Are role actions a nerf?

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Originally Posted by Derio

Why is esuna even an option, it should be a given

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because not every fight needs it, i just did all my EX Primals on WT this week and didn't see a need to use it one time.

I don't see it so much as a nerf, it allows them to possibly create powerful role based skills later on, whether it's these or new ones because they know we can't have all of them. Still....

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Originally Posted by DatPotato

Well, 1 month after game, there's gonna be à méta, and all classes will have the 5 same cross-skill so... *shrug*

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This, if it's one thing most people are good at it's telling others exactly what should be the norm. We will have a set skill list and yes you will have some people who don't go by it, and some who do. Just like now you have some who do their rotations and some who don't. We will have a staple, whether it's overall or within certain content. The second the first Mr. Happy video comes out and says "We needed both Healers and Casters to have Erase and Esuna" the world will go "You need it..100%..no other way man..no other way."

I think healer is just the easiest one to pick on. We still don't know a lot of things, how the existing skills are adjusted. This could make changes in how we see these role based skills.

I can understand the concerns, not having something you've been so use to for so long is hard to see it go. Then again, if things are that bad they will change it. They seem to have an idea and a mindset to how this will work out, we need to let it play out. I'll admit I'm on the fence about Esuna. I'm so comfy having it, to think it might not be there because I forgot isn't a great feeling.

On the other hand I wonder how often am I going to use Break...so I feel it will always be there.

One thing I'm noticing in all of these threads, people are talking about certain actions being gone that weren't mentioned in the live letter. Are we sure these are gone or are we speculating they're gone because we don't see them on Yoshi-P's Hotbar?

I don't believe it is a nerf so much as actively taking skills in with you that you know you'll need. If a dungeon has nothing that will inflict statuses that can be removed, there's no reason for esuna to take up space on your hotbar. If you know a boss doesn't physically attack much, there's no reason to bring eye for an eye. I see this an an incentive to actually pre-plan and will help set the difference between an active healer than healers that just heal or just DPS, but don't remove effects. At lower levels, scholars and some other active healers already protect, then swap it out for cleric stance.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

I don't believe it is a nerf so much as actively taking skills in with you that you know you'll need. If a dungeon has nothing that will inflict statuses that can be removed, there's no reason for esuna to take up space on your hotbar. If you know a boss doesn't physically attack much, there's no reason to bring eye for an eye. I see this an an incentive to actually pre-plan and will help set the difference between an active healer than healers that just heal or just DPS, but don't remove effects. At lower levels, scholars and some other active healers already protect, then swap it out for cleric stance.

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Yep, honestly this new system will probably be where the core group finds ways to get back some of the lost power gap by being able to delegate around certain reqs with superior coordination abilities.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Losing Aero and Blizzard 2 will be a mild DPS nerf for SCH as things stand. No stoneskin could be considered a nerf for AST in particular (I'll certainly miss it).

I suspect it's very quickly going to turn into a cookie cutter situation. I can see myself almost guaranteed to just roll with Prot/Lucid/DS/Esuna/E4E or Virus and maybe switching esuna out for cleric where it's relevant if I actually remember to (and then promptly getting someone killed because I forgot to switch back and couldn't dispel doom ;) )

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Losing Blizzard 2?! That's a huge pvp nerf to schs that they didn't need! (they are already the weakest healer in pvp) They will have no CCs that work in pvp now D: And to all healers in pvp in general! I use it a lot on my astro too! Whms in pvp would be even better than the other healers in pvp, as whm will still be able to bind, as well as sleep, and stun. Astro will only have stun, and sch will have nothing.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Losing Blizzard 2?! That's a huge pvp nerf to schs that they didn't need! (they are already the weakest healer in pvp) They will have no CCs that work in pvp now D: And to all healers in pvp in general! I use it a lot on my astro too!

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I could be misremembering, but if that isn't the case, I believe they said that PvP and PvE will be entirely different action sets in Stormblood.

I mean when they said cross role I thought they meant that like for like not crossing dps skills with tank skills, like warrior and no internal release , or pali not having stone skin, but they took thing a step further and took actual useful skills from jobs for no reason other than they cool this is just not cool to me

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I mean when they said cross role I thought they meant that like for like not crossing dps skills with tank skills, like warrior and no internal release , or pali not having stone skin, but they took thing a step further and took actual useful skills from jobs for no reason other than they cool this is just not cool to me

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I don't believe we have seen evidence of them taking things away. IE just because Esuna is a cross-role option doesn't inherantly mean that WHM do not get it innately. Maybe they do, maybe they don't... but I don't think we know for sure either way yet.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Losing Blizzard 2?! That's a huge pvp nerf to schs that they didn't need!

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you need to check the entire PvP portion of the Live Letter.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

but they took thing a step further and took actual useful skills from jobs for no reason other than they cool this is just not cool to me

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all the things they took are things that every one of the jobs in that role should be able to do. like Provoke, Goad, Esuna, that's a very good reason.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

you need to check the entire PvP portion of the Live Letter.

all the things they took are things that every one of the jobs in that role should be able to do. like Provoke, Goad, Esuna, that's a very good reason.

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Like he said here, the pvp skill set will be vastly different from what we know, and this new system will have like no interaction with it. From what it seems like, most classes will keep base rotations and vital skills amounting to 9, 2 chosen skills, and 2 traits. For about 13 skills during pvp.

Healers will most like have basic heal, aoe heal, unique heal, and a badic dmg skill of sorts.

So SCH your lookin at Physick, Succor, Adloq, Boil being your basic kit, if all 9 are from current usable skills, expect your 3 dots, and aetherflow. Im assuming faerie will either be there or compensated like the current faerie loss skill.

For the class job skill loss point. This mostly FEELS like a nerf to the source jobs, and there are a select few that were heavy donors where it will be felt more, WHM/PLD/DRG/MNK are in this category. But for the most part they simply removed vital and highly situational CC/Support abilities that everyone can need access to and moved them here, and in some cases everyone lost for the same like Esuna, most likely Leeches and Exalted Detriment are gone as well. Now across the board it seems simple +dmg OGCD Buffs have been removed and put into more interesting mechanics or worked into other abilities. But from how it seems everyone lost parts of their kit thatll have to be regained, and enough of the often took XCs are gone to use those slots on heavy donor jobs to regain previously natural vital skills. I.E. Paladin no longer has access to Protect, Stoneskin, Cure, Bloodbath, Mercy Stroke, and Foresight in their XCS but the new XRS have their previously native Rampart, Provoke, Conva, Awareness. Before PLD could pretty much function just fine without any XCS while WAR/DRK were pretty much crippled without a lvl 22-34 GLD. So its mostly not as bad as the current freak out is making it seem, and it will itch a bit this june for those who played the heavy donors, but likely by july most of us will barely even notice the problems anymore. Without a doubt, we are gaining a substantially better toolkit to choose out of than the previous system, and for new players and characters a vastly easier to obtain one. So please give it some time and try to loom at the whole picture of whats moving in and out of places with the new system before dropping OMFG MY JOB IS REKD!