How would you feel if they scrapped the current "classes"?

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Originally Posted by Demacia

A warrior can't use both a spear and a bow at the same time.

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Hmm, I can't even picture that.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Hmm, I can't even picture that.

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Ranged weapon slot. I don't like being confined to throwing weapons as every class but archer.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

Ranged weapon slot. I don't like being confined to throwing weapons as every class but archer.

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Well you can switch to using a bow when you need to use a bow.

You have to disengage the mob in order to do so, but in FFXI it drained your TP to zero too, so it's not like you weren't sacrificing anything in that situation either.

There is nothing wrong with the classes or the class names. The problem is class roles.

^ and lack of identity.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Well you can switch to using a bow when you need to use a bow.

You have to disengage the mob in order to do so, but in FFXI it drained your TP to zero too, so it's not like you weren't sacrificing anything in that situation either.

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In FFXI I could just shoot it with my bow, then melee it when it got close, without losing TP. As SAM/RNG I could use the TP building abilities and melee weapon skills of Samurai combined with the great ranged abilities and powerful bow weapon skills of Ranger. I can't do that in XIV.

You've made it clear that you never played FFXI.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Oh... well that's more your own fault than the armory system's fault.

Most people don't play MMOs to be given everything. They like the idea of individual progression and expression. The armory system provides a basis for that, and also a basis for developing your own role.

Regardless of the weapon you choose to specialise in, you can choose a role independent of that. So although some people say that the armory system is boring because each class has only one weapon, that's incorrect, since each role can have all the weapons. It's all up to you.

The areas in which the armory system falls short (for the meantime) concern the fact that there is no way to enhance your role beyond a series of roles. For instance, if you want to be a DD magic-user (BLM), you are just as effective at healing (WHM). So even if you want to be a BLM, there's nothing differentiating you from a WHM. So most parties will insist you just heal.

If there was a way to enhance your role, both in demonstrating it visually to other players (AF gear etc), and also in bonus attributes, then the armory system could improve greatly to allow for greater role specialisations. Which, incidentally, is the thing you're complaining about.

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Thats not exactly true, I could not be a sword wielding THM in this as by equipping the sword my usefulness as a Mage diminishes greatly. However if the system was changed and not made dependant on the weapon but an actual class I could still be a fully functional THM with a sword as opposed to a "sword user" who can cast some spells.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

The areas in which the armory system falls short (for the meantime) concern the fact that there is no way to enhance your role beyond a series of roles. For instance, if you want to be a DD magic-user (BLM), you are just as effective at healing (WHM). So even if you want to be a BLM, there's nothing differentiating you from a WHM. So most parties will insist you just heal.

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This is basically what I'm talking about. To me there are not seven, but two different classes. War & Magic. At this point you can basically be either Disipline of War class and be the same, only with a different weapon in your hand.(Maybe a shield.) The same goes to Disipline of Magic. Both can heal or cast elemental magic. Where's the specialization in this system?

In XI, (Please don't misread. I'm not saying to put this in 14. Only a reference.) What made each job special was it's own unique way to instill a purpose of it's role. Now I'm not going to list them all, just a couple.

I. Paladin - Most plainly put was it's purpose was to distract the monster's attention and take the damage so it doesn't run rampant on the rest of the squad. It could also heal itself, but was never directly related to a White Mage generally because MP and actions dictated his role of keeping emnity.

II. Warrior - Not at first, but down the line's, a Warrior's purpose was to deal critical damage to the enemy and help defeat them. Now also, like the Paladin, it was also played with the sub job Ninja.(Not stating Ninja. It was a freak in XI and can't be placed.) A Warrior never resembled a Ninja, only implementing a couple abilities from the Ninja(Utsusemi, and Dual Wield) to further it's place as a DD.

III. Thief - Now this one has a unique purpose in itself. Illusion. It's purpose for, not all, but many a great deal in terms of group work was to give the illusion of emnity to another. That, as well as it's very high evasion, were sole purposes of these jobs.

Now I know what you're thinking, a lot of these traits could be shared. I know! What I'm trying to get at is that this current implementation has a very loose restriction as to what abilities and traits can be shared. A Warrior could give away his Berserk ability, but did it mean that the one who used it as a sub job would gain ALL abilities? No. Only up to a certain point.

If any of this seems rather hazey, I'm truly sorry. I'm just trying to show my side of the story. We need a firmer grip on abilities and traits that can or can't be crossed over to another class.

I seem to remember in XI that jobs were still bound to a single weapon because one was always optimal over the others and if you were, say, a warrior using anything other than a great axe you were generally blacklisted from group activities by the population at large.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

In FFXI I could just shoot it with my bow, then melee it when it got close, without losing TP. As SAM/RNG I could use the TP building abilities and melee weapon skills of Samurai combined with the great ranged abilities and powerful bow weapon skills of Ranger. I can't do that in XIV.

You've made it clear that you never played FFXI.

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Weird, whenever I played THF and meleed and then switched to crossbow, my TP went to zero. It's kind of beside the point anyway.

You have to separate the two systems, FFXI and FFXIV. It would be cool if you could switch between multiple types of weapon specialities without having to lvl them to a state of equivalent proficiency. For example, if you are a R50 Gladiator and R30 Archer and you switch between the two, obviously there will be a drastic change in your effectiveness.

I think the Physical Lvl system was supposed to counteract that, but obviously it has been diluted down a lot to give people the sense of progress they needed with the classes we have.

All in all, I think sacrificing the strategy of using a sword and switching to a bow is something I would be willing to make to maintain the armory system. But if you can think of a way for them to coexist...

Perhaps if you could uses macros such as /equip main "instert weapon here" during combat, then the system would be more functionaly. Obviously you'd need to level both weapons to an equivalent lvl to be worthwhile, but FF games were never easy, were they?

And in real life, being proficient in two weapons requires a lot of practice.

Even in FFXI you had to grind the ranged skill up anyway, unless you were using ranged weapons since lvl 1.