Please do not lock Jobs to the Weapon Class that unlocks them.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

By having some Jobs that can have more allowed classes than other Jobs, you create a built-in mathematical imbalance that would have to be compensated for. Otherwise, you get Jobs that are more versatile than others, making them more valuable in a party (case in point RDM/WHM vs. WHM/BLM in FFXI). The Development Team would have to balance that out, since they imposed the arbitrary limit in the first place, and implied that any combination that they dictated should be effective at something.

But if there are no restrictions, the Development Team does not have to (though they may still want to) balance the various combinations out, because they never officially endorsed any particular one. If you decide to play a Lancer with a Paladin Job, it's completely OK for you to suck. SE probably won't do anything to make you comparable to a Gladiator with the same Paladin Job.

If however, SE says you are allowed to play Gladiator, Marauder, and Lancer with the Paladin Job, now they have to make sure that all three combinations are balanced because they dictated it.

That's why restrictions and dictates cause MORE balance issues than letting players decide what should and should not be combined.

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i can say the same thing about letting everyone be everyone they have to balance every job for every class and make sure everything is well balance overall vs just balance it for 1-2class

I'm going to make another Monster Hunter analogy here considering I think it actually fits.

In Monster Hunter Tri, without a doubt the Lance out damages every other weapon, allows users to block almost any block-able attack and even gives them a counter move. There are videos out there of people soloing Deviljoe with it easily. A lot of the people who want to kill things fastest use groups of all Lancers. But in light of this you will still see people using every weapon class in the game (even Sword and Shield with it's low damage and reach) regularly.

The reason for this is that each weapon is fun to use and has it's own distinct play style. Sword and Shield despite having low damage and reach offers high mobility as well as the ability to block. Great Swords while slow and cumbersome have a charge up move that can deal massive damage and they can block and roll. Hammers can stun monsters and deal respectable damage but have no block ability. I could go on but I'll stop there. When people ask on MH boards "What's the best weapon?" the general response is: There is no best weapon, it depends on the situation and your play style.

The point is there will ALWAYS be a class or a group of classes that people consider "best". There is no way around this. The way to get people to play and invite other classes though is to make them viable in a unique way and of course fun to play. As long as each job has a purpose and something it does well then there is no "best" for all situations. That's what it sounds like they're trying to do with the job system, unique party roles for each job.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

By having some Jobs that can have more allowed classes than other Jobs, you create a built-in mathematical imbalance that would have to be compensated for. Otherwise, you get Jobs that are more versatile than others, making them more valuable in a party (case in point RDM/WHM vs. WHM/BLM in FFXI). The Development Team would have to balance that out, since they imposed the arbitrary limit in the first place, and implied that any combination that they dictated should be effective at something.

But if there are no restrictions, the Development Team does not have to (though they may still want to) balance the various combinations out, because they never officially endorsed any particular one. If you decide to play a Lancer with a Paladin Job, it's completely OK for you to suck. SE probably won't do anything to make you comparable to a Gladiator with the same Paladin Job.

If however, SE says you are allowed to play Gladiator, Marauder, and Lancer with the Paladin Job, now they have to make sure that all three combinations are balanced because they dictated it.

That's why restrictions and dictates cause MORE balance issues than letting players decide what should and should not be combined.

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This exactly.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

i can say the same thing about letting everyone be everyone they have to balance every job for every class and make sure everything is well balance overall vs just balance it for 1-2class

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Except that SE is not obligated to make every Job balanced with every Class if they don't dictate restrictions. SE does not have to maintain the illusion of balance between Archer-Paladin, Pugilist-Paladin, Lancer-Paladin, Marauder-Paladin, and Gladiator-Paladin. Archer-Paladin can totally suck compared to Gladiator-Paladin and SE wouldn't have to do anything about it.

That's because the player community would pretty much give a collective "Duh, of course! What else did you expect??". That would also hold true of Marauder-Paladin vs. Gladiator-Paladin. One may edge out the other in some aspect or another, but SE does not have to keep them balanced, because they let you have the entire gamut of possibilities for Paladin ... both great and not-so great.

Once SE states there can only be Marauder-Paladins & Gladiator-Paladins, they MUST keep the two balanced because their statement/restriction implies one should be as effective as the other. If one becomes more effective as a Paladin than the other, it invalidates the entire premise of having the restriction in the first place (i.e. to prevent not-so-great Class-Job combinations). So SE would have to constantly keep the two balanced.

Now multiply that constant balancing act across all the SE restricted Class-Jobs combinations ... versus ... having no restrictions and only nerfing two or three overpowered Class-Job combinations.

One may disagree with the policy of nerfing, but it is far easier and more efficient than re-balancing entire subsets of classes and jobs whenever a new Job or Class or Ability is introduced.

Yeah, I want to be a Red Mage again and still have the option to switch between swords and staves depending on what playstyle I feel like at the time. I know I switched them around often in XI, especially if I was going to be aiding in the melee (sword) or just standing back nuking/healing (staff).

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Except that SE is not obligated to make every Job balanced with every Class if they don't dictate restrictions. SE does not have to maintain the illusion of balance between Archer-Paladin, Pugilist-Paladin, Lancer-Paladin, Marauder-Paladin, and Gladiator-Paladin. Archer-Paladin can totally suck compared to Gladiator-Paladin and SE wouldn't have to do anything about it.

That's because the player community would pretty much give a collective "Duh, of course! What else did you expect??". That would also hold true of Marauder-Paladin vs. Gladiator-Paladin. One may edge out the other in some aspect or another, but SE does not have to keep them balanced, because they let you have the entire gamut of possibilities for Paladin ... both great and not-so great.

Once SE states there can only be Marauder-Paladins & Gladiator-Paladins, they MUST keep the two balanced because their statement/restriction implies one should be as effective as the other. If one becomes more effective as a Paladin than the other, it invalidates the entire premise of having the restriction in the first place (i.e. to prevent not-so-great Class-Job combinations). So SE would have to constantly keep the two balanced.

Now multiply that constant balancing act across all the SE restricted Class-Jobs combinations ... versus ... having no restrictions and only nerfing two or three overpowered Class-Job combinations.

One may disagree with the policy of nerfing, but it is far easier and more efficient than re-balancing entire subsets of classes and jobs whenever a new Job or Class or Ability is introduced.

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Sorel you really should just re-write my first post for me xD

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Except that SE is not obligated to make every Job balanced with every Class if they don't dictate restrictions. SE does not have to maintain the illusion of balance between Archer-Paladin, Pugilist-Paladin, Lancer-Paladin, Marauder-Paladin, and Gladiator-Paladin. Archer-Paladin can totally suck compared to Gladiator-Paladin and SE wouldn't have to do anything about it.

That's because the player community would pretty much give a collective "Duh, of course! What else did you expect??". That would also hold true of Marauder-Paladin vs. Gladiator-Paladin. One may edge out the other in some aspect or another, but SE does not have to keep them balanced, because they let you have the entire gamut of possibilities for Paladin ... both great and not-so great.

Once SE states there can only be Marauder-Paladins & Gladiator-Paladins, they MUST keep the two balanced because their statement/restriction implies one should be as effective as the other. If one becomes more effective as a Paladin than the other, it invalidates the entire premise of having the restriction in the first place (i.e. to prevent not-so-great Class-Job combinations). So SE would have to constantly keep the two balanced.

Now multiply that constant balancing act across all the SE restricted Class-Jobs combinations ... versus ... having no restrictions and only nerfing two or three overpowered Class-Job combinations.

One may disagree with the policy of nerfing, but it is far easier and more efficient than re-balancing entire subsets of classes and jobs whenever a new Job or Class or Ability is introduced.

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I can get on-board with this argument. I think I'm like Cairdeas ... I think more in terms of logic and structure than in terms of people's perceptions (which I just don't get :confused: )

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Originally Posted by Amineri

I can get on-board with this argument. I think I'm like Cairdeas ... I think more in terms of logic and structure than in terms of people's perceptions (which I just don't get :confused: )

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it's about realism Final Fantasy have some type of realism and rule they follow yes each game have it own rule and some even break rules made from other Final fantasy but the main point SE is getting with ffxiv is realism. Look how much work they did into the world to get realism each gear in the game you can tell what it made of.

Now how Realistic is to see a PLD without a cape or sword? some use hammer but really don't think they add hammer as a Wep in the game. How Realistic to see a Monk use a G.K?

Allow Jobs to use more wep if it fit with there job Monk= Hand to hand and staff RDM=Staff,sword Samurai= G.K,Polearm,bows PLD= Sword,Great Sword Warrior = Sword,Great Axe, one hand-axe. But don't allow everyone to use everything

Like i said before if unlocking a job is at level 30 class then i just level up 1 class to max level and each one to 30 and i have all jobs max level 50 without level up the class pass 30 even if am gimp with spell i still got enough to party with.

Get ready for major deception if you think those jobs will be this sophisticated.

I still think they'll only be a visual way (AF + some few exclusive skills/traits) to define playstyles within a class.

New classes in future expansions will prolly be what bring new weapons in.

I honestly can't WAIT for new weapon classes~!~!

weird staff engine - arcanist
pistols/rifles - musketeer
whip - flayer
scythe (war scythe as cair put it to differentiate from harvesting scythe) - dunno what to call it
clubs - enforcer
GSD - dunno
GKT - dunno
katana learning dual wield - assassin
instruments - bard

Then combine that with a job system where jobs can use multiple weapons = a very customizable system for players. Like jumping like drg with hate altering abilities? feel free to use plm, scy, gsd, GKT each with their own flavor

Red mage with enhancing magic/heals/nukes, can use sword/daggers, staves, pistols each again with their own flavor.

dark knight with their usual drains and dark magic, on swd, scy, gkt, plm

<3 love something like that, lets you play a specialized role, but on different weapons(classes) of course SE will choose what can be cross classed and what can't though, I have no problem with that