Anima Weapons. Putting things into perspective.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

Except, it does fit the intended design, it isn't excessive, and there's nothing wrong with it. I'd bet you that a dedicated grinder can upgrade their anima faster than a dedicated raider can clear all turns of the newest raid content AND get their weapon drop from it. Just because you feel something is excessive doesn't mean everyone does. Just because you think the grind is too much doesn't mean that everyone does.

That's a thing you understand, right? This isn't rocket science.

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It cannot fit the intended design. The intended design was that it would be comparable in difficulty to other methods of obtaining 210 weapons, and at the time the only other method was quite difficult. If you seriously think that the entire third step is equivalent to running Void Ark once and earning 490 esoterics, which is the only way for it to still fit the intended design, then you are delusional.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

I don't even get why anyone is complaining here. Just get a lore weapon! If you want easy, THAT is easy!

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That is the point. The grind is meant to be equal effort relative to how difficult it is to get the alternatives. With this unless you already have the 210 anima the grind is not worth it at all when you can just run A8 normal once a week for 7 weeks and save up some lore and get a different 230 weapon for barely any effort.

The problem is they are making the anima less appealing than they want it to be

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Originally Posted by Berethos

It cannot fit the intended design. The intended design was that it would be comparable in difficulty to other methods of obtaining 210 weapons, and at the time the only other method was quite difficult. If you seriously think that the entire third step is equivalent to running Void Ark once and earning 490 esoterics, which is the only way for it to still fit the intended design, then you are delusional.

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Are you seriously going to make a comparison that only looks at a single step? Talk about cherry picking! To use your argument, if you seriously think that the entire Alexander: Midas Savage raid is equivalent to the fourth step, then you are delusional.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

Are you seriously going to make a comparison that only looks at a single step? Talk about cherry picking! To use your argument, if you seriously think that the entire Alexander: Midas Savage raid is equivalent to the fourth step, then you are delusional.

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Except you can get the same weapon that is in savage for practically no effort

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Originally Posted by Thayos

It's still far easier for the average player to get a 210 animus weapon than it is to clear nerfed hardcore raid content.

All you need to get a 210 animus is 30 mins to an hour per night to run a couple roulettes or do beastman quests. You don't need to study youtube videos, don't need a a static and don't need to play mistake-free along with seven other people.

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A couple roulettes a night...so say one to get esoterics, and one to get poetics (let's go with 50 roulette, and let's say you get Keeper of the Lake every time for 100 additional poetics). For that, it's 200 poetics per run...135 runs of level 50 roulette. Now for the esoterics...take the 120 for doing the level 50 roulette, plus max 160 for the level 60 roulette and 140 for the expert roulette, and throw in another 60 for your trial. 56 sets of doing all 4 of those.

Say you mix in beastman tribe quests to reduce that...you're still looking at either roughly 5 days, give or take, to get one token (6 if guaranteed if you're doing the Vanu Vanu and Vath).

Then you need to obtain the crafted items, which depending on the server, your own crafting classes leveled, or the crafting classes your friends have, can either be silly expensive or stupid cheap.

All that for a 210 weapon.

Or you can run Void Ark once, do a couple level 60 roulettes, and get a 210 weapon.

They are seriously not at all equivalent.

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The problem is they are making the anima less appealing than they want it to be

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Except people who really wanted an 210 anima started working toward one back in December, and now all they need to do to get the i230 is run some old Crystal Tower. So this new step for folks who do relics IS very easy and appealing.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

Except, it does fit the intended design

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Here are Yoshi-P's own words on the design intent of the anima quests:

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Since it is currently only possible to obtain an item level 210 weapon from Alexander: Gordias (Savage), the time and effort required to create an Anima weapon was set to be roughly the same level with this as a benchmark.

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To paraphrase, the design intent for Anima weapons was (as of the last time it was shared with us) that the time and effort involved should be roughly equivalent to the time and effort involved in obtaining a weapon of the same item level through whatever other methods are available.

With that in mind, is the time and effort required to create an Anima weapon roughly the same as the time and effort required to obtain an item level 210 weapon via another method?

Is the time and effort required to create a hyperconductive Anima weapon currently roughly the same as the time and effort required to obtain an item level 230 weapon via another method?

If the answer to either of those questions is "no" (and you'd be hard pressed to come up with a compelling argument otherwise), then it does not fit the intended design as it was previously specified.

That's obviously not to say that SE can't change their intended design, but all we have to work with regarding their intent is the quote above.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

Are you seriously going to make a comparison that only looks at a single step? Talk about cherry picking! To use your argument, if you seriously think that the entire Alexander: Midas Savage raid is equivalent to the fourth step, then you are delusional.

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Why wouldn't I? The 210 to 230 step is not much more involved than the process to get a 230 lore weapon. One requires an easy to obtain 9000 esoterics, the other clearing easy normal content once a week for seven weeks, plus easy to obtain 1k lore.

The oddball out here is the 200 to 210 step. It wasn't when the only 210 weapons available came from savage, but that's no longer the case...and since the intended design for the relic is that it's the time-based equivalent of its equal obtained via raiding, it has to at least somewhat maintain that level of comparability or it no longer fits its intended design.

You're comparing apples and kumquats, or whatever fruit happens to back you up, to make your points. They never said that all weapons should be equally easy to get. They said specifically that getting from the start of the Anima quest to the 210 relic at its release was intended to be the same difficulty as clearing Alexander: Gordias (Savage) at its release.

Speaking personally, clearing Savage is literally impossible for me since I don't have a static, can only play in spurts of 30-45 minutes, can't use voice chat, and have a computer with a dying video card that seizes up randomly lowering my FPS to 1 for a couple minutes every so often. Grinding up a relic is entirely possible for me. So, for me, the relic is infinitely easier than clearing content that is literally impossible for me to clear.

On top of that, did you see the stats of the number of people who cleared Alexander: Gordias (Savage) when relics came out? It was something like 0.1% of the players or something. Whereas, anyone can get an anima relic if they put the time into it. It's not hard. At all. It's just a time sink.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

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But it doesnt justify why the 210 step is so much more of a Grind, in fact it doesn't neeed to be a grind any more, i expect however the 3.3 stage to be a real grind which im happy to do.