Tank Gear's Value for the Future.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I understand that, I play PLD, my comment about taank DPS included reference to PLD dps.

As for Warrior with Fell Cleave. Let me put it this way, I think Fell Cleave is a good demonstration of a broken and unbalanced skill. Why does a tank have the highest potency attack move (At least I think it is the highest potency physical attack) in the game? It's too powerful and upsets the balance between tanks and Damage dealers more than just about anything else there is. Having one tank being better at DPS than another is fine as long as the other tank has a counterbalancing apsect, whether it be more utility, or being more tanky. It' doesn't take a 500 potency attack to make that happen.

Tell you what though, Fell Cleave could be much improved by giving it a base potency of say, 300 and scaling that potency up inversely with the current HP of the warrior, with a max potency of 500. It would be a great risk/reward balance. You'd need to run your HP low to gain maximum benefit of course, and you'd want healers to maintain you at lower HP levels than are ideal for tanking...but that's another discussion.

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Why use that when you can go into Tank Stance, and use the same move (300 Potency) with damage reduction?

Unless its 300 Potency + Increases all damage taken by 10% (raid wide), it would be a useless skill.

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Inner_Beast

300 potency, also another component added.

Not worth it, IMO. I would just use Inner Beast.

I took it when I read about the change that VIT would be the entirety of damage calculation (like DEX is for Nin), but STR would have it's use in parry rate(or parry %, I always forget which str is) that being said, I doubt that a tank's damage will be lowered at ALL with this change, just that they'll be gaining it from VIT rather than STR, who knows though, I could be very wrong.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

.9 x 200 = 180

.9 x 300 = 270

270 - 180 = 90

So 10 deficit, which would obviously be better than my example. They're not making VIT = 1 and STR = 0, though, as STR is attached to all left side tank gear as well as them stating that it would still contribute to damage output.

All that said, I'm not saying OP is right, I was just trying to explain his point in simpler terms.

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Only if the amount of Vit on tank gear and the amount of Str on melee gear will be the same

A excelling VIT tank is going to hold hate on mobs, position properly, interrupt attacks when appropriate, mitigate, and stance dance to push damage. A STR tank in the current meta... does exactly the same thing. Tank damage is being recalculated, not neutered, so the tanks that excel before the patch will continue to do so after, regardless of the exact damage values they're able to put out.

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Originally Posted by Seryl199

A excelling VIT tank is going to hold hate on mobs, position properly, interrupt attacks when appropriate, mitigate, and stance dance to push damage. A STR tank in the current meta... does exactly the same thing. Tank damage is being recalculated, not neutered, so the tanks that excel before the patch will continue to do so after, regardless of the exact damage values they're able to put out.

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Except they
- Take less damage (Monster dies faster, so that reduces damage taken by default.)
- Hold hate better. (More damage, more hate.)

Yes, more damage = less damage taken = because monster dies faster.

Vitality
- Raises damage you take.
- Less Threat/Enmity.

I find it amusing at how the OP posses a legitimate question and everyone immediately disregards his query under non-arguments such as:

- "Just equip VIT and stop the STR Q_Q" - It's not even the point of the thread, it's about scaling in case anyone missed it.
- "We don't know/no source, therefore theorycraft is irrelevant". We actually do know enough, the only thing that we don't is the actual ratios, but we can guesswork an estimate since they already gave us the expected behavior (Similar Damage, VIT weighting more than STR). It's not really hard.
- "Don't worry about how your job works or what it awaits to it in the future. Just stroll through tanking blindly, have faith VIT will solve all and nothing bad will come out of this." Yeaaaaaah no.

As for the actual query, I'm glad some people took this seriously. OP's concern is valid: It has happened before, in case anyone already forgot about Block/Parry (It was scaling out of control for the devs, opposite of this current hypothetical but plausible situation).

Hopefully it mean adjustments down the road if the gap draws too big.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Except they
- Take less damage (Monster dies faster, so that reduces damage taken by default.)
- Hold hate better. (More damage, more hate.)

Yes, more damage = less damage taken = because monster dies faster.

Vitality
- Raises damage you take.
- Less Threat/Enmity.

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you're trying to push a future system settings through an outdated system setting (soon to be, at least) and it doesn't work that way.

SE never intended for tanks to use all slaying accessories in the first place and be doing like 90% of what a dps could do. That was done by players equipping str gear for their tanks. Of course we are going to see a decrease in tank damage if you use to wear all str in 3.1 but switch to vit in 3.2 there will be a decrease because of how damage modifiers work. SE is ok with this because it seemed they didn't like the high dps numbers tanks were doing in the first place due to people using str gear. SE expected tanks to be all full vit with all the fending stuff they put in the game.

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Originally Posted by Kyros

I find it amusing at how the OP posses a legitimate question and everyone immediately disregards his query under non-arguments such as:
- "Just equip VIT and stop the STR Q_Q" - It's not even the point of the thread, it's about scaling in case anyone missed it.
- "We don't know/no source, therefore theorycraft is irrelevant". We actually do know enough, the only thing that we don't is the actual ratios, but we can guesswork an estimate since they already gave us the expected behavior (Similar Damage, VIT weighting more than STR). It's not really hard.
- "Don't worry about how your job works or what it awaits to it in the future. Just stroll through tanking blindly, have faith VIT will solve all and nothing bad will come out of this." Yeaaaaaah no.

As for the actual query, I'm glad some people took this seriously. OP's concern is valid: It has happened before, in case anyone already forgot about Block/Parry (It was scaling out of control for the devs, opposite of this current hypothetical but plausible situation).

Hopefully it mean adjustments down the road if the gap draws too big.

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IMO the OP just pointed out that left side gear will be OP for tanks. If both VIT and STR increase damage, then they have two main stats affecting damage on their main gear vs 1 main stat for everyone else. They'll have some 230 chest piece with 130 VIT and 125 STR.

I am curious to see how all the scaling works out. Though, in my opinion tanks need a major damage nerf. So if this results in that, I am all for it.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

SE never intended for tanks to use all slaying accessories in the first place and be doing like 90% of what a dps could do. **snip**SE expected tanks to be all full vit with all the fending stuff they put in the game.

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Indeed. This will likely restore the balance between Tanks and Damage dealers, placing the 'burden' of damage dealing fully on the shoulders of Damage Dealers, and resolving any confusion between jobs and roles. Of course that means we will see even more threads asking how to deal with poor DPS from damage dealers...