VIERA AND HROTHGAR COMPLAINT MEGATHREAD

The unfortunate thing is it's only the default Viera hairstyles that don't include the hat hair models. The 20+ hairstyles they've added to the race since Endwalker's launch all have the existing necessary assets to enable functional hats. Of course, this is the type of thing I'm sure they would rather do all at once rather than implementing Viera headgear in some bizarre state of half completion where 2/3 of hairstyles function with headgear and the remaining 1/3 don't. That would be even weirder than what we already have where there's at least some consistency with what shows up and what doesn't. When it's fixed it'll probably be fixed all at the same time.

Also echoing the thought that I wish they would more selective when it comes to fitting circlets and bows. They don't test them on enough hairstyles or races and we end up in a situation where even out of the maybe 15% of headgear in the game that works on Viera most of it clips, floats or clips and floats.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

Also echoing the thought that I wish they would more selective when it comes to fitting circlets and bows. They don't test them on enough hairstyles or races and we end up in a situation where even out of the maybe 15% of headgear in the game that works on Viera most of it clips, floats or clips and floats.

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Unfortunately, this is a problem for all races, or at least the ones I have played. Although viera does have some very egregious examples, there are pieces that just simply look better on viera, or rather fit the head better. At least depending on the selection of hairs you may use.

Yeah, the circlet I have on my character right now also floated on female Miqo'te, which made me stop using it at the time.

Also not a complaint, but I just can't help pointing out that I love this hairstyle that I'm using right now. With the highlights it almost looks like flames from the sides (fits my character's name :D ).

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Unfortunately, this is a problem for all races, or at least the ones I have played. Although viera does have some very egregious examples, there are pieces that just simply look better on viera, or rather fit the head better. At least depending on the selection of hairs you may use.

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Yeah, it definitely is a problem on all races and isn't even at its worst on Viera. One of the ones that happens to bug me the most is the blue gemstone bow. It's so pretty, but for how hard I worked for it the fact that it functions on an extremely limited list of hairstyles without severe floating is pure suffering. That, and a big grind reward not even being dyeable is perplexing on all counts. I hope to see this changed one day.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Unfortunately, this is a problem for all races, or at least the ones I have played. Although viera does have some very egregious examples, there are pieces that just simply look better on viera, or rather fit the head better. At least depending on the selection of hairs you may use.

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Hrothgar have really awkward examples as well xD

Glasses are always pushed so far out...

https://i.imgur.com/qtQV1KO.png

...which in turn causes issues with monocles, as they're then just floating glass circles.

https://i.imgur.com/raldEJK.png

Headbands are just floating halos around our foreheads

https://i.imgur.com/brFGpCd.png
I know honey, if I were you I wouldn't want to open my eyes for this travesty either.
https://i.imgur.com/YggSVSl.png

Some accessories are also just casually floating off to the side

https://i.imgur.com/hvyCvw7.png

But the trade-off is that some hairstyles are supposed to be large enough to cover these flaws, I suppose???

But here's the thing. Even that comes with consequences:

I loved this circlet ; _ ;
https://i.imgur.com/1iXOzA3.png

In fact, this hairstyle guarantees I will NEVER see any earring I have on. None.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Hrothgar have really awkward examples as well xD

Glasses are always pushed so far out...

https://i.imgur.com/qtQV1KO.png

...which in turn causes issues with monocles, as they're then just floating glass circles.

https://i.imgur.com/raldEJK.png

Headbands are just floating halos around our foreheads

https://i.imgur.com/brFGpCd.png
I know honey, if I were you I wouldn't want to open my eyes for this travesty either.
https://i.imgur.com/YggSVSl.png

Some accessories are also just casually floating off to the side

https://i.imgur.com/hvyCvw7.png

But the trade-off is that some hairstyles are supposed to be large enough to cover these flaws, I suppose???

But here's the thing. Even that comes with consequences:

I loved this circlet ; _ ;
https://i.imgur.com/1iXOzA3.png

In fact, this hairstyle guarantees I will NEVER see any earring I have on. None.

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Oh, my…. How someone on the dev team could have been thinking “ok guys, this is good, let’s release this !” !??

Have any viera who own it checked if the princess tiara fits now or does it still float a foot of your head? I checked a site once when looking at genderlocked glam and thought "oh my god who approved that" and since theyre degendering more glams, the Prince/Princess sets may be next in 6.4.
I probably wont get it (the princess gown clips hideously on everything due to its size) but we have to see if the tiara still floats that noticably badly

they probably don't put in as much effort because they know the hrothgar playerbase is already very minuscule compared to other races) that's not to say i don't like hrothgar, that's just what census data tells me

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

they probably don't put in as much effort because they know the hrothgar playerbase is already very minuscule compared to other races) that's not to say i don't like hrothgar, that's just what census data tells me

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I'm not sure how true this is anymore. Yes, Hrothgar have been neglected for a long time and still is, but I think the ears controversy was a wake-up call for Square Enix. Ears are back, they stopped giving us tiny heads like they did almost 95% of the time with ShB helmets, a good chunk of the new hairstyles actually fit our heads now..
It seems there's a conscious effort on their part.
Being a Hrothgar now feels much better than it was just a year ago.

EDIT: (Now if we could get SOME NPC representation instead of absolutely nothing, it would be nice.)

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

they probably don't put in as much effort because they know the hrothgar playerbase is already very minuscule compared to other races) that's not to say i don't like hrothgar, that's just what census data tells me

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I'm not sure that's the reason. They seem to try and standardize the placement of these types of items to account for the largest features you can choose on a face, but Hrothgar's sloped forehead and lack of a human nose make the positioning more difficult without it clipping into the face.

It would be nice if they went and had a closer look and adjusted some of them though, those examples Midareyukki showed are pretty dire.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

I'm not sure that's the reason. They seem to try and standardize the placement of these types of items to account for the largest features you can choose on a face, but Hrothgar's sloped forehead and lack of a human nose make the positioning more difficult without it clipping into the face.

It would be nice if they went and had a closer look and adjusted some of them though, those examples Midareyukki showed are pretty dire.

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This is precisely the reason and you can't really win because it'll either clip or float, since characters have a relatively wide range of options that change the head silhouette, they'd need to some reworking of the system to have multiple options depending on customization, but it seems like a lot of work even if they did 3 basic distances.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

I'm not sure how true this is anymore. Yes, Hrothgar have been neglected for a long time and still is, but I think the ears controversy was a wake-up call for Square Enix. Ears are back, they stopped giving us tiny heads like they did almost 95% of the time with ShB helmets, a good chunk of the new hairstyles actually fit our heads now..
It seems there's a conscious effort on their part.
Being a Hrothgar now feels much better than it was just a year ago.

EDIT: (Now if we could get SOME NPC representation instead of absolutely nothing, it would be nice.)

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Loosely related but I just played the EW MSQ again and there's a Hrothgar among the Sharlayan forum members and I could swear he wasn't there before.

https://i.imgur.com/4qpHg6p.jpg

*EDIT* apparently he was always there and I somehow managed to miss him. I'm getting my Hrothgar fanclub card revoked for this. Jokes aside, that begs the question of how could Sharlayan possibly get Bozja/Hrothgar lore wrong when there's one literally on their seat of power lol

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Loosely related but I just played the EW MSQ again and there's a Hrothgar among the Sharlayan forum members and I could swear he wasn't there before.

https://i.imgur.com/4qpHg6p.jpg

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You can look up some Endwalker MSQ videos from around 6.0 release date if you want to cross-reference this scene. I'd help but I feel somewhat unwell so too lazy...

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

I'm not sure how true this is anymore. Yes, Hrothgar have been neglected for a long time and still is, but I think the ears controversy was a wake-up call for Square Enix. Ears are back, they stopped giving us tiny heads like they did almost 95% of the time with ShB helmets, a good chunk of the new hairstyles actually fit our heads now..
It seems there's a conscious effort on their part.
Being a Hrothgar now feels much better than it was just a year ago.

EDIT: (Now if we could get SOME NPC representation instead of absolutely nothing, it would be nice.)

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A brand new trust for 7.0 that is a Hrothgar and not another godsdamned scholar would be a breath of fresh air.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Jokes aside, that begs the question of how could Sharlayan possibly get Bozja/Hrothgar lore wrong when there's one literally on their seat of power lol

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Clearly it's because his family has been raised in Sharlayan for generations, so they don't know how the normal social structure for Hrothgar is. This is partially me joking, and partially me coming up with a logical reason to explain it.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Clearly it's because his family has been raised in Sharlayan for generations, so they don't know how the normal social structure for Hrothgar is. This is partially me joking, and partially me coming up with a logical reason to explain it.

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This was my headcanon also. That some Hrothgar there are Xth Generation Hrothgars, with little to no contact with their former country or culture.
Allegor is still right though xD Okay so you tell me that the bastion of all knowledge can get right so many things for about as far, remote and isolated as Garlemald and Doma, but they can't spare a thought for Bozja where an entire race lives?
To quote a certain fun Final Fantasy protagonist:

https://media.tenor.com/mDJz60EA5WgA...rigin-jack.gif

Apologies for the profanity.

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

they probably don't put in as much effort because they know the hrothgar playerbase is already very minuscule compared to other races) that's not to say i don't like hrothgar, that's just what census data tells me

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Fun fact about your race, the Male Vieras: When the Hrothgar Ear fiasco was going on, I checked and posted on these forums a fun little image. You know what the census data told me? That months after your implementation you did not outnumber us. Hrothgar outnumbered Male Viera. The numbers are higher now and have been since at least October 2022 (might have surpassed it earlier), which is fine, but don't think that you weren't a massive minority even below us for about half a year despite all the hype built around you. And yet you guys had more updates than we did for years before you could actually, properly outnumber us. And I checked as well. We outnumbered others on Active Players at Endgame as well, just not Male Viera.

It's not just "oh you're a minority". You were one once too, and still got the devs to work for you.
Half a year of being an actual minority with the only majority being your female counterpart? Gets updates.
Three entire f***ing years of absolute silence and being told we're a minority all the time? No update, and the one update we get squishes our heads and sends our ears into the void.

I'm sorry to grinkadboy, I'm not against you. But to hell with the argument that we're a minority, and therefore justifies no further focus on us, honestly. Even if the statement itself is true, it's clear SE doesn't see it as justification. Not in practice.
Sure, you can say "We were just implemented, so it's to be expected". But given the hype? And given how we waited for years only to have it be a handwave? It just doesn't seem fair.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

I'm not sure how true this is anymore. Yes, Hrothgar have been neglected for a long time and still is, but I think the ears controversy was a wake-up call for Square Enix. Ears are back, they stopped giving us tiny heads like they did almost 95% of the time with ShB helmets, a good chunk of the new hairstyles actually fit our heads now..
It seems there's a conscious effort on their part.
Being a Hrothgar now feels much better than it was just a year ago.

EDIT: (Now if we could get SOME NPC representation instead of absolutely nothing, it would be nice.)

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I did make a post on this thread a while back. Specifically about asking where we now stand and what our feedback should focus on, rather than constantly focusing on the stuff that's already been resolved. There's still work to be done, and Hrothgars having a bit more relevance and representation would be nice. Otherwise yeah, SE did realize chopping our ears was very unfortunate, and that has gotten fixed.

To be fair, I can't check the post because it's buried under a lot of trash, and the image is undated. Imgur doesn't help either. I'm not going to expect people to believe it simply out of my word, so feel free to dismiss the image itself.

And if it looks like it bothers me, it's because it does. Because I don't like half-assing stuff when I try to explain why I'm upset at things that are constantly regurgitated at the Hrothgar race all the time that ends up devaluing us and excusing dev oversight and quality assurance. Again, the person saying it doesn't bother me, they probably aren't even doing it out of malice. But the argument itself bothers me, and so many people have used it in an effort to discredit our feedback.

Overall? Kazhar is right: Hrothgars have had more and better updates, and we've now established a pattern for what we can expect in the future.

I feel that what we need the most is our lore being further explored and taken seriously. Because saying one thing, and then going like "Ah but your lore no longer counts because of a technicality" is ridiculous. The same goes for Vieras who, unlike us Hrothgar, only have the intro to an Alliance Raid to explore ANYTHING involving their lore. And you know what that is?

Fran looking at Orbonne Monastery and be like "Ah yes, my sisters guard this place, but it's nefarious".

....amazing worldbuilding right there on a race who definitely deserves a bit more than just "We guard these scary doors".

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

...amazing worldbuilding right there on a race who definitely deserves a bit more than just "We guard these scary doors".

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To be fair they are at least consistent between the shards, the Vii's from the first also guarding scary doors.

But in all honesty, I am 100% in favour of more lore about them, both Hrothgar and Viera deserve better representation. We already have a lot of lore on Miquo'te (from the U tribe in Thanalan, the M tribe in the Peaks of Gyr Abania and some lore of the G tribe from G'Raha, I may be forgetting more, but these are the ones that came to mind atm), Au'ra (with Xaela having the Steppe and some representation in Ishgard if you do the DRK quest and Raen having the underwater city and Thavnair), Elezen (Having both Gridania and Ishgard), Lalafel (with Ul'dah) and Hyur (them being everywhere).

I would like the other races to have some time to shine, like visiting the Roegadin homeland and learning more about their culture. Venturing through Dalmasca and learning more about the Viera of the Source. And possibly try to salvage the burning dumpster that is Bozja, by giving it to a good and passionate writer that doesn't want a torture fest (would use the other terminology for it, but I will be put on the naughty list). Maybe visit the Bozjan resistance and see how are they doing, you know out of courtesy for helping ASAP during the final days. ... Just saying...

Want to know what I want? For us to reach the New World and encounter a tribe of Hrothgar living there, in a location that looks eerily similar to Cosmo Canyon (because why not?).

don't worry, i didn't take it personally. i can tell you're a passionate sort of person and it's that passion from you and others like you who helped them realize that hrothgar needed more work. i'm just speaking to the logic se probably has when dealing with this stuff. they plan their patches a certain way so you don't really see much course correction until later in the expansion, and even then it's only a half measure until the full measure happens at the next expansion's launch. something that kind of bugged me about viera lore too is how coincidentally viera culture is identical on the source and on the first. they might do something later down the line is what they were doing with the raen au ra is sticking them in places (terncliff in the shb trial questline, as well as thavnair) to expand them more.

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

don't worry, i didn't take it personally. i can tell you're a passionate sort of person and it's that passion from you and others like you who helped them realize that hrothgar needed more work. i'm just speaking to the logic se probably has when dealing with this stuff. they plan their patches a certain way so you don't really see much course correction until later in the expansion, and even then it's only a half measure until the full measure happens at the next expansion's launch. something that kind of bugged me about viera lore too is how coincidentally viera culture is identical on the source and on the first. they might do something later down the line is what they were doing with the raen au ra is sticking them in places (terncliff in the shb trial questline, as well as thavnair) to expand them more.

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Maybe :o I mean, one of two options is possible:
1 - Viera lore is written around Ivalice, in which case they can expand it with further explorations of Ivalice or have more data when we visit other locations with Viera and expand how they do things
2 - Viera lore is broad and Ivalice is just their quickest example. Meaning though the basic gist of Viera lore remains the same elsewhere, we'll see more to Viera than just Golmore Jungle.

Either way? It's already been established that other races are widespread through the world. We haven't yet visited Meracydia nor the New World, so it's entirely possible we'll see different settlements there.

Question is, will they really? Because while those for sure would be lovely, and the inclusion of Raen in Thavnair was definitely new and broke away a bit from what they've established about Yanxian-only Raen, this sort of exploration would really help boost the races they've since added. Give them more relevance and story. They really just need to take the chance.

My hopes for 7.0 regarding both Hrothgar and Viera are:
- Full compatability for all past, present and future hairstyles
- More compatability for headware, even if it's not all, allowing some variety in the styles would be nice + preferably all mogstation hats
- Au'ra, Viera and Hrothgar NPC's in the starting zones, (even if they cannot be interacted with)
- More Hrothgar and Viera representation in both the MSQ and Side Quests.

Quick question, but you guys know the Legacy mark? The tattoo thing that Louisoix branded on you by accident when he teleported you into the future at the end of 1.0?

Where would it display on Hrothgar characters? Because now I'm curious: it it's under the collarbone tuft, it's just covered up.

Assuming you'd want to display it altogether, why didn't the devs just move the thing xD

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Quick question, but you guys know the Legacy mark? The tattoo thing that Louisoix branded on you by accident when he teleported you into the future at the end of 1.0?

Where would it display on Hrothgar characters? Because now I'm curious: it it's under the collarbone tuft, it's just covered up.

Assuming you'd want to display it altogether, why didn't the devs just move the thing xD

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It's a tramp stamp. It's on the small of their backs.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

It's a tramp stamp. It's on the small of their backs.

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thats a mod, its on the back of the neck like everyone else.
Course if you happen to be a legacy player who enjoys face1gar, you cant use Runar racial hair bc it totally vanishes but thats why Legacy marks should be optional face tattoos or smth any hairstyle that isnt boringly short will disappear your sweet tat

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Originally Posted by XianRo

thats a mod, its on the back of the neck like everyone else.
Course if you happen to be a legacy player who enjoys face1gar, you cant use Runar racial hair bc it totally vanishes but thats why Legacy marks should be optional face tattoos or smth any hairstyle that isnt boringly short will disappear your sweet tat

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Ah, my apologies then. That's what I got from google image searching.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

Ah, my apologies then. That's what I got from google image searching.

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if it were real Id invent timetravel just to go make Generic Middie no.664537789 in this game in 1.0 to have a tramp stamp on my dude eons later.
Course I wear almost nothing that exposes the lower back but still

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

Ah, my apologies then. That's what I got from google image searching.

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'-' Yeah, Google isn't exactly helpful. Especially not nowadays. If you want confirmation, you go Gamerescape or some source that doesn't use mods ^^;

Source: My daft arse trying to look for a cute glamour for ages until people told me it was a modded jacket.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

'-' Yeah, Google isn't exactly helpful. Especially not nowadays. If you want confirmation, you go Gamerescape or some source that doesn't use mods ^^;

Source: My daft arse trying to look for a cute glamour for ages until people told me it was a modded jacket.

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what glam?

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Originally Posted by XianRo

what glam?

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Oh that was ages ago, idek what I put on google xD But it was a piece modded onto the Uraeus Coat.

Edit: Found it:
https://i.imgur.com/zRTa30U.png

I really wish we had more stuff like these, especially from Hingashi.

I know this is not the place to say it and that we literally just got the not-yakuza outfit from Tataru and 2 open shirts from Island Sanctuary....but God I wish we got more skimpy male outfits like that.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Oh that was ages ago, idek what I put on google xD But it was a piece modded onto the Uraeus Coat.

Edit: Found it:
https://i.imgur.com/zRTa30U.png

I really wish we had more stuff like these, especially from Hingashi.

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Their abs are more defined and textured than the face xD wonder if that awaits us in 7, or at least some nipples for the men xD

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...0301/image.png

I know this probably happens on other races, but goodness. :D

Been happening for Miqo'te for a long time now, it's just slightly less obvious with the smaller ears.

Add bulge slider to Hrothgar.

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...0301/image.png

I know this probably happens on other races, but goodness. :D

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That one in particular does float pretty bad on a lot of styles, or at least what I checked. Part of the reason I haven't bought it yet.

At least yours are close enough to the face...

https://i.imgur.com/7DhOmfh.png

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

I know this probably happens on other races, but goodness. :D

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Viera hairstyles clipping through the ears has always massively bothered me. These are race-specific hairstyles for a race with distinct and consistently placed ears high on the head. Why does every single hairstyle have a horizontal parting that clashes with those ears?

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Oh that was ages ago, idek what I put on google xD But it was a piece modded onto the Uraeus Coat.

Edit: Found it:
https://i.imgur.com/zRTa30U.png

I really wish we had more stuff like these, especially from Hingashi.

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Off topic but this is the stuff I want for males. More sexy outfits that suit their physique. Not just female glams refitted for males. :( (Looking at you Gold Saucer bunny outfit)
Also chest hair as an option pls!

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

Off topic but this is the stuff I want for males. More sexy outfits that suit their physique. Not just female glams refitted for males. :( (Looking at you Gold Saucer bunny outfit)
Also chest hair as an option pls!

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Fukuro, if we do get such outfits for males, then please, take some screenshots for research purposes, thank you.