Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

I don't agree with you, people who care meta is really really low, people used to play what they enjoy, if people play WHM and its really boring, or hard RNG scripted they wont play WHM, but if WHM is fun and you can complete any kind of content with WHM, they will play WHM. (People running world first or speed run are pretty know of meta, so they know what to play)

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Being able to complete it doesn't matter if no one is inviting you to begin with.

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Originally Posted by joannaluttrell

Being able to complete it doesn't matter if no one is inviting you to begin with.

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No one is inviting you ? wtf ?

Do you really thinkg that every party on DF or RF or FC's party wont allow WHMs? are you really thinking that?

This kind of comments is tuning this post into a BIG JOKE.

Also don't forget players will kick just for "Different playstyles" Hell I already see so many childish players "Ha this Healer is Whm kick" "DIfferent playstyle" - Which is really Vague. Also yes i seen Whms be kicked from 24mans, 4mans, 8mans Nm runs after the Embargo had ended. Hell I even know a Whm main who cleared all of Coil and Alex prenerfs get the message "You may be forced to change come SB, If you wish to stay Whm you will have to find another group."

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Originally Posted by Feidam

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we can only HOPE it is salvaged. as of right now, a lot of people are going "well WHM and SCH are both standing there while AST is singing "Anything you can do i can do better"...." and this is before all the SB stuff, this is on HW numbers alone. there's been a lot of feelings of being left behind, the SCH wasn't left behind this expansion so much...but...hopefully the changes since the media build will not make this as bad.

it was a fiasco, yes, but if something 2 months out of Release feels "lacking" by those that got to play it early, Streamers that the community watches and values their opinion and they say that a class looks like it's got a bad outlook because of it...of course the community is going to get anxious, some even furious and some freaking out. that's how it goes. we trust the guys in the Media Tour team. we trust their insight.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

I don't agree with you, people who care meta is really really low, people used to play what they enjoy, if people play WHM and its really boring, or hard RNG scripted they wont play WHM, but if WHM is fun and you can complete any kind of content with WHM, they will play WHM. (People running world first or speed run are pretty know of meta, so they know what to play)

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It's been proven that many people take these "metas" as Gospel. There have been people actually being pressured to change away from WHM. this was around 3.4. that's how far back this has gone. not saying that there aren't WHMs that haven't cleared savage content, but they're running with statics that they have had since the beginning of HW (or even from ARR).

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

Also don't forget players will kick just for "Different playstyles" Hell I already see so many childish players "Ha this Healer is Whm kick" "DIfferent playstyle" - Which is really Vague. Also yes i seen Whms be kicked from 24man, 4mans, 8man Nm runs after the Embargo had ended. Hell I even know a Whm main who cleared all of Coil and Alex prenerfs get the message "You may be forced to change come SB, If you wish to stay Whm you will have to find another group."

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This. this right here is the issue. people are already trying to push the WHM out of a lot of stuff, they're kicking them. Regardless of what we know, regardless that there will be changes, there are issues. issues with the build that was shown. Enough that many in the community have become jaded and see WHMs as nothing desirable.

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Originally Posted by Saraphin

we trust the guys in the Media Tour team. we trust their insight.

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If you trust them and they said "Development footage subject to change" like 1 million times, why did you think that every piece of content from Media Tour will be the same at the release?

Just after Media Tour info comes out i read things like "I have canceled my Pre-Order of Stormblood becase WHM...." you know that every piece of content that you have seen was subject to change so...what the hell are you doing? just stupid people...

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

If you rust them and they said "Development footage subjetc to change" like 1 million times, why did you think that every piece of content from Media Tour will be the same at the release?

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Yes, we all know that it may (will) be changed, however, if you look at what they were given, major changes would have to be done to fix what everyone saw. Changes that many who actually work in programming cannot see being changed in TWO Months.

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Originally Posted by Saraphin

Yes, we all know that it may (will) be changed, however, if you look at what they were given, major changes would have to be done to fix what everyone saw. Changes that many who actually work in programming cannot see being changed in TWO Months.

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I work in programming and i can say that numbers can be tweak in minutes, procs % can be tweak in minutes...Will SE does WHM give a new hard utility skill like SCH Crit or like AST Balance before 4.0? no, they wont, but again, meta is not the point here.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

I work in programming and i can say that numbers can be tweak in minutes, procs % can be tweak in minutes...Will SE does WHM give a new hard utility skill like SCH Crit or like AST Balance before 4.0? no, they wont, but again, meta is not the point here.

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i'm not talking Numbers and Proc %s, i'm talking Skills (which will take awhile, unless they simply reflag a skill that was taken away) and abilities.

The Point is that WHMs have had a lot taken and the return, as see by tooltips and Dev footage, isn't enough to do more than seem to downplay one of the Most Iconic classes in the Final fantasy series and make it...lacking, to be understating.

Edit: for those wanting me to reply, i've hit the Post Cap, i will attempt to reply as much as I can when it gets reset.

Yeah, who cares about all of the concerns that the job is getting a bunch of abilities stripped from it, having several of those holes replaced with nothing, and getting what presently sounds like awkward and potentially boring additions to your mechanics for the next ten levels? People in here are just mad they won't be some frivolous 1% meta, that's the problem. /s

Meta doesn't just get pulled out of somebody's posterior. It exists because of power disparities between jobs. Being out of meta is a symptom of other issues.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Yeah, who cares about all of the concerns that the job is getting a bunch of abilities stripped from it, having several of those holes replaced with nothing, and getting what presently sounds like awkward and potentially boring additions to your mechanics for the next ten levels? People in here are just mad they won't be some frivolous 1% meta, that's the problem. /s

Meta doesn't just get pulled out of somebody's posterior. It exists because of power disparities between jobs. Being out of meta is a symptom of other issues.

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Meta will exist ALWAYS for ever and ever !
is it bad? NO, its a consequence, we have different jobs so we will have a meta comp ALWAYS.
If your favourite job is actually out of meta that means NOTHING out of world progress or speedkills groups.

I wouldn't mind if they took Divine Seal back. Like, at all. Synastry had a unique additional effect (give that back, too) and SCH already has both Fey Illumination and Dissipation so it's not like they were crippled without healing potency buffs or anything.

I wonder if the plan is to have bosses spam more AoE and make divine seal and bigger heals more valuable, maybe?

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I know not a dev response but my thought process is basically MP sustain for healing and DPS. Assize @ 60s, Lucid Dreaming @ 90s, Thin Air @ 120s, and Freecure procs (which are not only infinitely MP efficient but will also generate Lillies for the WHM). Getting a 10% reduction to Assize's recast would mean you get to use it more often than Aetherflow (arguably - since they have Quicken Aetherflow but even that's a low proc chance).

I have no idea how the fights will be designed but at a lark the MP kit for WHM is shaping up to the best of the three healers if current tooltips are to remain. Time will tell if that remains true or not.

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Not really. I only blow Assize on cooldown now because I'm overgeared and never need it for healing anyway. With Omega prog, you will want to keep Assize for a quick aoe heal, meaning any cooldown reduction becomes meaningless if you've already planned ahead you want Assize up for a certain mechanic. That's the fundamental issue with a lot of these changes. The devs seem to think we play reactionary when we're playing preemptively.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings!

First off, thank you all for the continued feedback regarding the upcoming changes to white mage in Patch 4.0. We've been reading through it all and sharing it with the team. -snip-

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Thanks for listening. I'm really hoping you guys and gals pull through for release or failing that, soon after.

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Originally Posted by Saraphin

Well, on Ultros (and a few others have said here) WHMs are already getting kicked from things like Weeping City and Dun Scaithe. what we want is to not be afraid of even being kicked from The 24 man raid, which is looking more and more like it might happen.

And Ex Primals could be considered "raids", not Savage raid levels but 8 man raids of sorts.

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To be fair i've never seen any WHMs being kicked in HW no matter what content, 24man casual, primal or savage.
Ppl might not be happy to see WHMs especially if you have no AST (cards <3) and in SB it might be even worse cause of SCHs "mini"-litany (WHM should get it and not a SCH with overpowered fairy)... but i play quite alot and i've never seen anyone kicking a WHM just because he's a WHM.

There'll always be a best setup and no way to perfectly balance everything, META mindset is bad and players can deal with it.. but to kick "wrong" classes is absolutely disgusting.
Glad its no issue on EU

"WHM need more direct damage reducing utilities! (like Fey Covenant or Bole, etc)...."

Why?.... Is there any AOE damaging mechanic in game that WHM can't handle with a co-healer? Or is there an AOE mech that an AST/SCH can handle but both WHM/SCH and WHM/AST can not handle (or the latter two comps struggles with in comparison:confused:)?

If you can think of an AOE dmg mech that puts WHM WITH IT'S CO-HEALER at a disadvantage to that of AST/SCH. List it for our betterment....

Then of course I'll attempt to break the mech down with actual game data (parses, videos, potencies, etc) to demonstrate why you're misinformed.





There is no AOE dmg in game a WHM (with it's co-healer) struggles to effectively mitigate. So giving WHM another direct dmg utility (on top of eye 4 eye) would not be filling a gap (we'd appreciate it for sure but we're not in NEED). WHM (with it's co-healer) has no AOE dmg mitigation issues--retroactive mitigation (aka HEALING) is still mitigation.

(The only kind of AOE damaging mech that would put WHM at a disadvantage would be a mech that required both healer to directly reduce the incoming dmg ON TOP OF PARTY MITIGATION [storm's path, delirium/dragon kick, Redmind, etc]....and that kind of mech isn't in this game so....)





P.S. for the trolls: if this is making less and less sense to you maybe it's because this is going more and more over your head:cool:

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Originally Posted by Rikku1987

To be fair i've never seen any WHMs being kicked in HW no matter what content, 24man casual, primal or savage.
Ppl might not be happy to see WHMs especially if you have no AST (cards <3) and in SB it might be even worse cause of SCHs "mini"-litany (WHM should get it and not a SCH with overpowered fairy)... but i play quite alot and i've never seen anyone kicking a WHM just because he's a WHM.

There'll always be a best setup and no way to perfectly balance everything, META mindset is bad and players can deal with it.. but to kick "wrong" classes is absolutely disgusting.
Glad its no issue on EU

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Anyone who says the fairy is overpowered doesn't actually use it. It frequently has positioning concerns due to the short range on most of its actions, its abilities all have long cooldowns (120 seconds for both illumination and covenant), it's extremely slow to actually apply its buffs (whispering dawn can take as much as 5-6 seconds before it is actually applied once the order goes out), it is incapable of doing anything while moving, and it's difficult to get it to keep focus on a priority target if other party members are taking damage. It's an extremely useful tool and it's a really fun class mechanic to be able to play with, but it's largely there to cover abilities the SCH itself does not have. Embrace is effectively a double-strength regen for free, this is true (300 potency vs regen's 150, same rate of "tick" every 3 seconds assuming no other fairy activity), and it is also a fantastic way to split enmity for the SCH, but it isn't a make-or-break deal. No one actually says "we need a SCH for double-strength regen effect".

It does have party synergy, though, either among healers (both gain the benefits of Eos's divine seal effect) or DPS (Selene's buff), and while both party buffs are useful, neither are actually very notable.

Just putting this out here, since the word META has quickly became a buzzword that everyone throws out without any thought.

Something being Meta, and something being raid relevant are two completely different things. Right now, from what we currently know, WHM isn't very raid relevant. It offers no utility and no synergy with any other jobs. On top of that, it's new heals are behind a RNG gate and even then it's tied to two of the most basic heals that WHMs in particular strive to cast less because of their very strong OGCD heals. This new system not only forces you to cast Cure/II, but it also forces you to use your OGCDs LESS in order to benefit from the lily CD reduction.

*Double posting because I'm on mobile

No one serious about raiding is going to take a healer who's power in healing is tied to RNG, on top of not offering any useful tools to the raid. It's not about WHM being the "best" for a group. It's just not competitive in any way. There's nothing a WHM offers that will turn players heads and make them go "wow, I want that power in my raid team!".

And we haven't even got into the system not being fun in the slightest. That's an entirely different issue.

Just to add on, the potency may read 300 but its really not, a single embrace cast is 2800 ish at max gear a single whm regen tick is 2100 ish give or take 100 in either direction due to how this games healing formulas work. So its not quite twice as potent at all. If it were potency for potency it would be doing more like 4100 per embrace, the equivalent of the base heal on an adlo.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Not really. I only blow Assize on cooldown now because I'm overgeared and never need it for healing anyway. With Omega prog, you will want to keep Assize for a quick aoe heal, meaning any cooldown reduction becomes meaningless if you've already planned ahead you want Assize up for a certain mechanic. That's the fundamental issue with a lot of these changes. The devs seem to think we play reactionary when we're playing preemptively.

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I would make the argument that a WHM could have the foresight and if they understand the fight well enough and can see how it's evolving and make the appropriate changes to their rotation. IE, using Assize on an earlier raid buster then use Medica on the following one or using Tetra on an earlier tank buster and have Cure II primed for the following one, etc etc.

I will agree that Assize is slightly different as it doubles as a DPS ability too and you would want to attempt to save it for additional add damage if it's coming up.

Even without Assize being on a shorter cooldown I'd still argue that WHM's MP feels more sustainable than the others due to the changes to the DPS (more single target direct damage spells, hurting SCH the most) and the adjustments to LA and Aetherflow. If AST starts to use Ewer more often it means their DPS utility via Balance is reduced to compensate.

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Originally Posted by MsTanya

Just to add on, the potency may read 300 but its really not, a single embrace cast is 2800 ish at max gear a single whm regen tick is 2100 ish give or take 100 in either direction due to how this games healing formulas work. So its not quite twice as potent at all. If it were potency for potency it would be doing more like 4100 per embrace, the equivalent of the base heal on an adlo.

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I'm gonna have to go check on this right now! This never crossed my mind! :)

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

This new system not only forces you to cast Cure/II, but it also forces you to use your OGCDs LESS in order to benefit from the lily CD reduction.

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Here is yet another example of things said that make no sense..... First off this new system (as far as we know now) doesn't FORCE you to do anything (with the one exception of Divine Benison MUST have 1 lily minimum, and arguably if we still had Stoneskin it would cost the equivalent of a Cure II). Secondly it doesn't promote you use your cds less....you can use all your cds exactly when you want to use them AND potentially get a slight/significant recast reduction.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

*Double posting because I'm on mobile

No one serious about raiding is going to take a healer who's power in healing is tied to RNG, on top of not offering any useful tools to the raid. It's not about WHM being the "best" for a group. It's just not competitive in any way. There's nothing a WHM offers that will turn players heads and make them go "wow, I want that power in my raid team!".

And we haven't even got into the system not being fun in the slightest. That's an entirely different issue.

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Which of WHM utilities (gcds and ogcds and traits) are tied to RNG that you would otherwise DEPEND on? Confessions??? Freecures??? Overcure?? B/c those are the only completely Dependent on RNG skills WHM has in its toolkit....sooooooo.....what are you talking about?? Everything else WHM has will absolute activate at the listed recast time OR LESS......

your CDs' POTENTIAL to be available sooner isn't the kind of RNG that CRIPPLES anything............ What you could have argued instead is : in a well scripted fight, where you have all your cds mapped out for each mech, having your CDs being available sooner will pose no benefits (but also poses no detriment...); making "recast reduction," useless to YOU (well planned player that you are). :)





P.S. for the trolls: if this is making less and less sense to you maybe it's because this is going more and more over your head:cool:

I am going to place some suggestions I think would add utility while keeping in heart the white mages image.

Purifying Waters
Ability
Cast: Recast: Range: Radius:
Instant 120 30y 8y

Deals water damage to all enemies near target with a potency of 600.
Additional Effect: Restores HP of target and all party members nearby target.
Cure Potency: 600
Additional Effect: Removes a single detrimental effect from target and all party members nearby.

Note: Potency could scale with the amount of lilies. In that case start at 150 for potency and when you have 3 end in 600. Recast time should remain though.

• It should cast with a visual effect similar to Terras flood in Dissidia.
• Adds a much needed powerful water spell.
• Wouldn't miss melee DPS like Cure III.
• Benefits WHM in Solo for DPS.
• Unable to single target or spam esuna yet mitigates its need.

Faith
Ability

Cast: Recast: Range: Radius:
Instant 180 30y 0y

Deals unaspected damage to target enemy with a potency of 300.

Increases targets magic damage by 30%
Duration: 20s

Note: Cannot target oneself.

• A powerful holy style spell single target.
• Solo DPS benefit.
• Party Utility.

Hope
Ability

Cast: Recast: Range: Radius:
Instant 240 30y 0y

Aura of hope encases target and Increases targets enmity generation for each action. Increases all healing spells and abilities cure potency on target by 50.
Duration: 30s

Additional Effect: Grants one confession.


This would help any party that's trying to do large pulls both to stop others from being attacked and let the WHM focus on whatever needs attended to meaning you can focus on healing that Ranged DPS/Caster that's about to die either due to the tank losing enmity or them attacking to soon. Yet it wouldn't be able to be spammed and used on every pull the tank does.

Enhanced Raise II
Any target raised is raised at full health no weakness

If we are to be the most powerful healer than we shouldn't be raising with weakness in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

*Double posting because I'm on mobile

No one serious about raiding is going to take a healer who's power in healing is tied to RNG, on top of not offering any useful tools to the raid. It's not about WHM being the "best" for a group. It's just not competitive in any way. There's nothing a WHM offers that will turn players heads and make them go "wow, I want that power in my raid team!".

And we haven't even got into the system not being fun in the slightest. That's an entirely different issue.

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This is completely false info. The healing power of the white was not tied to rng. An element of it yes, but there is plenty of power without the lillies. This is the type of hyperbole that hurts a class. The new abilities were tied to rng and that isn't so hot, but the whm still had plenty of oomph. And now it has at a minimum less rng with cure 2

Something else not mentioned here, at least that I saw, besides the new abilities being boring, and gated behind RNG. The new gauges, so far, have all been a way to measure your performance and track how your doing or track things that need to be maintained. The current Lily system, along with the gauge. With White Mage its the exact opposite, because the only way your gauge fills is either luck the rare time you actually have to heal something without regens or ogcd abilities. The only other time you would actually have lilies to spend is if you are playing the class in the literal least efficient or worst way possible. No other job has that pitfall, terribly designed abilities aside.

I'd just like to throw my two cents in here, as someone who has been playing conjurer/white mage since 1.0.

Here are some changes I think would help the lilies system:
1. Have abilities consume 1 lily per ability, and reduce the potency (10%?)
2. Have the lilies affect healing potency rather than cooldown reduction.
3. Allow any spell to build lilies, at a reduced rate (15%?) - Cure/Cure II reduced as well for balance.

This would allow white mages to have a system sort of like Aetherflow stacks, that can be used slowly over time, or all at once for emergency healing. The healing potency would be nice, but not required to maximize ability efficiency, and it would reduce stress in managing the lilies. It would also encourage players of all skill levels to be casting spells continuously, whether attacking or healing in order to build lilies and make use of them. It would still suffer from the RNG factor, but hopefully tweaking those numbers would get it to somewhere comfortable.

Casual reminder that no matter how unjustified, pre-emptive, or unreasonable it is, WHM players are going to get kicked out of duties more and more with this revamp and the only way to stop that is to change it. Trying to blame WHM players for people votekicking them isn't going to get you anywhere, and trying to convince the playerbase at large to stop votekicking jobs they see as non-contributors is going to be like screaming into a hurricane. WHM's current build does not work with how the game is played, and the only practical way to fix it is either replacing WHM's build, or replacing FFXIV's playerbase with robots.

That's similar to my thoughts, though I think using three lilies to empower your next spell is something with a lot of potential that's at least worth exploring.

I do think that most people's complaints aren't that lilies are in any way crippling, it is just that they're functionally almost useless. I am okay with some of the role changes, but the core issue is that the "pure healer" class isn't even the best "pure healer" anymore and doesn't get anything to make up for it.

Yoshi-P has confirmed that Cure 2 has a 100% chance to generate a lily.
Still would love if they gave us stoneskin back and made stoneskin2 useable in battle to have some aoe mitigation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...lily_with_100/

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Originally Posted by Feidam

This is completely false info. The healing power of the white was not tied to rng. An element of it yes, but there is plenty of power without the lillies. This is the type of hyperbole that hurts a class.

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That was an exaggeration, yeah. What I should have said is all of their new healing tools are tied to RNG and the use of Cure/II.

You have the option to ignore everything WHM got for SB (save Stone IV and Thin Air), but then what did we improve on? We're just the same as we were in 3.0, maybe with a bit more MP Regen now. We were already being kicked to the side in Creator. If we haven't changed at all, what's going to stop that from continuing now? Even worse actually since the other healers evolved further...

Really, the only question that needs to be asked is: is the opportunity cost of casting 3 Cure IIs instead of 3 Stone IVs to get 20%/12s off of (your oGCD of choice) worthwhile?"

My gut feeling says "not in the slightest".

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I do think that most people's complaints aren't that lilies are in any way crippling, it is just that they're functionally almost useless. I am okay with some of the role changes, but the core issue is that the "pure healer" class isn't even the best "pure healer" anymore and doesn't get anything to make up for it.

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Certainly not crippling, but we obviously want to maximize our potential as much as possible. The current system would widen the gap between skilled players and unskilled, and even skilled players would find themselves subject to rng.

Something folks need to keep in mind, all this WHM discontent started brewing after the live letter. We all saw that screenshot of Yoshi P's hotbar and the Role Abilites and we could all count what was missing and the gaps in our kit. At the time we hoped that our new 60-70 skills and traits would provide some sort of boon and a lot of us hung our hopes on the lily system making it all worthwile. When we got the media reveal of a lackluster lily system, an RNG based capstone, and confirmation that our best utility mitigation skills were gone with a only one of them getting a buffed but harder to use replacement..that's when it all exploded.

We dumped hate on the lily system in hopes of making it an answer of any kind. But what we really need are new skills. Something to put us back on level footing with our peers. Not more healing, not more personal dps, but some skills to support our party in whatever content we seek to attempt.

We don't want to be better. We just want to be balanced.

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Originally Posted by Saraphin

Well, on Ultros (and a few others have said here) WHMs are already getting kicked from things like Weeping City and Dun Scaithe. what we want is to not be afraid of even being kicked from The 24 man raid, which is looking more and more like it might happen.

And Ex Primals could be considered "raids", not Savage raid levels but 8 man raids of sorts.

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I call bull crap on this. I have yet to see anyone kicked for anything other than being afk or going link dead. I've even been in runs where other groups healers are keeping bad groups alive, rezzing their healers and no one has been kicked. This content (especially weeping) isn't hard and it really doesn't matter what the group make up is.

It has been happening. it's been said earlier in this thread that people are getting kicked from WC, getting kicked from DS, we had a blow up last night in the Novice Network because a WHM got kicked 5 minutes into a dungeon. this is really happening. if you want to not admit it or not, it's been noted here on this thread that WHMs are getting kicked.

So you have never seen it. that's good, but others are seeing it. we're noting it down that it's happening. You can say Bull if you want, but this is happening. people are being excluded for playing White Mage, for whatever reasons, without reasons sometimes, other times, it's harassment of "Play AST or Q as DPS" (again, far earlier in this massive thread.)

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Originally Posted by Rikku1987

Ppl might not be happy to see WHMs especially if you have no AST (cards <3) and in SB it might be even worse cause of SCHs "mini"-litany (WHM should get it and not a SCH with overpowered fairy)... but i play quite alot and i've never seen anyone kicking a WHM just because he's a WHM.

There'll always be a best setup and no way to perfectly balance everything, META mindset is bad and players can deal with it.. but to kick "wrong" classes is absolutely disgusting.

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It is disgusting, and the problem is, we are seeing it. we're worrying, Mentors are trying to calm Returners and Sprouts Alike (at least on Ultros) someone has noted in an earlier post that they were told "You will have to change from WHM in SB or find another group". this is where people believing that "meta" is "Gospel" because a select few use this compositions.

This also goes back to things "Why Bring a WHM when you can have Chain Stratagem and Balance?" that's been posted. i'm not saying good things might not be coming from WHM, but with what was released, the toxicity is growing as more and more people think that WHM is inferior. (RAW current numbers show that they can be, not posting them again, do your reading folks)

I'm glad the EU servers are doing well and aren't having this issue. I'm not shocked it's started on NA servers, but we can only hope to wait it out, hope something changes and it doesn't become worse.

Edit: (forums, decide if you want to let me post or not..please)

I saw your post Mahkii, and i'm sorry if it came off as rude or vindictive. it just seems that many are taking that stance. I'm not taking a shot at you or anything...but for some reason i can't post.

Lego: I play on Ultros. I play on an NA server. it wasn't a Jab as I'm American. it's more of a statement of sadness.

To the WHMs who argue that they never cast Cure II, is that only when you've mastered raids? How about Progression when you are learning raids? When tanks take huge damage from TB and Autoattacks like in A12, you Tetra them and let Regen tick--fine, but Tetra is a long recast. What do you do in the meantime? How about when learning fights especially when you're not at max ilvl?

They say the build is from late April and skills will change - I understand. Are the potencies or the effect of the lillies going to change? One of those has to, because 4-20% cooldown reduction isn't worth anything. 15 seconds or so off a skill isn't going to change its usage, because healing is about using abilities when needed, not holding them until we get 3 lillies. This is proven by the fact that spear is AST's "throwaway card;" no one wants CDR.

WHM's entire new job mechanic is just AST's worst card - and it's single use. Using an ability (as of the April build) uses all lillies in your gauge. It's worse than spear! That's such a slap in the face...

If the CDR was more potent, say 25% for 1 lily, 30% for 2 and 50% for 3, that would be worthwhile. That would make sacrificing GCDs and MP to fish for procs somewhat viable. You may think those percentages are high, but it's not like it's +30% damage dealt, or +15% attack speed.

Would be crazy to give a healer those.

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Originally Posted by Saraphin

This also goes back to things "Why Bring a WHM when you can have Chain Stratagem and Balance?" that's been posted. i'm not saying good things might not be coming from WHM, but with what was released, the toxicity is growing as more and more people think that WHM is inferior. (RAW current numbers show that they can be, not posting them again, do your reading folks)

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Maybe this should have been clarified sooner. When I raise the question about The Balance and Chain Stratagem, this question is from the context that applies to people I play with. Loyalty towards playing a single or specific job is not a setback for us. Our members have assigned roles, rather than assigned jobs. Inside raid, we play whatever job in our role we think is going to be the most useful for our group. In PUG groups and dungeons, those rules don't apply. We have lower expectations from people we don't know, and I think its more reasonable to be that way. Also, we don't treat most content in the game the way we treat raids with our inner group. This is a situation where context matters.