AOE Toggle Needs to GO

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I'm a troll now, and always have been.
Funny because I actually want the game to be better.
It's also humurous ya'll cry "troll" at anyone that shows opposition of the majorities opinion.

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Nope, called you a troll because you said that you were "happy" that everyone else is annoyed by this change. By definition you were trolling.

That and we've been punching holes in your argument this whole time, and you seem incapable of acknowledging it. I find the whole "opposition" of toggle hilarious, and I love destroying your arguments left and right. Knocking the "imbalance" crutch out from under you every time you bring it up is just so easy.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

Nope, called you a troll because you said that you were "happy" that everyone else is annoyed by this change. By definition you were trolling.

That and we've been punching holes in your argument this whole time, and you seem incapable of acknowledging it. I find the whole "opposition" of toggle hilarious, and I love destroying your arguments left and right. Knocking the "imbalance" crutch out from under you every time you bring it up is just so easy.

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I know right? Makes me one happy mi'qote on the inside.
And NO that was sarcasm. I was pointing out that I'm happy they are making their own decision and hopefully stick with it.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

it's going to be that same after the change. if they make aoe its own spell people will use aoe only version of the spell and say forget the single. if you want a challenge and feel you are just spamming aoe cure then fix it. there is a thing called turning aoe off and only using the single spell.........oh wait you realize that would hurt your gameplay so you don't. you complain, but as soon as they add the aoe version of each spell i am willing to bet you use only that version. if that wasn't what you were going to do you would already be doing it with aoe off all the time.

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I already stated the reason why they should change, you obviously didn't read further into the discussion. Who's next in that tag team to slap me around?

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I know right? I just love being slapped around like your little b*tch. Makes me one happy mi'qote on the inside.
And NO that was sarcasm you twit. I was pointing out that I'm happy they are making their own decision and hopefully stick with it.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Who's next in that tag team to slap me around?

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HOLD IT!

I'm just here to refute your argument. If your logic is full of holes, I will be happy to point it out, and when you're trollin' I'll be equally happy to call you out.

Don't take it personally, it's the interwebs.

And back on topic -

My stance:
SE, if you don't have any better ideas, keep toggle. As has been pointed out a million and one times to no real opposition, -aga is the same as toggle but worse, so why create extra work for yourselves only to please a few incompetent players? However if you have something new up your sleeves, I really hope you are prepared to show it off or describe it soon, considering this is a sweeping game changer to every mage, and a possible major nerf.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

HOLD IT!

I'm just here to refute your argument. If your logic is full of holes, I will be happy to point it out, and when you're trollin' I'll be equally happy to call you out.

Don't take it personally, it's the interwebs.

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I still don't see the 'holes' in my logic. You didn't even reply to the fact that you don't have to worry about mp consumption unless it's a NM.
The only thing ya'll called me out on was saying I'd still choose the AoE over the single target.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

You didn't even reply to the fact that you don't have to worry about mp consumption unless it's a NM.

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We'll have to wait and see what patch 1.18+ brings--but I think it highly unlikely that the issue of MP consumption (or, rather, the lack thereof) will change drastically when they remove the toggle button. Besides MP consumption and the ability to toggle AoE-on-or-off are only circumstantially related. There is no direct correlation between the ability to toggle and MP consumption. Although, I agree--MP consumption rules are something that need to be addressed, but it deserves its own discussion thread.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I still don't see the 'holes' in my logic. You didn't even reply to the fact that you don't have to worry about mp consumption unless it's a NM.
The only thing ya'll called me out on was saying I'd still choose the AoE over the single target.

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Sure I did. That's a class balancing issue, not a toggle issue. MP/Hate balancing I can dig, I'm all for that. However whether or not we can toggle, it would still be an issue. Hence why it has nothing to do with toggle, and is otherwise off topic.

Like I said, balance crutch.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

Sure I did. That's a class balancing issue, not a toggle issue. MP/Hate balancing I can dig, I'm all for that. However whether or not we can toggle, it would still be an issue. Hence why it has nothing to do with toggle, and is otherwise off topic.

Like I said, balance crutch.

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No No NO. If there is near infinite MP consumption, it would affect AoE toggle if it was on or off. People will still use the AoE spells if they do not fix hate, the amount of mp consumed, and the amount of damage/heal it actually does. So in a way, yes it does.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I still don't see the 'holes' in my logic. You didn't even reply to the fact that you don't have to worry about mp consumption unless it's a NM.
The only thing ya'll called me out on was saying I'd still choose the AoE over the single target.

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no i was just pointing out that if you have an issue with the aoe all the time cures there is already a system in place to correct that issue. just toggle it off. the mp managemen/ hate / and all the other issues would still need to be fixed if they added new spells. that was the point. the issues now can be fixed inside of the existing system without removing it.

i think many, including myself, would like to see aoe and single have different mp costs. that could be fixed without adding twice as many spells to contend with. it will also have to be done with the addition of new spells.

hate on aoe should generate more hate, but once again, that could be done inside of the existing system and would still need to be done with the individualized spells.

forgetting what version you are using as in single or aoe could be fixed by adding a set icon next to the name of the mage that is like a green cirle that is grey when aoe is off and green when aoe is on. that way it would be visual all the time.

my point was that as it sits now the system is pretty good, but could use some tweaks. the difference is i would rather the system be tweaked which would be faster and easier for the development team to do than it would be to remove and add something completely new.

just the single addition of the new spells would not actually fix any of the problems that are there now. it would just make them deal with them at a different time. if they fixed the issues and did the new system wouldn't it have been easier to just add the tweaks to the system in place and still have the same result much sooner?

i was not meaning it as an attack on you personally.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

No No NO. If there is near infinite MP consumption, it would affect AoE toggle if it was on or off. People will still use the AoE spells if they do not fix hate, the amount of mp consumed, and the amount of damage/heal it actually does. So in a way, yes it does.

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You're right in that Hate, MP, and damage spread need to be addressed, BECAUSE we have a near infinite supply of MP. NOT because of toggle. If people still lean on toggle after adjustments, then they will a) die from aggro b) waste all of their MP and subsequently die because their entire party just wiped and c) have no friends.

Basically if the game is balanced right, whether or not we have toggle we will still have AoE, and nothing is stopping people from spamming AoE as long as we have it. By your logic the solution would be to take AoE away all together, because it has nothing to do with using toggle, and everything to do with spamming AoE - Which is still avoiding the fact that the issue you keep bringing up is an issue of balance, not whether or not AoE toggle is an effective means by which to use AoE spells, and is basically off topic. I don't mind if you want to lean on that crutch, though, you just aren't making any valid points against toggle when you do.