Let's Get Rid of Cross Class Ability Restrictions

This is sort of hard to fix issue, because the system would work great for a BARE class ala FF5, but with traited skills you could have paladins raising in battle, some more mitigation on foresight, less risky b4b a decent keen flurry etc. Then you have the baffling skills that mrd and gld provide: skull sunder savage blade riot blade. Just why? they have to be comboed after specific skills that arent even cross class-able, i would think rampart or berserk or anything else would be a better pick tbh. Balance aside

Also dont get why archer cannot use goad, but gladiator can, and death blossom

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Originally Posted by Zari

Wait so the current one is an illusion of choice but removing the restrictions wouldn't also be the same damn thing? People would find whatever the new mandatory cross class skills are and take those. It is the same damn thing

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No you'd have the choice to take what you want to take. Unlike others I see little need to optimize damage in scripted encounters. Only reason my BLM does now is simply there is nothing else to take. You could choose to pump those numbers or bring utility. It gives you options. But if you hate options and would prefer the design philosophy to hold your hand by all means stick with what you have now.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

No you'd have the choice to take what you want to take. Unlike others I see little need to optimize damage in scripted encounters. Only reason my BLM does now is simply there is nothing else to take. You could choose to pump those numbers or bring utility. It gives you options. But if you hate options and would prefer the design philosophy to hold your hand by all means stick with what you have now.

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You would take abilities that would not optimize your DPS? Really?

This game is set up where healers and BRD/MCH can handle support like functions. If I knew you were intentionally not using abilities to optimize your DPS over support functions not needed, I would have no problem kicking you out.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

No you'd have the choice to take what you want to take. Unlike others I see little need to optimize damage in scripted encounters. Only reason my BLM does now is simply there is nothing else to take. You could choose to pump those numbers or bring utility. It gives you options. But if you hate options and would prefer the design philosophy to hold your hand by all means stick with what you have now.

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Honestly, if that utility doesn't end up a potential very near or further increase to raid DPS, it's not really a choice.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Why not? Could be a fun experiment. Do you hate fun?

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It just started sounding more irrelevant than fun-seeking when you said you wouldn't be optomizing dps. Note that you didn't just say 'personal' dps or the like. Instead you mentioned scripted encounters, negatively I'd assume... despite that being where you can in turn script out your utility decisions to create the least clash or repetition. Fun-seeking to most MMO players, I honestly think, is optomization. The more innovations the game allows, the more complications that form from intuitive and/or tactically-minded adaptations to those means of adaptations, the more fun. Saying that something will be "fun" regardless its actual usability... tends not to live up to its description. I'd imagine that's why you're being met skeptically.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I see. So all people care about is optimal DPS. Makes sense. Ultimately boring. If the skills we have now are mandatory they should simply scrap the CC system and place skills that grant the same effects within the job's own skill kit.

I mean if we really do have no choice then they can at least be honest about it.

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They've been honest about this part of MMO gaming since you saw your first floating combat text. This is a number game. Not a dance-off—which, upon digitalization, would probably also be a number game. Healing, enfeeblements, TP refreshes, kiting, tanking, CCing, etc., are all effectively raid DPS increases. The fight or relevant portion of it ends more quickly or with fewer resources necessary for later combat spent because of that combination of effects. Does that make them boring?

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Originally Posted by Velhart

You would take abilities that would not optimize your DPS? Really?

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Why not? Could be a fun experiment. Do you hate fun?

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Honestly, if that utility doesn't end up a potential very near or further increase to raid DPS, it's not really a choice.

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I see. So all people care about is optimal DPS. Makes sense. Ultimately boring. If the skills we have now are mandatory they should simply scrap the CC system and place skills that grant the same effects within the job's own skill kit.

I mean if we really do have no choice then they can at least be honest about it.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

This is sort of hard to fix issue, because the system would work great for a BARE class ala FF5, but with traited skills you could have paladins raising in battle, some more mitigation on foresight, less risky b4b a decent keen flurry etc. Then you have the baffling skills that mrd and gld provide: skull sunder savage blade riot blade. Just why? they have to be comboed after specific skills that arent even cross class-able, i would think rampart or berserk or anything else would be a better pick tbh. Balance aside.

Also dont get why archer cannot use goad, but gladiator can, and death blossom.

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I have absolutely no idea how they chose who would and who would not get access to Rogue skills, or why non-native tank cross-classes are even available to the other tanks. At least they come with some cool animations. (DRK Skull Sunder is the funniest shit.)

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

If BLM could cross class every single skill that anyone can cross class, they would have 5 abilities that could increase dps, and that's including Straight Shot and Aero. Are either of those a larger dps increase than a melee/tank getting a Goad?

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Gotta ask, did you read Velhart's post on the very first page? Moreover, if it's giving TP in a fight long enough for a Bard's not having to Paeon (which, like Ballad, is always partly wasteful, AND dps-decreasing) to outweigh the minor advantages of any other buffing ability, it's giving DPS.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

You would take abilities that would not optimize your DPS? Really?

This game is set up where healers and BRD/MCH can handle support like functions. If I knew you were intentionally not using abilities to optimize your DPS over support functions not needed, I would have no problem kicking you out.

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If BLM could cross class every single skill that anyone can cross class, they would have 5 abilities that could increase dps, and that's including Straight Shot and Aero. Are either of those a larger dps increase than a melee/tank getting a Goad?

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Why not? Could be a fun experiment. Do you hate fun?

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What is fun about using useless support abilities? What is fun is optimizing DPS and seeing your numbers get higher. What is fun is working hard in a fight to make sure my contribution to the team is as high as my ability as a player can take it to.

Also, fun lies in the content itself, not what you can customize your bar with.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

If BLM could cross class every single skill that anyone can cross class, they would have 5 abilities that could increase dps, and that's including Straight Shot and Aero. Are either of those a larger dps increase than a melee/tank getting a Goad?

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Actually, it sounds completely broken. Everyone level Ninja and put Goad on for a rotation.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Why not? Could be a fun experiment. Do you hate fun?

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Could give them a stick with 1 stat of whatever as long as it balance they'll say. It will require work to keep anything balance but to keep it simple for the sake of keeping something simple is just being lazy. I'm not a fan of the cross class abilities it pretty bland compare to other mmo's. I think what's is actually lacking is some horizontal progression but nothing to crazy at first and introduce it with the new features and keep the current formula for the vertical the same if need be. /shrug

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Actually, it sounds completely broken. Everyone level Ninja and put Goad on for a rotation.

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Skill speed becomes not-junk, I can imagine worse things.