[dev1032] PUG skills singled out.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

No one's asking for "drastic unnecessary changes". We simply want the be on equal ground with other damage classes. Why do we have MP costs on basic attacks when other classes don't? It's not like they do anything particularly special. You can't really argue it from a buff standpoint because most War class buffs and attacks that buff don't require MP. Why should Light Strike require MP when Featherfoot doesn't? Featherfoot actually has a much greater version of the same effect.

Managing MP isn't the issue either. The issue is that MP costs on these skills are unnecessary and make absolutely no sense. Why are they there? They clearly shouldn't be.

At R50 with 93 Mind I have 479 MP. Sure that's quite a bit but throw Cure II in there along with MP costs from Pummel and Light Strike and it goes pretty quick. I don't think most people playing Pugilist have that much Mind honestly. I only have it that way because I occasionally play mage classes and we haven't received the per-class point distribution yet.

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I disagree. Pummel, Flurry, and Light Strike are all on a separate timer. Do you want them to change this? MP is not that bad, and stop saying it makes no sense. It makes just as much sense as an MP cost on other classes weapon skills or self buffs. It is a fantasy game, maybe if all we could do was simply punch, and dodge out of the way with no special or magical effect (like if this was a simple hack and slash game) then your argument of it making "absolutely no sense" would... make sense. But we don't, so lore wise or whatever you are trying to elude to it makes perfect sense.

We should have a way to natively regen some MP I think, because these abilities are so important in a long fight. I wouldn't get my hopes up though for them to simply remove the MP cost while keeping all of our other advantages (no shared cooldown for one). I'd rather have the MP, because you are right it is manageable.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

I disagree. Pummel, Flurry, and Light Strike are all on a separate timer.

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All the extra attacks are on seperate timers. The MP actions I listed on the previous page are situational or simply used alot less than these PGL specific attacks.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

I disagree. Pummel, Flurry, and Light Strike are all on a separate timer. Do you want them to change this? MP is not that bad, and stop saying it makes no sense. It makes just as much sense as an MP cost on other classes weapon skills or self buffs. It is a fantasy game, maybe if all we could do was simply punch, and dodge out of the way with no special or magical effect (like if this was a simple hack and slash game) then your argument of it making "absolutely no sense" would... make sense. But we don't, so lore wise or whatever you are trying to elude to it makes perfect sense.

We should have a way to natively regen some MP I think, because these abilities are so important in a long fight. I wouldn't get my hopes up though for them to simply remove the MP cost while keeping all of our other advantages (no shared cooldown for one). I'd rather have the MP, because you are right it is manageable.

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arent peirce full thrust and heavy thrust also on different timer?

i dont really get your point,
and the point is light strike isnt trifurcate, it doesnt give us 3 turns worth of dmg, in one shot, and multibuff stacking, it doesnt make us invulnerable, hell id pay 20 mp for speed surge. If there was some reason why the basic skill was so great it needed to cost mp, i would be like ok, but it really isnt that great. we dont get speed surge, we dont get steadfast (increased parry rate, defensive buff, and offensive buff to many WS) we dont get a shield that reduces dmg by like half, and we dont get multishot, and ranged dmg advantage. How is it balanced that pugilist pays mp, for thier basic mechanic, we arent talking about a weapon skill you never have to use here, we are talking about something you will probably need to press every 30 seconds, no matter what your role, and other classes get all that stuff for no cost, and similar benefit.

hell do mages even pay for thier basic attacks?

I'm not arguing the fantasy/magical attack point anymore. It doesn't make sense simply because other classes using similar skills do not require MP. Other skills and abilities that give similar effects do not require MP. Why should a few Pugilist attack skills be singled out in requiring MP? Within the world's rules it doesn't make sense.

What other classes have shared cooldowns on attacks? The only one I can think of is Archer with Light Shot and Close Shot (which isn't even a guild marks gained attack).

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Originally Posted by Arcell

I'm not arguing the fantasy/magical attack point anymore. It doesn't make sense simply because other classes using similar skills do not require MP. Other skills and abilities that give similar effects do not require MP. Why should a few Pugilist attack skills be singled out in requiring MP? Within the world's rules it doesn't make sense.

What other classes have shared cooldowns on attacks? The only one I can think of is Archer with Light Shot and Close Shot (which isn't even a guild marks gained attack).

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not to mention the shared cool down is equal to thier bow delay, ome i have to wait 4 seconds! say hello to 30 seconds chump.

Maybe Chakra is otw for PUG.


In FFT Chakra gave monks HP and MP back.
Something like 25% of your total HP and 20% of your recovered HP with a recast of 3 mins wouldn't be bad.
So if you have 2000HP Chakra would give you 500HP and 100MP back.

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Originally Posted by Holyomen

Maybe Chakra is otw for PUG.


In FFT Chakra gave monks HP and MP back.
Something like 25% of your total HP and 20% of your recovered HP with a recast of 3 mins wouldn't be bad.
So if you have 2000HP Chakra would give you 500HP and 100MP back.

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maybe for monk, but pug isnt monk though. i could see if they reduced the recast timers on the skills, then it would need some other resource to manage it, but its the same 30 30 60 that lnc has.

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Originally Posted by Physic

not to mention the shared cool down is equal to thier bow delay, ome i have to wait 4 seconds! say hello to 30 seconds chump.

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Well Archer's auto attack isn't quite the same as ours. The whole argument here is that we are unfairly punished in comparison with other classes.

I just think if you look at the other classes basic attacks they either aren't as good (heavy thrust and pierce are not as good as flurry or pummel) or they share a timer, which is why we got a minor MP cost. I'd simply rather have an MP cost you can manage rather than a different restriction or nerf in its place that would be far worse for our balance in comparison.

Siphon mp and stygian spikes works wonders on pug i never run outa mp period!

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Originally Posted by Murugan

....I just think if you look at the other classes basic attacks they either aren't as good.....

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Can you explain why they aren't as good as Flurry or Pummel?