More Horizontal Progression please

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Just because you are multiple classes doesn't mean you need to be good at all of them.

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You don't have to, but you should be allowed to.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

Each job needs certain stats to fill a role and every different job that fills the same role needs the same stat.

Vertical=Items don't scale= Player needs to have couple of sets for one role if has three healer jobs at different levels.
Horizontal=Items scale= Player can have one set of gear for one role even if they have three healer jobs.

Horizontal Example: You get a ring with initial stats usable at lvl 15. The stats increase at 20 and again at 30.
Vertical example: You get a ring with initial stats usable at level 15. Then need to own another at level 20 and another at level 30.

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The issue you claim that only vertical progression has exists all the same for horizontal progression. Likewise, the solution that you're presenting as to why the problem doesn't apply to horizontal progression (gear scaling with your character) can be applied to games with a vertical progression too.

Horizontal progression is just an illusion of having choices.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

You don't have to, but you should be allowed to.

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If we're not allowed to then the whole point of the armoury system is moot. The alternative is turn into an alt based game right?

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

The issue you claim that only vertical progression has exists all the same for horizontal progression. Likewise, the solution that you're presenting as to why the problem doesn't apply to horizontal progression (gear scaling with your character) can be applied to games with a vertical progression too.

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It can apply to vertical as you say but not in the same way.

In horizontal the one gear scales vertically as you get stronger.

In vertical the whole progressions is get a gear, new gear comes out replace it, rinse and repeat.
If they scaled the vertical gear it wouldn't scale as you get stronger due to above, it has to be replaced. And if they didn't replace the gear then it is no longer vertical but horizontal.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

So many endgame events...

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There's the issue right there. This game is lacking in credible content now.

With FFXI ( only one I can compare ) the story that got you to the endgame was epic, you felt like you were working towards something. CoP is / was miles ahead on anything that FF14 has produced. When you got to the end what happened? We had variety.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

Horizontal Example: You get a ring with initial stats usable at lvl 15. The stats increase at 20 and again at 30.
Vertical example: You get a ring with initial stats usable at level 15. Then need to own another at level 20 and another at level 30.

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That's not horizontal progression, that's just gear scaling. You can have scaling without horizontal progression and visa versa.

Horizontal:

There are two level 50 tank chest pieces. They're all roughly the same in terms of power, but each is situationally superior to the other.

Let's say Chest A has a ton of accuracy. Chest B has a proc that gives you a shield for 1 second every time you're hit.

Now let's make up two bosses. Boss 1 is very evasive and attacks slowly. Boss 2 is not particularly evasive, but every time it attacks it swings twice. Chest A would be much better against Boss 1, but the accuracy would be wasted on Boss 2. Chest B would let you shield half of Boss 2's attacks, but the proc would be useless on Boss 1, who attacks too slowly.

In the next round of content, there would be more bosses added for which A or B might be superior, or perhaps new chests C or D, along with new items that could be superior for Bosses 1 or 2, or perhaps new bosses 3 or 4. A and B likely remain competitive options though, even once you have C or D.

Vertical:

There are two level 50 tank chest pieces. They're all roughly the same in terms of power.

In the next round of content, chests C and D are added. They're of a higher item level than A and B. Neither A nor B is likely to be relevant once you have C or D (barring constraints like accuracy).

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Originally Posted by Shinsaki

There's the issue right there. This game is lacking in credible content now.

With FFXI ( only one I can compare ) the story that got you to the endgame was epic, you felt like you were working towards something. CoP is / was miles ahead on anything that FF14 has produced. When you got to the end what happened? We had variety.

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This...

The cutscenes were truly meaningful and epic for some. Final fantasy xiv for sure has a different approach but I wonder how this will hold up for the years to come..ilvl 1000 gear?

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Originally Posted by Pyretta_Blaze

Even if it was mostly vertical progression but items are acquired in different content. What happened to accessories coming from Primal EX? We need more content, more options even if we had basically the same equipment.

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The patch that brought Titan/Garuda/Ifrit Ex was my favorite patch! I lived in PF and met a bunch of people. IDK why they haven't done that again. Was so much fun.

It baffles me why "it's bad because you might be required to have certain gear" is even still a thing as defense. I had to finish msq to get to endgame. I had to beat titan hard to get into coil. I had to get my ravana weapon and then get my eso weapon to do alex savage and so did everybody else and nobody batted an eyelid. If somebody managed to get into their alex savage group with their i160 dungeon weapon and didn't get promptly kicked after, please inform me.

So you found out that to do A, you need gear from B. So what's the problem with just going to B and getting it? It's not like B is a once a year holiday event from last year that you now have to pay 10 USD as the only way to get said gear? If anything having A around ensures that B is relevant longer and helps ensure that there's always people around wanting to do it. One of your raid members were having trouble farming ravana on their own for their weapon for your group's first entry to A1S and the appointed date for your group's first entry is looming, what are you gonna do? Tell said member you're gonna try to get the others to help him/her get his weapon so everybody can enter? Or just give him/her an ultimatum before telling to piss off when he asks you for help?

Horizontal progression was one of the main reasons I quit Ragnarok Online. As other people have said, it necessitates having abysmally low drop rates on items to ensure that people don't get their gear too quickly or easily, the end result being that you can grind for a particular piece for months and never see it drop once.

And then once you finally do have it... okay, that's great, then what? You have nothing to aim for because you've already got that piece of BiS gear. It leads to either tremendous stagnation or massive frustration after a while depending on whether you do or don't get the drops you're after.