is knockback rude?

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Originally Posted by DragonSlayer45

I only use knockback in PvE if:

A) The target is already close to a wall and the knockback is negligible.
B) I know the target is immune.
C) It is low on health and I know the knockback will kill it.

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I'd add a couple more to that list:
D) Necessity if the mob's coming after me and no melee players are on it, but I need it away from me to survive.
E) If it's casting something that really needs to be interrupted and the only interrupt I have available is a knockback.

But they're still all very specific circumstances. Throwing knockback attacks into the mix regularly, and on mobs the tank or other melee are attacking would be rude.

(When soloing, though, knockback attacks sure come in handy a lot.)

I have to outright tell my static healer that if you're knocking something back, I'm not going to tank it (she gets to learn the hard way). The way I pull keeps track of everythings positions. I can't have something suddenly hitting me from a side once it wanders on back. The tank is generally going to be the one keeping positions proper for DPS to do their positional attacks. The tank doesn't want someone else taking control suddenly. It's like someone pushing you out of the drivers seat in a car.
That being said, I'm currently levelling WHM and if I encounter tanks that like to number targets, I'll usually pick the highest number to send flying off so he doesn't get hit by it for a while. This is usually only the case in levelling roulette where a low level tank may not be adequately equipped making him harder to heal.

So I'm a bit of hypocrite, but if I'm ever asked to stop, I'll stop. I don't want to stop the tanks 'flow' because I know how annoying it can be.

If you play anything less than poop, you use it in one of three situations.

1. You're about to die
2. Kill shot
3. On a mob that doesn't get push back, IE: bosses. In that case you use it on cool down, off gcd.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I-snip-
That being said, I'm currently levelling WHM and if I encounter tanks that like to number targets, I'll usually pick the highest number to send flying off so he doesn't get hit by it for a while. This is usually only the case in levelling roulette where a low level tank may not be adequately equipped making him harder to heal.
So I'm a bit of hypocrite, but if I'm ever asked to stop, I'll stop. I don't want to stop the tanks 'flow' because I know how annoying it can be.

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Nah, this is actually good play, as long as you're making sure not to knock it behind them. If a tank gets pissy with you, explain to them why you're doing it. They need to learn that CC is a good thing to be used when used correctly.
Getting pissed at someone who's using it correctly only shows a lack of attentiveness and skill as a tank.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

That being said, I'm currently levelling WHM and if I encounter tanks that like to number targets, I'll usually pick the highest number to send flying off so he doesn't get hit by it for a while. This is usually only the case in levelling roulette where a low level tank may not be adequately equipped making him harder to heal.

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The problem with that practice is (since you and the tank are not mentally linked) often timing is going to be an issue and you'll end up knocking the mob away right when the tank was in the process of applying some AOE or specific-target threat. Combined with the fact that DPS doesn't always attack-by-numbers, and sometimes you'll end up pushing away a mob that the tank was barely holding threat on, and that moment of chaos you introduced is all that was needed for that particular mob to switch targets to some overzealous mage.

And now the tank looks like he screwed up.

Honestly, crowd control is best left to the tank. Now, if s/he messes up and something is charging towards you, by all means protect yourself and knock it away. But when I'm tanking a group of mobs I usually have a specific plan in mind to keep a hold of them, and that plan does not involve one of them getting thrown away from me. I usually have enough going on at any given moment to worry about additional randomness.

I don't care if a mage does it to me. It's such a insignificant DPS loss it doesn't really matter. People are just annoyed they have to run their character a few steps. Most of the time it's toward the direction of the end of the dungeon you were going toward anyways.

If there are multiple mobs just adapt to a mage doing that by switching to a different add and don't bother chasing it so you don't have DPS loss. normally the mage that did the knock back move, will do another move that will unbind them, and bring them back. If you're a BRD or BLM this shouldn't even affect you.


Dunno IMO being upset that someone does this, is like crying over spilt milk. It takes less than 3 seconds to wipe it up. Take your less than 1 second and just chase the mob >.> or like I said attack a different mob.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

I don't care if a mage does it to me. It's such a insignificant DPS loss it doesn't really matter. [...] If you're a BRD or BLM this shouldn't even affect you. [...]
Dunno IMO being upset that someone does this, is like crying over spilt milk. It takes less than 3 seconds to wipe it up. Take your less than 1 second and just chase the mob >.> or like I said attack a different mob.

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So... You're saying that the tank should just run off after the knocked-away mob, ruining whichever position they've placed the other mobs in to avoid cleaves/aoes to hit the wrong people, making everyone else run after, potentially interrupt casts and moving out of sight of the healer.... just to allow Garuda/Carbie/Machinists/Conjurer/WhiteMages to use that one attack? O.o It's usually not the DPS classes it's an issue for (apart from interrupting casts because of breaking LoS, potentially making a BLM lose Enochian or a SMN Dreadwyrm -- less knowledgable about how Dreadwyrm works, though). It's usually an issue for the tank, since the tank's responsible for making sure the mobs' don't hit the wrong people, including with cleaves and conal AoEs.

And yes, the mob likely comes back soon enough, but then there's the whole dance of getting that mob back into its proper position, especially if it's been knocked to the side or behind the tank. Parry/block only works for attacks coming from the front, so a mob positioned to the side or behind is an increase in damage taken. Plus there's a high chance it won't be hit by Overpower, which is the main group aggro skill for MRD/WAR ^^;

Like people have said, there are times when knockback attacks are good to use. And AFAIK the skill in question is more vital for MCH than it is for Garuda/Carbie or CNJ/WHM. But that doesn't mean it should be used wildly and everyone else should just deal with it. It's not just a matter of being annoyed over 'having to run a few steps'. Would you be equally happy about tanks pulling with Provoke in every single fight, expecting it to hold aggro for them for longer than a sneeze? ;)

SE Should remove the dmg potency from Knockback skills. At least then, people won't be compelled to use it in their rotations and it will allow for them to be primarily used for defensive/escape maneuvers.

I don't mind it, as a tank I just let it run back to me and I tap left or right to face again. As a healer it doesn't affect my play cause I'm usually doing something anyway, as a caster dps, which apparently I am noticing a lot of caster players here don't know the amazing function of the "face target" keybind. You hit that face target repeatedly during a cast, as long as the target doesn't run straight through you, and I mean mix pixels with you, you are blasting their face off. Works awesome in pvp

Not if you target the monster that they aren't fighting.

lets say you are fighting and they are numbered.

1. lizard <---- people are on lizard, if you fluid this and knock it back while people are fighting yeah I think its rude some have timers on moves that could expire if they couldnt get the hit off like dragoons, have to consider that on other hand if the monster is doing a AOE no its not rude rather it be knocked back to make move not work than to get hit by AOE.
2. rat <----- this would be ok
3. bandit <--- this would be ok

Reason lets say your a mechanist you shoot the bandit knock him back you can use Bind and lower the damage tank is taking. So that would be fine.