When to use Flare?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scarebearz

Lots of people doing the same thing does not mean it's superior to methods used by the few.

---

No, it doesn't you're right.

However, as it has been both explicitly mentioned and more implicitly suggested so far by various players (myself included), the Flare only rotation is not simply better, but significantly better than Fire II spam + Flare.

Therefore, instead of providing detailed testing data just to spoon feed the stubborn folk who wish to stay in their comfort zone, I am perfectly happy inviting them to try it out for themselves and attain enlightenment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

No, it doesn't you're right.

However, as it has been both explicitly mentioned and more implicitly suggested so far by various players (myself included), the Flare only rotation is not simply better, but significantly better than Fire II spam + Flare.

Therefore, instead of providing detailed testing data just to spoon feed the stubborn folk who wish to stay in their comfort zone, I am perfectly happy inviting them to try it out for themselves and attain enlightenment.

---

I have used the Flare only rotation and it's of very little use in any real situation.

In most situations the use of Fire II will provide more DPS, I.e. Bray speed runs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Oh yeah, and don't use Fire 2. Like, ever. As soon as you have Flare, it is obsolete.

---

I don't think I'm the one who needs "enlightenment" :D

Any good BLM will know various AoE Rotations and use most of them on times depending on the situation.

Only using 1 AoE rotation makes you one of the "stubborn folk who wish to stay in their comfort zone".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scarebearz

In most situations the use of Fire II will provide more DPS, I.e. Bray speed runs.

---

Not from what I've seen.

In Brayflox HM you're going to have upwards of 10-15 mobs on the Tank. In the Fire II rotation the Fire III is a HUGE DPS drop. That Fire III will hit one enemy for a few hundred HP. It's a waste. In the Flare-Only rotation there are no single target attacks so every attack is doing several thousand HP damage (a few hundred HP for the first Flare x10 mobs). Think of the first Flare as almost like a Fire II. You're just cutting out the HORRIBLE Fire III damage and cycling Fire II & Flare.

The only SLIGHT lull is the 2 second wait, which is really nothing considering that the alternative is wasting an entire GC on a Fire III attack that does practically nothing.

I really don't see how anyone could try both rotations and ignore the horrible Fire III DPS drop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scarebearz

I have used the Flare only rotation and it's of very little use in any real situation.

In most situations the use of Fire II will provide more DPS, I.e. Bray speed runs.

---

I'm sincerely not sure what you must be doing or seeing that you would suggest a Fire II rotation having superior DPS to a Flare only rotation in Bray. The only scenario I can think of, is things are dying so fast because you're with another competent DPS that after your first few Flares the mobs don't have enough HP to allow you to finish a strong cast. In which case, yes using a weak ass spell that hits them all instead of effectively doing nothing for their remaining little HP would be more DPS in that specific scenario.


What I'm referring to is that your DPS output with the Flare only rotation is significantly higher than with the Fire II > Flare rotation. That much cannot be contested.

With the Transpose timing being significant, there is already reason to keep Fire II on your bar I suppose. If you're in that specific situation where you know your targets will die before you finish a hard cast Flare, then by all means Fire II away.

Point remains, there's no scenario where you would be able to fully finish a Blizzard II/III > Fire III > Fire II x 3 > Flare rotation on multiple targets where Transpose > Flare x 2 wouldn't do more DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

or continue to be stubborn. Your call.

---

Hi pot my name's kettle lol

idk how you can get so many flares off in brayflox, with 2 decently geared blm you can do f3 > f2 > f2 > f2 > sc flare > done. If there is a mob left with a few hp just scathe and be done. If you are getting 4-7 flares off in one rotation in bf hm your dps is in the toilet anyway.

I think this is just one of those situations where you just walk away cause there aint no way someone will admit there are superior or even relatively close methods they don't approve of that exist anyway. Its called a troll and you need to stop feeding it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

idk how you can get so many flares off in brayflox, with 2 decently geared blm you can do f3 > f2 > f2 > f2 > sc flare > done. If there is a mob left with a few hp just scathe and be done. If you are getting 4-7 flares off in one rotation in bf hm your dps is in the toilet anyway.

---

With 2 decently geared BLM, the mobs would die to the initial double Flares with Convert to begin with, or be left with minimal HP.

Honestly now, if the only argument against the Flare only rotation is "shit is dying too fast in this dungeon I'm overgeared for" then by all means, do what you like. Obviously it makes no difference in that scenario.

Go into Brayflox on DF and get a MNk who also plays bad as the only other DPS in party. Then go ahead and try your Fire II rotation on one pack and the Flare only rotation on the other. Then you'll see what I'm talking about.

If the party has uncommonly awful dps, double flare rotation does have it's uses, but Fire II still has it's place even then.

As a BLM almost everything is situational, fixed rotation's regardless are not a DPS gain.

More often than not, it's actually better to (Transpose - Fire III - Flare) than to use the double flare rotation anyway.

A BLM friend was using the flare only rotation, he got another friend (healer) to parse while we did a few Bray, both as BLM and equipped the same i90 gears and weap.

Apparently his dps was at least 100 less for the full duration of the DG.

He now uses some Fire II and his DPS is a lot closer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scarebearz

More often than not, it's actually better to (Transpose - Fire III - Flare) than to use the double flare rotation anyway.

---

W-wait.. what? How can Transpose > Fire III > Flare ever be better than Transpose > Flare > Flare in an AoE environment. You have completely lost me there.

Quote:

---

A BLM friend was using the flare only rotation, he got another friend (healer) to parse while we did a few Bray, both as BLM and equipped the same i90 gears and weap.

Apparently his dps was at least 100 less for the full duration of the DG.

---

That's basically impossible unless he messed up the Flare only rotation - which is not uncommon. I am also assuming these weren't dungeon instance-length parses, but rather parses of individual packs of AoE burns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

W-wait.. what? How can Transpose > Fire III > Flare ever be better than Transpose > Flare > Flare in an AoE environment. You have completely lost me there.

---

Usually after the Transpose the mobs will be under 20% hp, you wont get the 2nd flare off fast enough (it's faster to use Fire III right away on the first tick), so you'll only be hitting with a single flare under Astral Ice.

Again situational, but this situation is a very common one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

That's basically impossible unless he messed up the Flare only rotation - which is not uncommon. I am also assuming these weren't dungeon instance-length parses, but rather parses of individual packs of AoE burns.

---

They were full dungeon-legnth and 3 runs. He said his rotations were fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scarebearz

They were full dungeon-legnth and 3 runs. He said his rotations were fine.

---

Dungeon-length parses are a horrible way to test anything.

I have my personal experiences, testing and the experiences and testing of all my friends, many of which are world-first tier players and very reliable sources backing up the fact that the Flare only rotation is significantly higher AoE DPS.

Even in the scenario that those dungeon-long parses were completely identical (to the timestamp) in every situation other than the AoE pulls, the only plausible reason left for your friend's observation would be improper use of the rotation.