to keep agro off but if you have dps doing near enough 5k+ aoe'ing trash the enmity they generate is mad so were forced to be sub optimal and can't even use tools we have been given which is slowly causing the amount of active tanks to get smaller.

Worst part - This was a ninja nerf that was never reported.

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Originally Posted by cporter

I just don't see how you're losing aggro.

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You have not been tanking with really good dps then, you will notice the difference in agro if you play with good dps.

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Originally Posted by Yurihyuga

You have not been tanking with really good dps then, you will notice the difference in agro if you play with good dps.

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FIght or flight +Shield lob + Spirits within + Circle of scorn on pull, followed rage of Halone combo, followed by goring blade combo, followed by Reprisal to mitigate Assail and after that Requiescat + Holy spirit until out of mana, Goring blade, and royal authority combo. Doing this at the start of Susano EX I have never lost aggro. To be honest I remember when A1s was new someone told me if I didn't have STR accessories on he was gonna "Rip the aggro right off me". I just laughed at him and continued to wear my VIT accessories. Needless to say he never pulled aggro off of me in Faust or the encounter after. If you're losing aggro you need to stop dpsing and focus on your threat combo. Fact is if you're losing aggro you're probably trying too hard to DPS.

as paladin 70, in fight i'm forced to spam flash in big pull, litterally, if the people with me are well equiped i have no choice in the matter... since the enemity from the other tool are too weak...
when you see that the aoe attack only deal around 1700-1800 of damage, when most of the dps will deal 5000+ you can't expect the tank to keep the aggros. they did give us tool sadly, our damage output is soo low that use something outside the main aggro tool is simply impossible.

the only moment i can use something else from my spam flash is when i'm with weak dps. and i will not talk of the dps as ot, it's ridiculous... it's pain me and make it hard to say play tank when solo is a pain. killing anything in solo can be dreadfull.... they need to reverse this change and make vit the main stats one more time... nerf the tank damage have not make tanking more challenging, only more simple... we are forced to use the tool that generate the most enmity. nothing else...

for information i do have a sam 70 and working on my ninja (61) and at best my paladin can deal 7000 with holy spirit with all the buff possible in critical. when i see that my sam can throw 10k with finisher of his combo, like gekko and such. and behind still have attack that can reach the 25k... even my ninja can easily overpower my paladin in terms of dps... i have no reason to play my paladin outside dungeon, and when i will fully equiped... well... no more reason anymore and means one less tank for the duty.

no tank will continue to play tank for anything else than dailies... SE is playing with a dangerous fire here... make the tank less interesting and soo boring is dangerous, and make it soo weak in terms of power for when it don't tank is kinda bad. it's why we do get a nerf of damage in tank stance.

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Originally Posted by cporter

FIght or flight +Shield lob + Spirits within + Circle of scorn on pull, followed rage of Halone combo, followed by goring blade combo, followed by Reprisal to mitigate Assail and after that Requiescat + Holy spirit until out of mana, Goring blade, and royal authority combo. Doing this at the start of Susano EX I have never lost aggro. To be honest I remember when A1s was new someone told me if I didn't have STR accessories on he was gonna "Rip the aggro right off me". I just laughed at him and continued to wear my VIT accessories. Needless to say he never pulled aggro off of me in Faust or the encounter after. If you're losing aggro you need to stop dpsing and focus on your threat combo. Fact is if you're losing aggro you're probably trying too hard to DPS.

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i want to point that a lot of dps have get tool for reduce them aggros, like diversion and lucid dream. (this last one being really insane by the way) it's normaly i will say, the trouble is give back tank a sense to be a level 70... because right i feel barely like i was 50 in terms of power. the aggro was never a trouble, if you charge up a lot of attack from halone combo it's not hard to tank, even if they reduce our damage to 1... since this are tool made for this. but raid boss are not the only content around... and honestly in dungeon outside spam flash i have not a lot of solution for big pull...

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Originally Posted by Yurihyuga

-snip-

Worst part - This was a ninja nerf that was never reported.


You have not been tanking with really good dps then, you will notice the difference in agro if you play with good dps.

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My guess is they wanted to tune tank damage and HP separately. See, with 0.45 AP if SE increased VIT on gear they would increase tank damage at the same time.

Also, it wasn't exactly a ninja nerf if you were paying close attention to the live letter. The translator wasn't very clear but on-the-fly translation is hard.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...nge/?limit=500