My Experience With Alexander Normal Yesterday As A Tank

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Originally Posted by hagare

you're basically saying that it's okay to take 7 other people hostage because explaining something that you don't wanna learn by yourself for whatever reason is okay.
After all, you're a tank and it's "hard" finding a replacement *ego much*.

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It can be a Tank, a DPS, or a Healer. The same rules apply. I don't even know why you'd bring some Classism into this short of having no better argument.

And again, "you dont want to learn for yourself" is completely wrong. He is on the DF of an incredibly easy Story mode content with the purpose of learning. You are asking to "Learn the mechanics of the encounter meant for you to learn the mechanics". Him stating he is here for learning is about the extent of his responsibility.

The other 7 people at this juncture have a choice: To explain, or to do nothing. One takes them extra "work" (And I use the term here loosely, I can do that before he finishes watching his cutscene), the other wastes the 7 other people's time because of wiping. If the other 7 choose to do nothing, then it is entirely their fault for their time wasted.

What you are trying to imply is that by some very convoluted sense of morals is that the fault for the other 7 choosing not to speak up must be of the new player.

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theres more to it than your explanations. if yours held true he should never have wiped in the first place

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Then by all means go into a bit more detail. The success of your run is entirely dependent on it. But if you'd rather wipe because "Typing is oh so dreadful" then that's your own prerogative.

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Originally Posted by Kyros

Oh look, took me about 10 secs per Turn, must be hardz.

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To be fair, I'm not too fond of the A2 "bring them together"....since some of them buff others' defence or magic defence (Hardhelm/Hardmind, respectively).
And in A3, me and my co-tank keep the hand on us only, not the group. And I'd add in 'in last phase, tank swap at X stacks' (substituting X for whatever number of stacks you usually go with).

But either way, it'd be almost equally quick for me to explain tactics in similar shorthand if I DFed in and got a new co-tank who openly said he was new and asked for tips.

Then if we wiped, and it was clear he didn't get a certain part of the fight, I'd clarify that part of it. Like in A1, if the blue beam appeared badly and the new tank didn't think to turn/move the Oppressor and thus ended up cleaving DPSes or otherwise making it inconvenient/difficult to place the adds appropriately.

That said, I'm a pretty patient player. I don't mind explaining things if people are new and ask for tips. I also don't mind wiping several times as long as it's a friendly group and/or we're making steady progress each time. I'm in no way expecting the average DF raider to be equally patient. But neither am I expecting the average DF raider to be good either. Like everything that relies on RNG, you end up with something random and different each time when it comes to party composition (unless the RNG pool is very small because it's off-peak hours). I just think that those who are unwilling to accept that bit should resort to PF instead ^^; Whether it's people who are still learning and end up getting vote-kicked, or people expecting a farm and going off on party-members when things aren't going too well.

Edit: Do I think people should be more patient with new people? Absolutely. But I'm not expecting it of them, sadly.

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Originally Posted by Kyros

It can be a Tank, a DPS, or a Healer. The same rules apply. I don't even know why you'd bring some Classism into this short of having no better argument.

And again, "you dont want to learn for yourself" is completely wrong. He is on the DF of an incredibly easy Story mode content with the purpose of learning. You are asking to "Learn the mechanics of the encounter meant for you to learn the mechanics". Him stating he is here for learning is about the extent of his responsibility.

The other 7 people at this juncture have a choice: To explain, or to do nothing. One takes them extra "work" (And I use the term here loosely, I can do that before he finishes watching his cutscene), the other wastes the 7 other people's time because of wiping. If the other 7 choose to do nothing, then it is entirely their fault for their time wasted.

What you are trying to imply is that by some very convoluted sense of morals is that the fault for the other 7 choosing not to speak up must be of the new player.

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going in blind = fine
not explaining to newbies = fine
blaming either side for not fulfilling your own expectations = not fine

that bolded part = what you're doing.

the only time I say going in blind in DF is fine for everyone, is the first 2 weeks of content launch.
or you're a fast learner, like real fast.

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Originally Posted by hagare

not explaining to newbies = fine.

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It must take a very special kind of person to think of this as being "Fine".

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blaming either side for not fulfilling your own expectations = not fine

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Like I said, it was dumb of him to complain about going blind and not succeeding. But is is even dumber of the other 7 people for wasting their own time by negligence.

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Originally Posted by Kyros

It must take a very special kind of person to think of this as being "Fine".

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it takes a normal person actually.
unless you say yes to every request?

what is special is thinking that everyone should do what you ask them to.
Including asking for explanations.

it's your right to go in blind and it's their right to not explain.

but go ahead, attack me instead of giving an argument if you like :D

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Originally Posted by Kyros

Then by all means go into a bit more detail. The success of your run is entirely dependent on it. But if you'd rather wipe because "Typing is oh so dreadful" then that's your own prerogative.

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how about in a1 saying to ignore adds during emergency deployment so as he does not have them tethered to him either preventing them from being put into position or having the dps take them? or even suggesting dropping tank stance to increase dps after the .5 is positioned making it less likely to hit enrage. if it was a warrior suggesting going back to defiance during the jump if theres a scholar for a shared adlo considering the increase in potency due to defiance.
or a2 kill orders? suggesting if bringing dolls together to V-angle yourself from other tank so as not to cleave them?
a3 voking hand and once again with the V-angle for bane while not taking 2x cleaves a long with other mechanics?
a4 assuming they will be the off tank suggesting to focus target the laser after the first leg dies to know when your going to be sucked away for quarantine? or to avoid healer in last phase because of their debuff and further elaborating by saying in case they do get debuff to not go back on boss because that'll be passed around to main tank and melee dps causing a wipe.
those are minor examples of things you missed which should be noted
edit: also in a4 since it may be hard to see indicators depending on where you position yourself, mentioning balls spawn with discord

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Originally Posted by hagare

it takes a normal person actually.
unless you say yes to every request?

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When the success of my own doings is dependent on the request yes, I will say yes to it every time. After all, I don't want to waste my time, and I don't think any sane person would want to.

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Originally Posted by hagare

it's your right to go in blind and it's their right to not explain.

but go ahead, attack me instead of giving an argument if you like :D

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Like I said earlier. Of course it's their right. But the former is expected. The later is pure idiocy. If I'd weight the balance of who is responsible for what, I think it takes some pretty serious self-delusion to believe that choosing the option that wastes your own time is anything but your fault, regardless of who it was. That one side has 7 people doing this speaks a lot of which side has the most "blame".

I think this wouldn't of been so much of a hot topic, if the OP Hadn't of put the onus of responsibility on the party for "Not explaining it to me." This degree of hand-holding is often what most players really dislike in the Duty Finder, and they want the OP to understand that in the future, he needs to hold himself accountable, too.

Now - could the party have explained it to compensate for his lazy action of just 'queing duty finder and kamikazing" it? Yes, they could have. It'd take possibly about 3-5 minutes (When I explain things to someone, I explain what's relevant to their role. For an MT, positioning on each phase is important, and assisting with dolls is ideal if you see one is loose.) For an OT, it's important to understand how to handle other mechanics - such as Orbs, Lines, and the Healer "No Touch My Body" mechanic work.


Then we still have to discuss strategy. I've seen too many teams wipe because they let the dolls during Phase 2 go wild on the party - something that most parties sorely forget (I love when people eat their words when they say "Just kill adds" and they all go for the healer, detonating the entire party before I get back from quarantine.)

So, OP, instead of,

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Originally Posted by Arabian_Wolf

left the group because they didn't want to bother explaining in short

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Take some responsibility, watch a video before going in. And no, there aren't many spoilers in videos. You're fighting Bahamut in T13? Neat. There's still some awesome story that accompanied that fight going into and out of it, so enjoy watching that.

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Originally Posted by Kyros

He is on the DF of an incredibly easy Story mode content with the purpose of learning.

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Yeah, this is just wrong.
1) Alex Normal is NOT incredibly easy for an average player. It's incredibly easy for an endgame raider, but it's harder content for an average player.
2) It is not MSQ content, as such it is NOT required to do.
3) If you want to do something blind, DO IT BLIND, don't ask for others to explain it. If you want to know how the fight works without spoiling yourself, READ A GUIDE!

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20110817182305

...

I need to buy more popcorn.