Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by Dervy

The Allagan Cuirass has a 1.937 heavier weight than the Wyrms Mail, which is quite a lot considering the Wyrms Mail is such a strong piece.

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That's too much SS we'll be pumping into our gear. With the Liberato/Pre-T9 accuracy, well be near 493/4 SS @ the T5 accuracy. If we put a Wolfram Helmet on, that's now 511/512.

I know nothing about crafted gear, or their melds. But if you or someone could get me the exact stats for a Max Penta-Melded Wolfram Helm, I'll chuck it in my solver and see what sets it comes out with.

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How does weight affect us? So you are saying stick with myth body over allagan body?

Are you 100% positive you can reach those melds with that helmet? If so, I might purchase one and start messing around with it.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Are you 100% positive you can reach those melds with that helmet? If so, I might purchase one and start messing around with it.

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I own one ^^. But yeah just do the math yourself to get some peice of mind. You get 5 melds. 2 of which are free (ie. not over melds)

Savage Might IV = +6 DET
Savage Aim IV = +9 CRIT
Heavens Eye IV = +9 ACC
Savage Aim III = +6 ACC

It's potentially expensive, but possible.

[EDIT^2]
Could you post what weights you are using and/or verify the following below:
Weapon Damage 8.732
Strength 1
Determination 0.325
Critical Hit Rating 0.204
Skill Speed 0.178

[EDIT]
On i90 Disciples of War Helmets, Hands, and Feet you get the following stat caps:
21 Skill Speed, Critical Hit and Accuracy
15 Determination

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Originally Posted by VaShawn

How does weight affect us? So you are saying stick with myth body over allagan body?

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Stat Weight, not literally, heavier :P

Sorry, I also messed up the weights slightly. If we compare Weathered Astrum Mail, Astrum Mail and High Allagan Cuirass with the Wyrms Mail, we can see:

High Allagan Cuirass has +11.102 weight more than Wyrms Mail
Suit of Astrum Mail has + 2.141 weight more than Wyrms Mail
Weathered Astrum Mail has -3.393 weight less than Wyrms Mail.

That's for 0 accuracy, remember that. The Weathered Astrum Mail, because of it's high accuracy however, can give you an OVERALL higher set-weight, as you can put in other pieces with 0 accuracy to meet the caps. Of course, that's down to the current pieces of gear you have.

Second you get that High Allagan Cuirass, wear it.

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

I own one ^^. But yeah just do the math yourself to get some peice of mind.

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And Augustus, I'm sure that Crafted Gear has meld caps? So that 15 Crit on HQ wouldn't go above 16? Otherwise, with those exact stats you posted, it does show the Wolfram Mask in-slot for 496 accuracy BiS. But.. We get the following SS:

BiS - 460
Pre-T9 w/o Chest - 504
Pre-T9 w/o Belt - 542
PreT9 w/o Either - 542

That's stupidly high. That's a 48+ SS set boost.

542 SS = 2.31 GDC
542 SS + Selene = 704.6 SS = 2.15 GDC

Ye. That's us running out of TP in 2 minutes. That's scarily impressive. I might buy one.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

And Augustus, I'm sure that Crafted Gear has meld caps? So that 15 Crit on HQ wouldn't go above 16? Otherwise, with those exact stats you posted, it does show the Wolfram Mask in-slot for 496 accuracy BiS. But.. We get the following SS:

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16 is the secondary stat cap for ilvl90 belts and something else, i forget, theres a great article on these boards (not this specific one) that breaks it down. It covers stats such as skill speed, critical hit rating and accuracy. Only determination is different with a cap at 11 (i'm sure you've seen this)

21 is the secondary stat cap for ilvl90 helmets, hands, and feet. Determination here is capped at 15.

This is also why i90 body and legs are useless until we get grade V materia because we can not come close to stat capping with only 5 grade IV or below materia. [EDIT] it is much higher with my guess (i never looked this one up personally myself but based on i90 gear) is 34 for secondary stats aside from determination which is probably 24.

Thanks for that piece :) Learn something new every day.

I'm tempted to purchase a HQ Wolfram Mask. Shame they're 1.1m on my server atm. You don't need someone with 390 control or w/e to Meld onto it do you?

Guys I got allagan chest and legs currently. I got 1000 sols. Which I should replace first? I am already over 500 acc with rest of gear(ilvl 91)

Astrum Hose is #1 purchase.

For your next purchase:
If you're working on T6+ and you have Allagan Boots of Maiming (T5), purchase Weathered Gloam Ring.
If you're working on T6+ and you do not have Allagan Boots of Maiming (T5), purchase Weathered Astrum Sabatons.

If you've not killed T5 yet/working on it for whatever reason, get Weathered Gloam Ring.

But, you're still running with i70 accessories. Upgrade them to i90 through Coil Farming, or upgrade them through Soldiery, AFTER Astrum Hose.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Astrum Hose is #1 purchase.

For your next purchase:
If you're working on T6+ and you have Allagan Boots of Maiming (T5), purchase Weathered Gloam Ring.
If you're working on T6+ and you do not have Allagan Boots of Maiming (T5), purchase Weathered Astrum Sabatons.


If you've not killed T5 yet/working on it for whatever reason, get Weathered Gloam Ring.

But, you're still running with i70 accessories. Upgrade them to i90 through Coil Farming, or upgrade them through Soldiery, AFTER Astrum Hose.

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I have all i90 items on both sides(mixed allagan/myth) but I just farmed turn 1 and 2 and got everything for drg. My fc is just now training for turn 4(first coil). I want to be best equipped for training. Atma weapon equipped as well. After hose, which ring I replace with gloam ring? Allagan striker or hero slaying?

Then Weathered Astrum Hose, Weathered Astrum Gauntlets or Weathered Gloam Ring would be good purchases.

For those wanting to figure out BiS and considering crafted gear, here is a bit of useful info I got on Reddit today. I am unable to verify, but I'll leave it here anyway:

Anyway, here are the materia caps (Str and Vit come capped):
Wolfram Mask/Gauntlets/Sabatons: +21 Acc, Crit, Spd, +15 Det
Wolfram Tassets: +16 Acc, Crit, Spd, +12 Det
Wolfram Cuirass/Saurian Trousers: +34 Acc, Crit, Spd, +24 Det

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Thanks for that piece :) Learn something new every day.

I'm tempted to purchase a HQ Wolfram Mask. Shame they're 1.1m on my server atm. You don't need someone with 390 control or w/e to Meld onto it do you?

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Nope, you don't. Any 50 ARM will do.

I splashed out on the mats for em instead. Worked out cheaper.

So, Astrum Hose seems to be one of the best pieces to buy with soldiery. The thing is, my Allagan trousers used to give me a huge boost on accuracy - which is the reason I'm still reluctant to take them. I've already bought Gloam ring, Astrum boots (both of them give slightly more accuracy and are an overall stat weight increase I guess?) and gauntlets. I never found the Allagan mask of Maiming (*sigh*), so my Wyrm's helmet still contributes for accuracy, but I was planning on farming T4 anyway. Not sure how that would combine with Astrum Hose, though, since I'd lose even more accuracy.

Maybe I could fix this with accessories, but I'm not sure if this would result in a noticeable weight loss or whatever. I think I can currently reach over 530 accuracy with all my accuracy accessories stacked (I actually don't have the Allagan ring of striking yet, should I give this a thought?), so maybe even in case I got both the Allagan mask and the Astrum hose I should be capping accuracy. Would this be a good solution?

Consider that I'm still clearing T5, so no access to Second Coil gear yet, although this might or might not change in the next few days. I still plan to cap accuracy for both the coils, at least pre-T9, so that I would be prepared for after Twintania.

You don't need more than 470 acc (realistically, 460) for Coil 1 and Levi/Moogle EX, so you can lose a lot of Acc and be good.

I'm still on T5 (have been waiting on static but I'm getting tired of it so I may just start pugging T5), so I can give some advice for pre-Coil 2 dudes. When gearing for different accuracy levels, I pretty much never take off my myth Body, belt, wrists, and neck. Make sure you have those, and farm the hell out of T1-4 and get pretty much everything possible, there's no reason not to now that it's unlocked. Apart from the body, these myth pieces are not that exceptional, I just happen to rarely swap them out due to how they fit into my accuracy builds. Body is incredible though, I'd say it should be your first myth choice at this point, after that, I'd say helm since it gives you a bunch of accuracy that will help with certain accuracy builds. Extreme primal accessories can be good too, so hopefully you can grab those.

Now when buying soldiery items, I just mix and match my alternate gear to get the appropriate accuracy level (you should be using different gear for different fights, or you're throwing away potential DPS) while having as much determination and crit as possible.

I plan to have soldiery pants, ring, gloves, and boots by the time I'm in Coil 2, with enough gear adaptability to get me up to T9 with the proper accuracy and decent dps weight. However, if you think you'll be able to get your liberator soon, that should be your priority for saving soldiery tomes. My friends are just being goddamn casual goofballs and we haven't made progress in forever, sigh. It really sucks having half a static that is farming all extremes in pug groups, and a few still suck on Titan, lol. No matter how many times I make fun of them, they don't practice (and you can only carry so many people in Extreme fights).

I'd advice to get the moogle EX choker though. The stats. of it is pretty nice as well.

Ah shit I keep forgetting that. Yeah definitely. I haven't bothered with Moogle Mog since I'm still killing Levi multiple times every day waiting on my damn spear. Goddamn RNG.

Right now I have 425 SS With my set up, so I'm glad I didn't go for the weathered mail. Once I start my liberator I think it'll go up again.

With the increase in skill speed, will that have an impact at all on our current rotation? Or will it remain the same and basically chaos thrust gets clipped a bit earlier?

Only time our rotation will change, will be once we're hitting 2.21 GDC without selene (648 SS). At 2.21 GDC, we can also then fit in another skill (Fracture maybe?) in the same frame as the Heavy Thrust buff. Up until that point, I feel we'll keep the same rotation, but it'll give us more room for mistakes, or to move around AOE's etc.

Thanks for the tips :D

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Originally Posted by Zankes

I am I90 drg I do perfectly on bosses like titan ex, because there is only single enemy, but I suck on places like T4 for example. (I might not be that bad) but I'd like to have some opinions.

When there are multiple weak enemies, should I use my DOTs on them or should I just do the TT-VT-FT combo and keep buffs up? Which would be best on damage wise? or should I maybe use my DOTs on other enemy while I do the TT-VT-FT combo to the enemy I am mainly killing?

well anyways I'd like to have some opinions how I should handle weak and multiple enemies as a DRG?


Also my other concern has been when power surge is not up yet should I use jumps ASAP for dps or should I wait for power surge and then jump? Also should I use dragonfire dive for dps?

Also are marauder cross class skills worth of it for the dps?


and lastly. If I mess up my "rotation", because of boss AOE Should I apply buffs asap back when I start attacking again?

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Hard and fast rules:

1 enemy: The Rotation
2 enemies: Keep Chaos Thrust and Phleb applied to both
3+ enemies: AoE rotation (HT>RoT>HT>RoT... or HT>DS>DS>DS...)

Use Jump on cooldown, pair it with Power Surge when possible, but do not wait for Power Surge to use Jump. DFD and SSD should be used for DPS on fights where they are not needed as gap-closers or Stun tools.

Mercy Stroke is "worth it".

Heavy Thrust, Disembowel/Chaos Thrust, and Phleb all take priority. Full Thrust is "filler" and should never be used when other stuff is down except for very short burst purposes.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Full Thrust is "filler" and should never be used when other stuff is down except for very short burst purposes.

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I disagree. Full Thrust should never be used when it's not in a combo action regardless of short burst purpose or not. You're better off doing something else.

Edit:
Or I misunderstood you when you said Full Thrust but you actually meant the whole Full Thrust combo?

I figured that went without saying.

were different positinal acc caps ever confirmed btw? never found a real conclusion to this topic

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

were different positinal acc caps ever confirmed btw? never found a real conclusion to this topic

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Yes, they were. Keep going back a few pages.

My skill speed is on 528 and I didn't even mean to make it that high... What's a good parse on a dummy until TP runs out? There's not many good dragoons on my server and now days they're becoming more and more rare so finding one who actually knows how to play one is kinda rare. Everyone I know who plays Dragoon as an alt gets the same DPS on a dummy.

In full i90, no food no pots (including i90 weapon), you should be parsing 353-5. With an i95, should be in the 360 region, then 370ish in i93.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

In full i90, no food no pots (including i90 weapon), you should be parsing 353-5. With an i95, should be in the 360 region, then 370ish in i93.

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I was at like 350~ with i95 and I'm like 375~ with the i110 weapon.

I mean, maybe you'll get higher if you ignore accuracy and have someone in your party but I'm not getting those numbers.

Guess I'm also a lalafell.

I take it hq button in blanket remains a dragoons best meal for primals/coil fights????

Dummy DPS wise I get between 350-365 range with i91 (gloam ring+ wave harpoon) with 485 acc. no food, no group, no pots. average parse times 4min range before i run dry on tp.

Random question about using the spreadsheet solver:

I'm solving for 495acc with what I have and I'm using the "Compare Score Against" while setting each individual Soldiery piece to see how much it would change. So by default the difference is 0 with the initial armor setup I'm using. Then I enabled the Weathered Gloam Choker and reran the solver and it ended up having a difference of +0.371.....but didn't use the choker and ended up changing other pieces.

Why would it do this? Other pieces show an obvious increase by using the new enabled item, others show no difference by not including the item. But this one shows an increase, but changes items that were already available and not the new item so why wouldn't it use that setup as "default"?

Default Setup = Solved for 495 ACC:
Wave Harpoon
Wyrm's Armet
Wyrm's Mail
Allagan Gloves
Allagan Waist
Weathered Astrum Hose
Wyrm Greaves
Hero's Necklace
Allagan Earrings Maiming
Hero's Bracelet
Allagan Ring of Striking
Weathered Gloam Ring
=696.087, 496 acc, 419 crit, 319 det, 404 speed

Enabled Weathered Gloam Choker (but it isn't selected in the decision variables):
Changes To = Hero's Belt and Allagan Ring of Maiming, the rest are the same.
=696.458, 496 acc 430 crit, 322 det, 388 speed


?

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Originally Posted by Dervy

In full i90, no food no pots (including i90 weapon), you should be parsing 353-5. With an i95, should be in the 360 region, then 370ish in i93.

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Oh, really? Thanks for the numbers. Guess I gotta find out what I'm doing with my rotation then.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

In full i90, no food no pots (including i90 weapon), you should be parsing 353-5. With an i95, should be in the 360 region, then 370ish in i93.

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Am kinda in the same boat. Been looking at what some people are pulling on T8 and where I am falling short. Only i93 ( poor RNG Drops ) and over the course of the entire fight while dealing with only some mechanics on my end, my friend is informing me I am pulling 320-330.
Rotation is staying perfect, not applying full Chaos combo on Dreads because they are never staying up long enough.
Any other feed back from people as to what they are hitting ?
Have seen a few videos with Dragoons in upper 350's

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Originally Posted by zeth07

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You must've selected something wrong, or checked the "enable" in the wrong column. For me, without the Weathered Gloam choker shows the second set you posted with the Hero's Belt + Ring of Maiming (707 weight). Once I enabled the Weathered Gloam Choker, it instantly used it and gave me 497 acc, 431 CRT, 311 DTR, 404 SS (710.403 weight)

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Originally Posted by Taleon

Am kinda in the same boat. Been looking at what some people are pulling on T8 and where I am falling short. Only i93 ( poor RNG Drops ) and over the course of the entire fight while dealing with only some mechanics on my end, my friend is informing me I am pulling 320-330.
Rotation is staying perfect, not applying full Chaos combo on Dreads because they are never staying up long enough.
Any other feed back from people as to what they are hitting ?
Have seen a few videos with Dragoons in upper 350's

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You using ID -> DI - > TT > VT > FT on dreads? Cause you said you're not using Thrust Combo, when ID -> DI is significantly stronger. Keeping your DoTs upped on The Avatar when you switch to dread? You could pull off what we should be doing on Twintania; Setting up the DI on Avatar so your first skill is DI on the Dread, then TTT combo. That'll significantly increase DPS. Maybe you should position yourself so you're always in between where the Dread and the Avatar is, to minimise distance? Keeping 1 jump up maybe if your group is pulling the Dreadknight to the sides, and not pulling to where the MT is?

I can't say much as I'm not on T8, but there could be numerous things why your DPS is lower than it should, all of which can be fixed with very little fine-tuning.

using PH, ID, DIS, TT, VT, FT on Dreads because I normally already have HT refreshed just as they are spawning.
Dread is almost always dead before CT Dot would be ticked even 2/3's the duration. There have been times when I complete the Chaos Chain on boss with CT, but if timed correctly on my end, it has not been needed because I should be reapplying the full Chaos combo on the boss right after Dread is dying.

Dots are always up on Boss full time. At times, which I am working on a loss of HT during BrainJack because I am the one having the attention of the tank, but quickly resolved once the debuff is off the tank.

Is it dead right after the FT or do you need to use any more abilities afterwards? If so, set up the ID on the avatar, and straight away do DI -> CT -> TT -> VT -> FT. That should increase DPS slightly more. Remember, once you've pressed the button for ID the hit will apply. You can run/sprint anywhere right after the hit even mid-animation.

Depends on which Dread spawn, first one is dead at or before FT, later spawns I have more combo lines going off on the Dread, because of the other DPS dealing with Mechanics lowering their DPS at that time.
These are normally the times where I am dropping CT on the boss, as well as PH with a quick target change. Boss and Dread are tanked side by side, so no movement loss

I'm not 100% sure if I read what you mean correctly Taleon, but it is possible to hit HT while being the target of the brainjacked MT, it just requires some very slight positional adjustments.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Is it dead right after the FT or do you need to use any more abilities afterwards? If so, set up the ID on the avatar, and straight away do DI -> CT -> TT -> VT -> FT. That should increase DPS slightly more. Remember, once you've pressed the button for ID the hit will apply. You can run/sprint anywhere right after the hit even mid-animation.

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Timing is slightly off with this,
Last week, I was preloading Dis on Avatar but is almost always left me a three to four sec wait for the Dread. Instead, I would HT > TT > VT swap to Dread ( he is just getting into position at this point ) FT > Ph > ID > DIS > TT > VT > FT on Dread if it is still up, or finish FT on Avatar and go right back into a full Chaos combo on Avatar.